5.4L supercharged V8 vs EQC running costs

[BTB 500]

Worryingly Crufts appears not to have its own petrol station. Should we be worried about this?

My point was that many people travel quite long distances (at motorway speeds, where EVs typically have significantly reduced range) to the NEC, so recharging there while you are at the event you're attending would seem the obvious thing to do. Rather than having to stop and wait somewhere else before or after.

Not an issue with IC vehicles where (a) you have much more motorway range to start with and (b) refilling takes a maximum of 5 minutes if required.

 

[philnewmerc]

NB I think EVs are in many ways great... Using renewable energy and excess cheap power at night is fantastic. The acceleration is also very good. Servicing cost is very low. Etc. It's just not suitable for me or at least 1/2 the population, yet. hope that bit is clear at least

If EV drivers have never needed to make a madcap dash to visit sick parents or kids in trouble and and therefore not worried about what range they have I guess that's super But these things have happened to me. Am i the only one?

I started the thread as a light hearted comparison of an aging ICE dinosaur and a modern EV, for fun, and didn't force the old ice car to win just pointed out some real drawbacks, which has caused much EV enthusiast annoyance. I'm not entirely convinced that the idea of EV enthusiasts being poe faced hyoermilers has been eliminated... That's the end of the thread now, we've learnt all we need, no more posts please. Kaboooom

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I think I actually said the 9k Leaf idea sounds great in theory for many people but as an only car for me it has significant drawbacks... was that not clear? The thing that seems to be blissfully ignored is I have raised about 3 notable issues which are not 'insurmountable' or 'wrong headed' or 'mean EV drivers are stupid' or anything like that, but they are real:
1 to get equivalent EV performance and range to ICE reqires lots more ££££ upfront (obviously this will get better eventually but not yet) and even then the range is just nit there.
2 nearly half of people in the UK don't have driveways - what do they do? And they will not benefit from cheap overnight energy (one assumes, maybe I'm wrong there)
3 and in an emergency or some situation requiring urgency if one's only car is an EV do owners not feel at all anxious about how an urgent trip would go? (Yes they might have a full tank but 200 miles at 65 mph in an emergency sounds miserable)

No, you weren't clear. You said: "My point was in order to get the benefits you have spend a lot more than on an ICE. The difference is that I can and have enjoyed driving, e.g., a fairly modern ecoboost fiesta i had, but I would not enjoy driving the equivalent electric hatchback because their limitations are still too great."

I pointed out people don't have to spend a lot more on a used EV. Even at this very early stage, they are already competing with ICE on purchase price, and then giving up to a 90% saving on fuel costs.

Sorry to hear that you're regularly driving 200 miles at 70mph because of family emergencies. It must be very stressful for you. You have our sympathy for the agony you must be going through with your aged parents and those teenagers. How many of those miles in 20 and 30mph zones?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

My point was that many people travel quite long distances (at motorway speeds, where EVs typically have significantly reduced range) to the NEC, so recharging there while you are at the event you're attending would seem the obvious thing to do. Rather than having to stop and wait somewhere else before or after.

Not an issue with IC vehicles where (a) you have much more motorway range to start with and (b) refilling takes a maximum of 5 minutes if required.

Oh, so 15 minutes at a BP Pulse petrol station, while having a pee or a coffee is a significant difference to 5 minutes stood at a pump?

What makes you think that people would want to be connected to a charger for hours during a visit to the NEC ?

How many miles is it from your Shropshire gaff to the NEC ? If you're in Ludlow, say, it's just 120 miles return, so you'd be driving the whole way at 2p / mile using electricity from your home charger.

 

[ALFAitalia]

NB I think EVs are in many ways great... Using renewable energy and excess cheap power at night is fantastic.

We currently only produce about 50 percent of our power from renewables in a good year....the rest is planet killing carbon. That why it takes an EV an average of about 60,000 miles to break even in the carbon with an ICE car in the UK.....and about 20 feet in Norway!
And how long before they start taxing the leccy you use to charge your car to recoup the most petrol/diesel tax.....I'm betting not long. The tech already exists. They will attract VED in about 18 months....so I'm sure "fuel tax" will follow.

 

[BTB 500]

Oh, so 15 minutes at a BP Pulse petrol station, while having a pee or a coffee is a significant difference to 5 minutes stood at a pump?

What makes you think that people would want to be connected to a charger for hours during a visit to the NEC ?

How many miles is it from your Shropshire gaff to the NEC ? If you're in Ludlow, say, it's just 120 miles return, so you'd be driving the whole way at 2p / mile using electricity from your home charger.

The NEC is relatively local for us now ... roughly a 100 mile round trip. So OK in an EV car, but pushing it in an electric van at motorway speeds. Particularly in colder/darker conditions I think.

What proportion of EVs will get significant range from a 15 minute charge? Does this apply to the 10 year old Nissan Leaf etc. (genuine question - I have no idea). After spending all day at an event I'd just want to get home as soon as possible - I wouldn't be stopping at all normally.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The NEC is relatively local for us now ... roughly a 100 mile round trip. So OK in an EV car, but pushing it in an electric van at motorway speeds. Particularly in colder/darker conditions I think.

What proportion of EVs will get significant range from a 15 minute charge? Does this apply to the 10 year old Nissan Leaf etc. (genuine question - I have no idea). After spending all day at an event I'd just want to get home as soon as possible - I wouldn't be stopping at all normally.

Why would you want to replace a Vito or a C300 with a Nissan Leaf? Seems like an odd choice.

A ten year old Leaf for £5800, with 8k on the clock, would do a 100 mile round trip with two quids' worth of electricity from your home. Formal range is 124 miles.

A nine minute top up charge at that BP station adds 30 miles to the range on this specific Leaf. So that would be a 154 mile range

A 30 minute charge would add another 100 miles to your range. But why would you want a 224 mile range ?

But seriously, you shouldn't replace the Vito with a Nissan Leaf - even if it's only £5,800 and costs just 2p a mile for fuel.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

What, even in your Smart ForFour AMG Black Series Night Edition Premium Plus 125 Powered by Brabus?

Of course not, not in Mercedes-AMG ForFour AMG Sport Plus Black Series Night Edition Premium Plus 125 Navi facelift powered by Brabus.

The Mercedes-AMG ForFour AMG Sport Plus Black Series Night Edition Premium Plus 125 Navi facelift powered by Brabus has truly effortless performance.

But I would be if it was just the much more common Mercedes-AMG ForFour Black Series powered by Brabus which incredibly rare but not the one to have.

Everyone knows that the Mercedes-AMG ForFour AMG Sport Plus Black Series Night Edition Premium Plus 125 Navi facelift powered by Brabus is the one to have.

Being an AMG Sport Plus with Night Edition and Premium Plus is what makes the biggest difference, but the 125 Navi is what makes it the unicorn.

 

[markjay]

Eclectic Vehicles eat tires fast.
I red an article about EV cars and total mileage cost is very steep buying and fitting new larger sized tires on EV cars.
Tires for EV cars wear out much faster than on petrol/diesel cars.

This is something automotive industry doesn't inform about the downside of tire costs.
Buying a Scalextric racetrack is much cheaper and keeing your old petrol car.

That's just typical anti-EV propaganda.

You're not seriously suggesting that an EV will run through a set of tyres faster than an AMG V8....?

I mean, we had people here who said they need new rear tyres on their C63s every 3,000 miles...

Sure, an ID.3 will be heavy on the tyres compared to a 1.5L petrol Golf. But to take this out of context and apply it to a 5.4L Biturbu AMG is not serious... seriously.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

And how long before they start taxing the leccy you use to charge your car to recoup the most petrol/diesel tax.....I'm betting not long. The tech already exists. They will attract VED in about 18 months....so I'm sure "fuel tax" will follow.

I’d say per mile road charging will actually be how we’re all charged in future, rather than taxing electricity specifically for car use.

 

[noogieman]

Any EV is faster than a petrol & diesel car therefore eats tires way faster than a regular car.
Why do these EV's always have huge sized tires, not very cheap to buy or?
My 18 inch wheels are small versus EV wheels

 

[markjay]

Good write up buddy . I agree that an EV makes sense locally as a small shopping car . More so if they can break the link between electric and gas prices .
Still can’t help thinking that my £3k non dpf diesel that does 40mpg is worth keeping at the moment rather than buying anything electric

My flight was delayed last night and arrived in Gatwick at an ungodly hour. I pre-booked an Addison Lee because the trains were only partially running last night. The driver arrived in one of their ID.4 cars that I've seen running around London recently. Not sure how many Gatwick to North West London their ID.4 can do, obviously less than their Diesel Ford Galaxy of old, but saying that an EV "makes sense locally as a small shopping car" sounds like a scripted line that JC would say on the old TC show..........

 

[markjay]

Any EV is faster than a petrol & diesel car therefore eats tires way faster than a regular car.
Why do these EV's always have huge sized tires, not very cheap to buy or?
My 18 inch wheels are small versus EV wheels

The big wheels are for the bling effect - in fact they reduce range. Some IONIC 5 owners on the forums I frequent bought the top-of-the-range model that comes with wide 20" wheels, then replaced them with the narrower 19" wheels from the entry-level model, to gain some more range.

 

[markjay]

I’d say per mile road charging will actually be how we’re all charged in future, rather than taxing electricity specifically for car use.

Hallelujah Amen!

 

[markjay]

So, re the elephant above.... Your neighbour's £67k EQC is probably company owned, and expensed.

It's is barely costing him anything, in financing, depreciation, road fund licence or fuel. The company is picking up the £10k a year bill for four years. (£7k payments, tax, insurance, maintenance)

He's proud of it. And his company is probably pleased that he's pleased with it, because a) it's a status symbol - for the company and for himself;
b) they'll be paying him less because he's got that cute motor as a part of his compensation plan

He's not a tree hugger. He can't afford an ICE engine on his company plan.

View attachment 146000

Spot on

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

My flight was delayed last night and arrived in Gatwick at an ungodly hour. I pre-booked an Addison Lee because the trains were only partially running last night. The driver arrived in one of their ID.4 cars that I've seen running around London recently. Not sure how many Gatwick to North West London their ID.4 can do, obviously less than their Diesel Ford Galaxy of old, but saying that an EV "makes sense locally as a small shopping car" sounds like a scripted line that JC would say on the old TC show..........

Shows how long it’s been since I’ve been to the big city. I assumed that Addison Lee had stockpiled Galaxies or insisted that Ford restarted production!

 

[markjay]

Shows how long it’s been since I’ve been to the big city. I assumed that Addison Lee had stockpiled Galaxies or insisted that Ford restarted production!

Addison Lee: Britain’s biggest taxi firm to go all-electric by 2023 with VW ID.4 fleet | Auto Express

Addison Lee will spend £160 million on the switch, with a fleet of Volkswagen ID.4s set to join the company’s ranks

www.autoexpress.co.uk

 

[markjay]

...l would not enjoy driving the equivalent electric hatchback because their limitations are still too great.

Fair enough. In what way, though? Are there no public chargers where you live? Of does your regular commute require round trips of 300+ miles?

 

[markjay]

I know.

I said in my original post: "... and probably most importantly, you are a top rate tax payer who essentially gets the car for 40% off list courtesy of the government via salary sacrifice or BIC.. on that front it just seemed like an excellent deal tbh, although the EV equivalent car does tend to cost 30 to 40% more than the ice model anyway? For a private buyer I am still not sure they make sense except as town cars where they make excellent sense."

You are correct in saying that for anyone who can get a car on a salary sacrifice scheme, an EV is a no brainer.

For people buying or leasing privately the picture is more complex.

New EVs are generally more expensive than their ICE equivalent, and second hand ones are still relatively scarse compared to second hand ICE cars stock. So you'll need to be doing many miles in order to break even overall. But instead of doing the impossible and try to work out the saving on servicing and brakes against the increased cost of tyres etc etc, I suggest to simply look at monthly lease figures for EVs and similar ICE cars (e.g. ID.3 Vs Gold), opting for a lease that includes servicing and tyres. Then, all you're left with is comparing the actual mpg Vs m/kWh (and VED, and if in London then also Congestion Charge, pay and display parking, and Residents Parking Permits, all of which are free for EVs).

 

[philnewmerc]

No, you weren't clear. You said: "My point was in order to get the benefits you have spend a lot more than on an ICE. The difference is that I can and have enjoyed driving, e.g., a fairly modern ecoboost fiesta i had, but I would not enjoy driving the equivalent electric hatchback because their limitations are still too great."

I pointed out people don't have to spend a lot more on a used EV. Even at this very early stage, they are already competing with ICE on purchase price, and then giving up to a 90% saving on fuel costs.

Sorry to hear that you're regularly driving 200 miles at 70mph because of family emergencies. It must be very stressful for you. You have our sympathy for the agony you must be going through with your aged parents and those teenagers. How many of those miles in 20 and 30mph zones?

I was perfectly clear to most people who aren't being obtuse: I said the range of the Fiesta was 400 miles and an EV hatchback cannot get close for the price (yet). That is not controversial to any reasonable reader.

70 mph isn't an emergency level speed lol, that's just the speed limit. But yes, to EV drivers 70 mph is dangerous territory I'd say 85 is the typical outside lane speed (uk) and so far it is an EV free zone.

You've used the family emergency situation as a joke a couple of times now. Coolio. I'm sorry you've apparently never had loved ones to dash to in an emergency , but I'm sure most people have, i certainly have and even though you think its funny i do consider things like being able to get to elderly parents quickly: I merely asked what do EV drivers do then*?

(*I suppose you'd be slipstreaming lorries at 56 to get there without charging and explain to the sick/distressed person how many extra miles range you gained... Assuming they hadn't died waiting, or of boredom. Fair enough )