5.4L supercharged V8 vs EQC running costs

[markjay]

My Suzuki Vitara has a small tank... when full, the onboard computer shows just under 300 miles remaining. My EV shows (in summer) 340 miles. However, this is probably because both cars are driven mostly in city traffic, if I used them for motorway journeys the Vitara range would go up while the EV rage would go down.

 

[philnewmerc]

You've used the family emergency situation as a reason to reject EVs several times now. The last example being your need to drive 200 miles at 70mph to attend to your aged parents and stranded teenagers.

No. I have not used that as reason to reject EVs. I have said an EV does not suit me at the moment for various reasons, e.g. I like driving at 80-90 mph on long trips. (This is not a criticism of you.)

It’s a laughable excuse in a country where most of us can’t drive 200 miles at 70mph

Not true for me PERSOANLLY (please not that word). I have just covered 430 miles home and hit lots of 95 mph stretches to make excellent time of 6.5h with a splash n dash for a fuel top up. Travelling at 65 mph to conserve EV range would absolutely do my head in. (This is not a criticism of you or EV drivers and I know this will get better in time ok .)

Open your mind to what’s going on around you. The world’s changed. Your prejudices are wrong.

I am not prejudiced about EVs I just haven't drunk the coolaid you have: in some ways they are superior and some ways not. For me PERSOANLLY (please not that word) they don't suit me yet for all the reasons I've stated, the most basic being it'd be very hard for me to charge overnight cheaply, I get no tax benefits purchasing, and the cost on a trip would be similar to the petrol. (Don't shout at me, just do the maths for an EV traveling at high speed.)

Yes, I’m stuck in a 5.5 litre estate, doing three pan-European trips a year, but it won’t always be so, because depreciation is opening up EV’s to me. (And I’m very aware that fewer Brits drive to Europe than 20 years ago. It’s cheaper to fly)

This is the crux of it. You say you're "stuck in a 5.5 L V8" until cheaper EVs will mean you too can trundle along looking at your predicted range. My response is I love being in an effortless V8 with a big tank of fuel on a long road trip. I dislike flying and like the romantic thought of zooming along, 8 cylinders in a balanced vee pushing, air con soothing, and going off piste to explore the scenery without a moments care for range. Of course EVs are part of the future, but at the moment this trip is not an option without driving compromises, which I PERSONALLY (please not that word) don't wish to do yet. (NB 65 mph is not zooming in my book.)

I have had a close relative fall to his near death. (A coma that lasted four months before we switched him off). And I have had teenagers that needed a lift home. None of these journeys would have been slower, or “out of range,” in an EV. It’s childish to suggest that they would be.

This is patently not true. Still not a reason in itself not to have an EV but it would concern me if an EV was my only car. Maybe your relative died of boredom waiting for you to arrive?

The days of midnight races around the 120 miles of the M25 (in an hour) or 130 mph blatts down the A3 disappeared a couple of decades ago.

I don't live near London and I regularly cruise at 90+ mph, it's very easy if you have a camera alert system. I suppose this is why we differ: for you the EV is not much slower, but for me it'd feel very slow.

There are real reasons not to buy a new EV. There were real reasons not to buy a new AMG CLS. Focus on the facts, not nonsense that can be easily disproved.

Nothing I've said seriously has been 'disproved' and I have stated very clearly that EVs make a lot of sense for many people and I respect that. Unfortunately you stating that an emergency motorway run to the other end of the country at speed in an EV would not be slower than petrol is an obvious howler that any EV driver will tell you is nonsense.

EVs aren’t going away, no matter how much you rant against them. First World Governments have ordained them and the Auto industry is being fined into submission.

You are reading an anti-EV stance because you're so sensitive about criticism of EVs. There are good and bad points to EVs and they suit/don't suit some people. That's it.

Just be aware of what they can and can’t do, and why, for many people EV’s will make enormous financial sense, and for others they simply won’t.

I have already stated and explained why they make financial sense for many and not so much for others (including me), but this seems to have been missed by you. That's it.

 

[philnewmerc]

Yesterday I had a good chat to my two brother in laws who both have a Tesla - one has a Model 3 and one has a Model Y.

The BIL with a Model 3 has done more than 31,000 business miles in the last 12 months, you read that right. He was apprehensive at first about driving such long distances on business, but it was company policy at the business he joined.

He said that with the benefit of real life experience he can say that using the Tesla Supercharger network means that there is ZERO compromise when travelling long distances. He said there are only advantages, the biggest being that he always setting off “brimmed”.

He still has a Discovery for my Sister in Law but I suspect that will change when they next replace my SIL’s car.

The Tesla network and the superchaging speed is amazing.
But, I assume he will be ravelling at 70 mph max because the risk to his career of speeding is massive? (and the range will plummet).
If he travelled at 80-90 mph regularly I think the comprise would become more apparent? (I never see speeding EVs)
This is not me poo pooing EVs, his testimony is perfectly valid, but this is for a law abiding driver, not a high speed enthusiast driver.

 

[philnewmerc]

Again this is wrong…

In the U.K. they have only opened up sites which had surplus capacity having looked at the usage data. Only a limited number of sites in the U.K. are currently open to other marques…

I’ve never so far had to queue for a supercharger stall at an ‘open to all site’… as these are the less busy sites anyway.

P.S. when on a trip, the car will always route you via chargers which are less busy/free and it will route minimising stopping time at busy sites to reduce queue formation.

Other marques also pay a high rate per kWh or can subscribe to a monthly membership to unlock a cheaper rate.

As a Tesla owner I initially wasn’t happy with the decision, however I realised it had been done in a way that minimises inconvenience by keeping the more busy sites in the UK exclusive - it also makes sense in the grand scheme of things with the Tesla Mission of ‘accelerating the worlds transition to sustainable energy’….

Tesla (ignoring the nob who runs it) does seem to be the best EV choice from efficiency to supercharger network. I think the 'S' may well be my entry to EV ownership in 10 years (assuming I've moved house and have a drive).

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The Tesla network and the superchaging speed is amazing.
But, I assume he will be ravelling at 70 mph max because the risk to his career of speeding is massive? (and the range will plummet).
If he travelled at 80-90 mph regularly I think the comprise would become more apparent? (I never see speeding EVs)
This is not me poo pooing EVs, his testimony is perfectly valid, but this is for a law abiding driver, not a high speed enthusiast driver.

I would imagine that he cruises on the motorway at 70 mph because it’s the speed limit on a UK motorway. He did say that he hasn’t had to change his style of driving since he sold the BMW 140i he had before.

I drive on the UK motorways a lot and cruising at 90-95 mph is unusual rather than the norm. I would say that possibly 98% of the traffic is travelling at around 70 mph +/-10 mph, in daylight hours at least.

Maybe travelling at night in the far North it might be possible to drive at excessive speeds for long periods and not get caught or come to harm, but that will be the tiny minority of the UK’ populations miles travelled.

 

[philnewmerc]

But why would she be looking for a charger on a Wnter’s night on a long run?

How often does she set off to drive 300+ miles mid afternoon in December?

Even when I drive 500 miles in January, I’m setting off early morning AND topping up early afternoon, regardless of the type of fuel I’m using.

If the answer was, "very occasionally" it's still his concern, and it isn't one of yours. Fair enough.

What normal electric car driven normally has a range of 300 miles in winter? Have you read EV forums: this is the one thing they all go on and on about.

Again, this does not mean EVs are rubbish, it just means they (at the moment) don't suit everyone.

ICE: 500 mile at ~40 mpg (basic diesel) is 57 litres, so starting with a full tank you would not need to stop. (Even in my v8 I could just about do it in one go if I went at 60 mph for 30 mpg.)

EV: 500 mile at ~3 miles/kwh (sticking to speed limit or below) is 167 kwh. Assuming you start with a full tank of ~80 kwh and want to leave ~20% and charge to ~80% along the way you'd have to stop and recharge twice.

Again, this should not be read as "and therefore EVs are rubbish", that is 100% not my point, it should be read as "and therefore though EVs are great in many ways, they do have drawbacks and therefore one needs to consider if those are acceptable and drive them accordingly". This is not rocket science and may not be an issue for many people anyway but ignoring the facts is disingenuous.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

If the answer was, "very occasionally" it's still his concern, and it isn't one of yours. Fair enough.

What normal electric car driven normally has a range of 300 miles in winter? Have you read EV forums: this is the one thing they all go on and on about.

Again, this does not mean EVs are rubbish, it just means they (at the moment) don't suit everyone.

ICE: 500 mile at ~40 mpg (basic diesel) is 57 litres, so starting with a full tank you would not need to stop. (Even in my v8 I could just about do it in one go if I went at 60 mph for 30 mpg.)

EV: 500 mile at ~3 miles/kwh (sticking to speed limit or below) is 167 kwh. Assuming you start with a full tank of ~80 kwh and want to leave ~20% and charge to ~80% along the way you'd have to stop and recharge twice.

Again, this should not be read as "and therefore EVs are rubbish", that is 100% not my point, it should be read as "and therefore though EVs are great in many ways, they do have drawbacks and therefore one needs to consider if those are acceptable and drive them accordingly". This is not rocket science and may not be an issue for many people anyway but ignoring the facts is disingenuous.

The prejudices are strong with this one.

Dang, I wish I could drive 500 miles to Beaune in January without stopping. I break four times - every two hours - when I do that ten hour trip - for reasons other than stopping three times at a Tesla Supercharger for 20 minutes to recharge an EV. (On this route at Eurotunnel, Reims, and Val Marnay)

My point was a simple one: "why would she be looking for a charger on a Wnter’s night on a long run? How often does she set off to drive 300+ miles mid afternoon in December?" An EV is effectively "brimmed" at departure. Why the assumption that you'd need to top up during a Winter's drive in any case, let alone at night.

 

[markjay]

On holiday (450 miles from home), cottage nearby has an EQC on charge and my cls55 is sat across the way looking mega cool but neolithic as usual (I love it but know it's days are numbered). Just out of curiosity thought I'd compare some costs:

Travelling at 85mph (as is the unofficial uk speed limit ) I estimate (from forum posts) the EQE consumption will be very lucky to get 1.5 m/kwh, but I will be generous. At 70 mph it'll be about 2.3 m/kwh (trip computer not true calculation - according to a Carwow test). The AMG gets about 22-23 mpg (real not trip computer) at 85 (real not speedo) and about 25-26 mpg at 70 mph. Long term mixed driving m/kwh seems to be around 2 ish mpkwh in cooler climates like the UK. My personal mixed mpg is around 22 mpg.

So:
Charging on the motorway is 75p/kwh, at a consumption rate of 2.3m/kwh at 70 mph that's 33 pence per mile for EQC. AMG cost (on motorway using 98 ron at exorbitant £1.80/L) is 751 pence per gallon, so at 25 mpg that's 30 pence per mile. I.e. slightly cheaper (cheaper still if i drove 2 miles off motorway to get cheap petrol).

But at 85 mph:
Charging on the motorway is 75p/kwh, at a consumption rate of 1.5 m/kwh at 85 mph that's 50 pence per mile for EQC. AMG cost (on motorway using 98 ron at £1.80/L) is 751 pence per gallon, so at 22 mpg that's 34 pence per mile. I.e. much cheaper.

Now overall daily use mpg vs m/kwh and charging at home:
From forum posts and tests, eg Auto Express, when driven pretty gently, as EV drivers tend to do, 2.4 m/kwh ave seems a generous assumption but I'll stick to it (2 seems closer). Note though that if I drove like an EV driver I'd get a pretty good 25 mpg (21-22 is my own swifter-driving average) i.e at normal fuel prices of 700p for a gallon that is 28p/mile. Off peak cheapest electricity deal for my address is 9.5 p/kwh (and 32 p in the day plus 57 p standing charge). EVs use about 15% more kwh than rated due to heat losses (and preheating) while charging. So to put 150 miles in the EQC in the early hours of the morning will need 150m/2.4m/kwh*9.5p/kwh*115%= 683 pence (£6.83). For the AMG it would need 150m* 28p/m = 4200 pence (£42). Massive difference but with such a small range this figure assumes non-exorbitant charging is required to get home!

Unfortunately I do not have easy access to charge overnight and I doubt the majority do either... On a plus point, I can use my heating and air con whenever I please . Obviously I have ignored road tax, depreciation, etc etc etc.

The real world range of the EQC seems to be about 150 miles, but that's assumes you can get it up to 100% and don't mind going down to close to 0%.

Conclusion:
EVs are perfect if you drive around your local area a lot, or town, don't go more than 75 miles (150 total) away from home, you drive slowly on motorways (EV forums are full of people chatting about slip streaming lorries ) , you have a convenient place to plug in at home overnight, don't go on holiday, don't charge outside of home, and probably most importantly, you are a top rate tax payer who essentially gets the car for 40% off list courtesy of the government via salary sacrifice or BIC.. on that front it just seemed like an excellent deal tbh, although the EV equivalent car does tend to cost 30 to 40% more than the ice model anyway? For a private buyer I am still not sure they make sense except as town cars where they make excellent sense.

Just to say that I am impressed with the effort and the meticulous approach, however I do hope that the you haven't actually based you decision of the figures you arrived at? The C63 is overall a much nicer car to drive than a Model-Y (even if it may struggle in straight line performance). But your calculation above is just a bit of fun, the actual result is in practical terms meaningless because it relies on a set of arbitrary assumptions. This is inevitable because some of the factors are unknown and therefore there's no alternative to making assumptions if we are to make any progress. But, again, 10 out 10 for the effort.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

If the answer was, "very occasionally" it's still his concern, and it isn't one of yours. Fair enough.

What normal electric car driven normally has a range of 300 miles in winter? Have you read EV forums: this is the one thing they all go on and on about.

Again, this does not mean EVs are rubbish, it just means they (at the moment) don't suit everyone.

ICE: 500 mile at ~40 mpg (basic diesel) is 57 litres, so starting with a full tank you would not need to stop. (Even in my v8 I could just about do it in one go if I went at 60 mph for 30 mpg.)

EV: 500 mile at ~3 miles/kwh (sticking to speed limit or below) is 167 kwh. Assuming you start with a full tank of ~80 kwh and want to leave ~20% and charge to ~80% along the way you'd have to stop and recharge twice.

Again, this should not be read as "and therefore EVs are rubbish", that is 100% not my point, it should be read as "and therefore though EVs are great in many ways, they do have drawbacks and therefore one needs to consider if those are acceptable and drive them accordingly". This is not rocket science and may not be an issue for many people anyway but ignoring the facts is disingenuous.

There are people who drive at 90-95 mph and there are people who drive 500 miles without stopping, but there aren’t many, and of those there will be even fewer who do either regularly. There will be even fewer still travel 500 miles at 90-95 mph without stopping (I know I combined your two extreme use cases into one extreme use case).

Whilst some people may sometimes do those things, the vast majority don’t, and so isn’t really relevant to the real world uptake of EVs at scale. Most people will travel close to the speed limit and stop every 2-3 hours, and will probably stop for longer than an F1 pitstop style splash and dash against the clock.

You’re right that EVs aren’t right for everyone - for a number of reasons - and they’re not expected to be. Nor are all drivers expected to switch immediately to an EV, so it’s fine. We all have time for it all to play out and become normal or simply fizzle out, never to be seen again. Either way the impact of change will be less than some might fear.

 

[markjay]

There are people who drive at 90-95 mph and there are people who drive 500 miles without stopping, but there aren’t many, and of those there will be even fewer who do either regularly. There will be even fewer still travel 500 miles at 90-95 mph without stopping (I know I combined your two extreme use cases into one extreme use case).

Whilst some people may sometimes do those things, the vast majority don’t, and so isn’t really relevant to the real world uptake of EVs at scale. Most people will travel close to the speed limit and stop every 2-3 hours, and will probably stop for longer than an F1 pitstop style splash and dash against the clock.

You’re right that EVs aren’t right for everyone - for a number of reasons - and they’re not expected to be. Nor are all drivers expected to switch immediately to an EV, so it’s fine. We all have time for it all to play out and become normal or simply fizzle out, never to be seen again. Either way the impact of change will be less than some might fear.

What you are saying is true, and furthermore it is applicable only to the single odd journey, and even then thuts isn't necessarily the case.

It's unlikely that you can actually drive at 95mpg or even 85mph or anywhere in the UK for one hour straight, let alone 2-3 hours, not to mention every day over the next 2 or 3 years.... Roadworks, accidents, traffic jams, variable speed motorways, temporary speed limits, slow traffic, poor weather (heavy rain, fog, or snow), or just a marked ploce car travelling at 70mph with everyone tailings behind it. And, if you are caught driving at 85mph or 95mph, you'll get points on your license and you'll be driving at a steady 70mph for the next two years, guaranteed. Not to mention that you'll need to be living on a Motorway exit, and driving to a destination that's on another Motorway exit, and never use the car for any other type of journey. In summary, basing any calculation on driving at 85mph, all day, every day, will simply lead to an erroneous result.

 

[clk320x]

ICE: 500 mile at ~40 mpg (basic diesel) is 57 litres, so starting with a full tank you would not need to stop. (Even in my v8 I could just about do it in one go if I went at 60 mph for 30 mpg.)

EV: 500 mile at ~3 miles/kwh (sticking to speed limit or below) is 167 kwh. Assuming you start with a full tank of ~80 kwh and want to leave ~20% and charge to ~80% along the way you'd have to stop and recharge twice.

How many people do 500 mile journeys without stopping? That’s 8 hours of driving

 

[markjay]

How many people do 500 mile journeys without stopping? That’s 8 hours of driving

You'll be surprised what the human spirit can achieve when inventing excuses as to why EVs are no good.

We discover that people drive regularly 6 hours nonstop at 85mph in the UK (where exactly....? Do tell where this fantastic motorway is hidden), all day, every day. They never get caught, because there are no speed cameras and no police cars on the Fantastic Motorway. We then learn that they need a car for unexpected urgent very long journeys. We further discover that due to another rare set of circumstances they can only buy the most expensive electricity there is, at 75p per kWh. Yes Sir, we have learnt very many things we didn't know about UK drivers, thanks to the EV debate.

Of course, those of us who actually drive EVs, know that they just work... no fuss and no drama.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

You'll be surprised what the human spirit can achieve when inventing excuses as to why EVs are no good.

Reminds me of my post which I copy and paste into threads from time to time…

Until EVs became mainstream I hadn’t realised how many people have to tow their twin axle caravan from Glasgow to Morocco three times every week, with 6 passengers, 4 bikes and 2 dobermans, and they must only stop for a maximum of 5 minutes once to refuel.

I’d like to see an EV do that. And until they can - and do so for a purchase price of £5k and the energy cost no more than 10% of the cost of petrol and diesel then EVs are doomed to fail. I almost forgot that must be 10% based upon the energy prices in 1993.

And don’t get me even started on charging infrastructure (there are only three working chargers in the whole of the UK and they’re all in Daventry, and the need to replace the battery packs every 6 weeks at a cost three times greater than the cost of the car is past a joke.

The batteries are made by children and raw materials are mined by corrupt governments. During manufacture those materials must circumnavigate the world six times. A diesel must travel 544k miles before it even equals the CO2 output of manufacturing one battery.

Then there’s using it. Wind turbines don’t work without storm force winds and solar panels only work in June, so the the so called green EV is using electricity produced from fossil fuels. Hello sheeple, when will you wake up and smell the diesel fumes, I mean coffee?

And let‘s not kid ourselves, when “they” eventually install enough public chargers, the national grid can’t cope with simultaneously charging 37 million EVs from stone dead to the 150% we must all insist upon in case we have to go to the airport early one morning.

Need i mention the fact that 99.2% of the population don’t have a driveway to charge their car on, and so pavements will be littered with charging cables? And 98.7% of people rent their home and there’s no way landlords will pay to install chargers.

I could go on, but I’ll leave you with these final thoughts.

I read on an anti EV forum that a member spoke to someone in the queue at the barbers, who had read in the letters page of Auto Express that a disappointed EV driver who was forced to have an EV as a company car by their employer found that:

1. The 200 mile range claimed by the manufacturer can fall to as low as 169 miles if you drive at 112 mph in the midday heat of the Sahara desert, or in temperatures below -42 degrees C. We get both extremes every day here in Luton.

2. They had to take their car back for a recall, and the dealer told them that there had been another one in for the same recall the week before, and that the senior master technician said that they had once done a warranty claim on an EV too. The headlamps misted up.

3. In 2022, at the main dealer it takes nine senior master technicians three days to make an EV safe enough to change the window wiper blades. In 1977 I changed the engine in my Ford Granada on the footpath, on my own, at night, in 20 minutes. And that’s progress?

4. The UK is accountable for 0.7% of global CO2 emissions, and privately own cars make up 0.1% of that, so unless China stop building 92 coal powered power stations every week then there’s absolutely no point doing anything about it.

EVs aren’t the solution, but that won’t stop the Government forcing everyone to buy an EV just like they forced everyone to buy a diesel. We should definitely invest in hydrogen, hydrogen is definitely the future and the infrastructure could definitely be ready by next week.

 

[markjay]

Reminds me of my post which I copy and paste into threads from time to time…

Until EVs became mainstream I hadn’t realised how many people have to tow their twin axle caravan from Glasgow to Morocco three times every week, with 6 passengers, 4 bikes and 2 dobermans, and they must only stop for a maximum of 5 minutes once to refuel.

I’d like to see an EV do that. And until they can - and do so for a purchase price of £5k and the energy cost no more than 10% of the cost of petrol and diesel then EVs are doomed to fail. I almost forgot that must be 10% based upon the energy prices in 1993.

And don’t get me even started on charging infrastructure (there are only three working chargers in the whole of the UK and they’re all in Daventry, and the need to replace the battery packs every 6 weeks at a cost three times greater than the cost of the car is past a joke.

The batteries are made by children and raw materials are mined by corrupt governments. During manufacture those materials must circumnavigate the world six times. A diesel must travel 544k miles before it even equals the CO2 output of manufacturing one battery.

Then there’s using it. Wind turbines don’t work without storm force winds and solar panels only work in June, so the the so called green EV is using electricity produced from fossil fuels. Hello sheeple, when will you wake up and smell the diesel fumes, I mean coffee?

And let‘s not kid ourselves, when “they” eventually install enough public chargers, the national grid can’t cope with simultaneously charging 37 million EVs from stone dead to the 150% we must all insist upon in case we have to go to the airport early one morning.

Need i mention the fact that 99.2% of the population don’t have a driveway to charge their car on, and so pavements will be littered with charging cables? And 98.7% of people rent their home and there’s no way landlords will pay to install chargers.

I could go on, but I’ll leave you with these final thoughts.

I read on an anti EV forum that a member spoke to someone in the queue at the barbers, who had read in the letters page of Auto Express that a disappointed EV driver who was forced to have an EV as a company car by their employer found that:

1. The 200 mile range claimed by the manufacturer can fall to as low as 169 miles if you drive at 112 mph in the midday heat of the Sahara desert, or in temperatures below -42 degrees C. We get both extremes every day here in Luton.

2. They had to take their car back for a recall, and the dealer told them that there had been another one in for the same recall the week before, and that the senior master technician said that they had once done a warranty claim on an EV too. The headlamps misted up.

3. In 2022, at the main dealer it takes nine senior master technicians three days to make an EV safe enough to change the window wiper blades. In 1977 I changed the engine in my Ford Granada on the footpath, on my own, at night, in 20 minutes. And that’s progress?

4. The UK is accountable for 0.7% of global CO2 emissions, and privately own cars make up 0.1% of that, so unless China stop building 92 coal powered power stations every week then there’s absolutely no point doing anything about it.

EVs aren’t the solution, but that won’t stop the Government forcing everyone to buy an EV just like they forced everyone to buy a diesel. We should definitely invest in hydrogen, hydrogen is definitely the future and the infrastructure could definitely be ready by next week.

Well said, Sir.

On this occasion, I am delighted to be grandstanded!

 

[philnewmerc]

I suppose the take home message for me is that this discussion has actually been about speed; I always sit in the fast lane with my camera detector occasionally telling me to slow down. I get a kick out of going fast and getting wherever I'm going quickly (not in built up areas though, I'm not a complete Audi driver). I can not see the attraction of sticking to the rules and pondering the meaning of life at 60-70 mph - the speed the majority of EVs in my experience seem to go at... I would be pummelled with boredom. But I know that is just me and, for sensitive eyes: that is not meant as a slight at those that do. So with that in mind I can see that going from driving an ICE slowly to driving an EV slowly (in my terms at least), is probably not such a leap after all. But for me, used to enjoying speed, having to slow down to get the miles per kwh to a reasonable level, I'd be bored senseless. So for me, assuming I moved from my Victorian Terrace to a house on a hideous housing estate with drive and upvc porticoes, I think having the AMG petrol for longer trips and the EV for within a 80 mile radius would be ideal. There you go, you turned me on to EVs. Next I'll be stating I can drive 500 miles with only 3 stops to queue for electricity and had a lovely time counting sheep as I nodded off at 60 slipstreaming Eddie Stobart.

Boom

In seriousness, I really do think EVs are quite cool. I like the idea of: using electricity when it's cheap overnight, not worrying about warming the engine, having instant torque, serenity, less to go wrong, etc. But I also would miss the romantic side of car appreciation: the 8 cylinders, the supercharger whirring away, the rear drive stepping out on slow corners, the easy high speed and fast fill ups... it's pros and cons and I can very well see the pros even if my tongue in cheek comments make you think not.

 

[philnewmerc]

The prejudices are strong with this one.

The need for spec savers is strong with this one

Dang, I wish I could drive 500 miles to Beaune in January without stopping. I break four times - every two hours - when I do that ten hour trip - for reasons other than stopping three times at a Tesla Supercharger for 20 minutes to recharge an EV. (On this route at Eurotunnel, Reims, and Val Marnay)

You stop 3 times to recharge to go 500 miles. Nothing wrong with that if you're happy to dawdle. I'm not knocking it, it's just not for me.

My point was a simple one: "why would she be looking for a charger on a Wnter’s night on a long run? How often does she set off to drive 300+ miles mid afternoon in December?" An EV is effectively "brimmed" at departure. Why the assumption that you'd need to top up during a Winter's drive in any case, let alone at night.

Because in winter the range will be terrible and he doesn't want his mrs to worry about finding a charger if she's an occasional driver?

 

[markjay]

I suppose the take home message for me is that this discussion has actually been about speed; I always sit in the fast lane with my camera detector occasionally telling me to slow down. I get a kick out of going fast and getting wherever I'm going quickly (not in built up areas though, I'm not a complete Audi driver). I can not see the attraction of sticking to the rules and pondering the meaning of life at 60-70 mph - the speed the majority of EVs in my experience seem to go at... I would be pummelled with boredom. But I know that is just me and, for sensitive eyes: that is not meant as a slight at those that do. So with that in mind I can see that going from driving an ICE slowly to driving an EV slowly (in my terms at least), is probably not such a leap after all. But for me, used to enjoying speed, having to slow down to get the miles per kwh to a reasonable level, I'd be bored senseless. So for me, assuming I moved from my Victorian Terrace to a house on a hideous housing estate with drive and upvc porticoes, I think having the AMG petrol for longer trips and the EV for within a 80 mile radius would be ideal. There you go, you turned me on to EVs. Next I'll be stating I can drive 500 miles with only 3 stops to queue for electricity and had a lovely time counting sheep as I nodded off at 60 slipstreaming Eddie Stobart.

Boom

In seriousness, I really do think EVs are quite cool. I like the idea of: using electricity when it's cheap overnight, not worrying about warming the engine, having instant torque, serenity, less to go wrong, etc. But I also would miss the romantic side of car appreciation: the 8 cylinders, the supercharger whirring away, the rear drive stepping out on slow corners, the easy high speed and fast fill ups... it's pros and cons and I can very well see the pros even if my tongue in cheek comments make you think not.

Have a look at my previous posts. I am not chastising you for speeding. I am just questioning the extreme assumptions that you have used to reach the incorrect conclusion that you have - and I have covered the issues with your 85mph assumption in my previous post.

Your other assumption, regarding the cost of electricity, is also on shaky ground. Firstly, the cost per kWh is generally proportional to the charger's speed. You are assuming that you will always be charging on one superfast charger. Again, this is unrealistic - unless your daily route is like a train's, back-and-forth between two fixed locations. Not all chargers along your route will be Tesla Superchargers or Ionity 350kW chargers - if you stop and charge at (say~) 50kW charger, then the cost per kWh will be lower.

Then, your built-in assumption that the electricity cost will remain the same throughout your ownership (next 2-3 years) is again baseless. Over the past couple of years, I've seen the price of electricity at the same charger in front of my house go from 24p to 79p, then down to 37p (which is the current rate). The issue is that electricity prices have fluctuated far more than petrol and Diesel prices.

In short, you have made the 'right' assumptions that will lead you to choose the AMG over an EV - and I don't blame you... - but it's called rationalisation, i.e. you are looking for a seemingly-impartial evidence (the meticulous calculations) that will justify the decision that you have already made in your mind.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I can not see the attraction of sticking to the rules and pondering the meaning of life at 60-70 mph - the speed the majority of EVs in my experience seem to go at... I would be pummelled with boredom.

There is no attraction as such. What you’re describing is just driving at or around the speed limits of the fastest roads in the UK.

You may find it boring but that’s what the majority of the UK population do most of the time, and it’s what the law says too.

So if driving at 60-70 mph is boring then it’s not really driving an EV that’s boring, it’s driving in line with speed limits that’s boring.

 

[clk320x]

always sit in the fast lane with my camera detector occasionally telling me to slow down.

I’m guessing you don’t drive much on smart motorways?

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

But I also would miss the romantic side of car appreciation: the 8 cylinders, the supercharger whirring away, the rear drive stepping out on slow corners, the easy high speed and fast fill ups...

So for me, assuming I moved from my Victorian Terrace to a house on a hideous housing estate with drive and upvc porticoes, I think having the AMG petrol for longer trips and the EV for within a 80 mile radius would be ideal.

Most people in the UK - and members of this forum - live in the kind of place you describe as hideous, and would love to have an AMG that they could drive at 90-95 mph just because because they enjoy speed.

I and others would understand why you want to hold on to having a lovely Victorian home and a supercharged V8 luxury car, it sounds wonderful, but it also sounds a lot like what some might call “privilege” though.