5.4L supercharged V8 vs EQC running costs

[philnewmerc]

That's just typical anti-EV propaganda.

You're not seriously suggesting that an EV will run through a set of tyres faster than an AMG V8....?

I mean, we had people here who said they need new rear tyres on their C63s every 3,000 miles...

Sure, an ID.3 will be heavy on the tyres compared to a 1.5L petrol Golf. But to take this out of context and apply it to a 5.4L Biturbu AMG is not serious... seriously.

It's not a big deal imho but EVs are heavier and have more torque on set off so I'd be surprised if they don't wear quicker than the equivalent ICE... But this is small fry campared to the far cheaper fuel costs.

 

[philnewmerc]

Fair enough. In what way, though? Are there no public chargers where you live? Of does your regular commute require round trips of 300+ miles?

I've stated why several times. And said i like EVs in principle. Be obtuse if you prefer

I thought gen z were sensitive, but they've not encountered EV drivers on a forum thread meant as a bit fun

 

[philnewmerc]

You are correct in saying that for anyone who can get a car on a salary sacrifice scheme, an EV is a no brainer.

For people buying or leasing privately the picture is more complex.

New EVs are generally more expensive than their ICE equivalent, and second hand ones are still relatively scarse compared to second hand ICE cars stock. So you'll need to be doing many miles in order to break even overall. But instead of doing the impossible and try to work out the saving on servicing and brakes against the increased cost of tyres etc etc, I suggest to simply look at monthly lease figures for EVs and similar ICE cars (e.g. ID.3 Vs Gold), opting for a lease that includes servicing and tyres. Then, all you're left with is comparing the actual mpg Vs m/kWh (and VED, and if in London then also Congestion Charge, pay and display parking, and Residents Parking Permits, all of which are free for EVs).

This makes sense if you aren't bothered about owning a thing that delights you and just need to commute to work as cheaply as possible . I cycle or work at home

 

[Red C220]

This has gone a bit off piste so I'll add another perspective as an EV owner and petrolhead.

We leased our EV's because of tax and running costs.....full stop. Nothing whatsoever to do with enviromental issues. It is what it is.

It's like F1 drivers trying to convince you they live in Monaco because it's "central and easy to get to all the European races"......Yeah it's tax isn't it.....lets not try and gloss over it.

So when we decided to lease the emperors new clothes it was a bit of a no brainer, tax free, offset it all against Corportation tax an Nil BIK tax...

A couple of years later and a bit of a financial perfect storm, electricity now costs more than ambergris, road tax is being introduced for EV's along with incremental BIK charges.

My buisness Partner once charged his Taycan at one of the superfast chargers at the Porsche dealer. It cost the same a tank of super unleaded. Oh how we chuckled.

It's all a bit cloudy now when at first it appeared so very clear. For some it works, for others it's a non starter and many are kind of somewhere in the middle.

We've lived it (and have another 12 months to go) and for us it makes little sense to renew now that the real cost of the EV's is being built into the lease prices. Mazda are going to take an almighty bath on the two cars we've had when we hand them back at 36 months.

Salary sacrifice schemes won't look so attractive when the same car that was £600 month for the last three years is now £1000 month when the deal is up, and you have some BIK.......The gap has closed. it's no longer the no brainer it was.

 

[markjay]

This has gone a bit off piste so I'll add another perspective as an EV owner and petrolhead.

We leased our EV's because of tax and running costs.....full stop. Nothing whatsoever to do with enviromental issues. It is what it is.

It's like F1 drivers trying to convince you they live in Monaco because it's "central and easy to get to all the European races"......Yeah it's tax isn't it.....lets not try and gloss over it.

So when we decided to lease the emperors new clothes it was a bit of a no brainer, tax free, offset it all against Corportation tax an Nil BIK tax...

A couple of years later and a bit of a financial perfect storm, electricity now costs more than ambergris, road tax is being introduced for EV's along with incremental BIK charges.

My buisness Partner once charged his Taycan at one of the superfast chargers at the Porsche dealer. It cost the same a tank of super unleaded. Oh how we chuckled.

It's all a bit cloudy now when at first it appeared so very clear. For some it works, for others it's a non starter and many are kind of somewhere in the middle.

We've lived it (and have another 12 months to go) and for us it makes little sense to renew now that the real cost of the EV's is being built into the lease prices. Mazda are going to take an almighty bath on the two cars we've had when we hand them back at 36 months.

Salary sacrifice schemes won't look so attractive when the same car that was £600 month for the last three years is now £1000 month when the deal is up, and you have some BIK.......The gap has closed. it's no longer the no brainer it was.

I agree. The best time to get an EV on business lease was 2-3 years ago. It's still OK financially, but if you get one now than year 3 might not work out so cheap anymore.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I was perfectly clear to most people who aren't being obtuse: I said the range of the Fiesta was 400 miles and an EV hatchback cannot get close for the price (yet). That is not controversial to any reasonable reader.

70 mph isn't an emergency level speed lol, that's just the speed limit. But yes, to EV drivers 70 mph is dangerous territory I'd say 85 is the typical outside lane speed (uk) and so far it is an EV free zone.

You've used the family emergency situation as a joke a couple of times now. Coolio. I'm sorry you've apparently never had loved ones to dash to in an emergency , but I'm sure most people have, i certainly have and even though you think its funny i do consider things like being able to get to elderly parents quickly: I merely asked what do EV drivers do then*?

(*I suppose you'd be slipstreaming lorries at 56 to get there without charging and explain to the sick/distressed person how many extra miles range you gained... Assuming they hadn't died waiting, or of boredom. Fair enough )

You've used the family emergency situation as a reason to reject EVs several times now. The last example being your need to drive 200 miles at 70mph to attend to your aged parents and stranded teenagers.

It’s a laughable excuse in a country where most of us can’t drive 200 miles at 70mph

Open your mind to what’s going on around you. The world’s changed. Your prejudices are wrong.

Yes, I’m stuck in a 5.5 litre estate, doing three pan-European trips a year, but it won’t always be so, because depreciation is opening up EV’s to me. (And I’m very aware that fewer Brits drive to Europe than 20 years ago. It’s cheaper to fly)

I have had a close relative fall to his near death. (A coma that lasted four months before we switched him off). And I have had teenagers that needed a lift home. None of these journeys would have been slower, or “out of range,” in an EV. It’s childish to suggest that they would be.

The days of midnight races around the 120 miles of the M25 (in an hour) or 130 mph blatts down the A3 disappeared a couple of decades ago.

There are real reasons not to buy a new EV. There were real reasons not to buy a new AMG CLS. Focus on the facts, not nonsense that can be easily disproved.

EVs aren’t going away, no matter how much you rant against them. First World Governments have ordained them and the Auto industry is being fined into submission.

Just be aware of what they can and can’t do, and why, for many people EV’s will make enormous financial sense, and for others they simply won’t.

 

[markjay]

This makes sense if you aren't bothered about owning a thing that delights you and just need to commute to work as cheaply as possible . I cycle or work at home

That's absolutely fine. That's why I never had an AMG, I just don't get the point. My own idea of 'fun' is driving a sublime near-silent silky-smooth S500 on the motorway, not going fast around the bends and being hit with lateral G inside a noisy car with a dental-fillings-extracting suspension. I know, in social gathering I am not exactly the life of the party. But you'd do well buying my used car off me

My point is that some people can't have enough of EV's crazy acceleration. You can beat a C63 on a 0-20mph run with an EV costing half its price. Insane. And Tesla now has cult following.

But I don't drive my EV fast, and I don't race it. I like the tech, and I like that it's super quiet and super smooth, and well built.

I've stated why several times. And said i like EVs in principle. Be obtuse if you prefer

I thought gen z were sensitive, but they've not encountered EV drivers on a forum thread meant as a bit fun

I simply asked which of the EV's (many) limitations you were referring to, as applying to yourself?

 

[noogieman]

Eclectic Vehicles eat tires fast.
I red an article about EV cars and total mileage cost is very steep buying and fitting new larger sized tires on EV cars.
Tires for EV cars wear out much faster than on petrol/diesel cars.

This is something automotive industry doesn't inform about the downside of tire costs.
Buying a Scalextric racetrack is much cheaper and keeing your old petrol car.

Small typo, I ment to write keeping your old car.

Buying a Scalextric racetrack is much cheaper and keeing your old petrol car.

 

[W1ghty]

My flight was delayed last night and arrived in Gatwick at an ungodly hour. I pre-booked an Addison Lee because the trains were only partially running last night. The driver arrived in one of their ID.4 cars that I've seen running around London recently. Not sure how many Gatwick to North West London their ID.4 can do, obviously less than their Diesel Ford Galaxy of old, but saying that an EV "makes sense locally as a small shopping car" sounds like a scripted line that JC would say on the old TC show..........

That’s my current view on EV’s that might have a place in my home , charge at home on the drive for local runs . I either do short few mile drives or 300 to North Wales with a boot full of kit in all weathers .
For me an affordable car that can go to North Wales and back on a full tank in winter however you drive isn’t there yet .
I am sure that battery tech is nearly there but the affordability part for the common man isn’t happening anytime soon .

 

[markjay]

That’s my current view on EV’s that might have a place in my home , charge at home on the drive for local runs . I either do short few mile drives or 300 to North Wales with a boot full of kit in all weathers .
For me an affordable car that can go to North Wales and back on a full tank in winter however you drive isn’t there yet .
I am sure that battery tech is nearly there but the affordability part for the common man isn’t happening anytime soon .

It's not the battery tech that's the limiting factor, it's the charging network.

A 300 mile journey will probably take 4-6 hours, depending on the roads and traffic conditions. A 20-30 minute break is therefore not unreasonable.

The key question is if you are guaranteed to find a fast charger that is free, and working, conveniently located along your route. For the UK, at current the answer in most cases is 'Yes' for Teslas, and a 'Maybe' for all other EVs.

The range issue will be resolved once the charging network is improved nationally. No one drives more that 4-6 hours without taking a break (and if they do, then they shouldn't be driving at all...).

 

[W1ghty]

It's not the battery tech that's the limiting factor, it's the charging network.

A 300 mile journey will probably take 4-6 hours, depending on the roads and traffic conditions. A 20-30 minute break is therefore not unreasonable.

The key question is if you are guaranteed to find a fast charger that is free, and working, conveniently located along your route. For the UK, at current the answer in most cases is 'Yes' for Teslas, and a 'Maybe' for all other EVs.

The range issue will be resolved once the charging network is improved nationally. No one drives more that 4-6 hours without taking a break (and if they do, then they shouldn't be driving at all...).

Exactly, the infrastructure isn’t there yet and it’s a rich man’s game at the moment .
Wouldn’t like Mrs W having to find a charger at night in the winter either on a long run .

 

[markjay]

...it’s a rich man’s game at the moment ....

Not exactly... the people who are in luck are PAYE employees who are given a salary sacrifice option. I suspect that this is how the majority of new EVs that you see on our roads today came to be (as did mine).

Not sure how many people in the UK (if any) actually put on the table £100k for a brand new top Tesla model.

 

[markjay]

Exactly, the infrastructure isn’t there yet...

It is for Teslas... and at any rate it's only the national infrastructure that's the issue. Locally, many Councils installed plenty of public chargers, and in other places people can charge on their driveway using home chargers. So it's only a real problem if you regularly do long journeys, and you can't afford a Tesla.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Yesterday I had a good chat to my two brother in laws who both have a Tesla - one has a Model 3 and one has a Model Y.

The BIL with a Model 3 has done more than 31,000 business miles in the last 12 months, you read that right. He was apprehensive at first about driving such long distances on business, but it was company policy at the business he joined.

He said that with the benefit of real life experience he can say that using the Tesla Supercharger network means that there is ZERO compromise when travelling long distances. He said there are only advantages, the biggest being that he always setting off “brimmed”.

He still has a Discovery for my Sister in Law but I suspect that will change when they next replace my SIL’s car.

 

[clk320x]

He said that with the benefit of real life experience he can say that using the Tesla Supercharger network means that there is ZERO compromise when travelling long distances. He said there are only advantages, the biggest being that he always setting off “brimmed”.

Totally agree. I’ve had exactly the same experience over the last 2 years.

We’ve been all over the U.K and done plenty of continental trips too.

 

[ALFAitalia]

It is for Teslas...

The only Tesla driver i know wild have agreed with that until recently....that changed when Tesla opened up Tesla super chargers to any car with with a CCS connector in May last year.....which means instead of it being free there are queues of Ioniq 5 and the likes on front of him!

 

[markjay]

The only Tesla driver i know wild have agreed with that until recently....that changed when Tesla opened up Tesla super chargers to any car with with a CCS connector in May last year.....which means instead of it being free there are queues of Ioniq 5 and the likes on front of him!

The 'likes' is more likely - sadly there just aren't that many IONIQ 5 on our roads. Only around 9,000 cars were sold all around the UK to date... it's rare to see two of them at the same time, let alone a queue of IONIQ 5s. The Model 3 and model Y sold together around 30,000 cars in the UK.

 

[clk320x]

The only Tesla driver i know wild have agreed with that until recently....that changed when Tesla opened up Tesla super chargers to any car with with a CCS connector in May last year.....which means instead of it being free there are queues of Ioniq 5 and the likes on front of him!

Again this is wrong…

In the U.K. they have only opened up sites which had surplus capacity having looked at the usage data. Only a limited number of sites in the U.K. are currently open to other marques…

I’ve never so far had to queue for a supercharger stall at an ‘open to all site’… as these are the less busy sites anyway.

P.S. when on a trip, the car will always route you via chargers which are less busy/free and it will route minimising stopping time at busy sites to reduce queue formation.

Other marques also pay a high rate per kWh or can subscribe to a monthly membership to unlock a cheaper rate.

As a Tesla owner I initially wasn’t happy with the decision, however I realised it had been done in a way that minimises inconvenience by keeping the more busy sites in the UK exclusive - it also makes sense in the grand scheme of things with the Tesla Mission of ‘accelerating the worlds transition to sustainable energy’….

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Exactly, the infrastructure isn’t there yet and it’s a rich man’s game at the moment .
Wouldn’t like Mrs W having to find a charger at night in the winter either on a long run .

But why would she be looking for a charger on a Wnter’s night on a long run?

How often does she set off to drive 300+ miles mid afternoon in December?

Even when I drive 500 miles in January, I’m setting off early morning AND topping up early afternoon, regardless of the type of fuel I’m using.

 

[ALFAitalia]

I'm not! ....my car rarely gets less much than 700 miles to a tank....750 on a long journey. Largely due to ALFAs decision to put a 70 litre (about 15.4 gallon) tank in such an economical car!
The A Class however seems to get about 5 miles!