80mph speed limits, Pah

[st4]

Driving 40mph on a motorway can lead to a chat with an officer for obstruction so I heard.

I dare say in fog and bad conditions it won't, but the ton limit would only be available in good clear quiet conditions.

They should trial it on the M6 toll.

 

[Bosco]

The correct answer to the OP's question is...

Yes, 100mph for me in my great car because I'm the bestest driver in the whole wide world.
No for you in your sorry ass poor man's car because you don't have my experience and catlike reactions in an emergency.

 

[flango]

There's another thread on driving in Russia: http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/gene...never-go-driving-russia.html?highlight=russia

Let's keep this one on-topic - about whether a 100mph NSL in the UK is sustainable.

Easy answer No because the standard of driving is too poor, lane discipline is shocking and carnage would ensue. I regularly drive up to 150 mph in Germany without issue, lane discipline is good (not perfect) and people move over, but at that speed the consequences of an incident multiply rapidly and what may be a minor shunt at 70mph could be obliteration at 150 mph. Our road surfaces are also not good enough to sustain higher speeds.

To raise the speed limit you have to improve driver education, there's several suggestions gone into white papers such as limiting bhp or engine size of a car depending upon ability. Performance licenses for people wanting to achieve a high standard of driving but the basic problem is that most ADI's in this country are shocking I wouldn't let them take my granny down the shops let alone instruct a pupil. They teach people how to pass a test not how to drive and there in lies the problem some of the things my daughter was being taught were downright dangerous, when I challenged the Instructor he said that's how he had been taught to teach at Instructor college, when I confronted VOSA they were amazed pupils were being taught in this manner.

Improve driver education and road surfaces and we can raise the speed limit but until then I'm happy with the discretion of the traffic cops who pay no attention up to 85 mph as long as you are driving safely and not doing anything stupid.

 

[renault12ts]

Easy answer No because the standard of driving is too poor, lane discipline is shocking and carnage would ensue. I regularly drive up to 150 mph in Germany without issue, lane discipline is good (not perfect) and people move over, but at that speed the consequences of an incident multiply rapidly and what may be a minor shunt at 70mph could be obliteration at 150 mph. Our road surfaces are also not good enough to sustain higher speeds.

To raise the speed limit you have to improve driver education, there's several suggestions gone into white papers such as limiting bhp or engine size of a car depending upon ability. Performance licenses for people wanting to achieve a high standard of driving but the basic problem is that most ADI's in this country are shocking I wouldn't let them take my granny down the shops let alone instruct a pupil. They teach people how to pass a test not how to drive and there in lies the problem some of the things my daughter was being taught were downright dangerous, when I challenged the Instructor he said that's how he had been taught to teach at Instructor college, when I confronted VOSA they were amazed pupils were being taught in this manner.

Improve driver education and road surfaces and we can raise the speed limit but until then I'm happy with the discretion of the traffic cops who pay no attention up to 85 mph as long as you are driving safely and not doing anything stupid.

Interesting, can you give a couple of examples of what she was being taught?

 

[flango]

Interesting, can you give a couple of examples of what she was being taught?

2 of the worst ones were she was taught NOT to look over her shoulder when entering a dual carriage way but rely on the door mirror only and that she did NOT have to signal on the entry or exit of a mini roundabout.

Outrageous In my book.

 

[MOCAŠ]

2 of the worst ones were she was taught NOT to look over her shoulder when entering a dual carriage way but rely on the door mirror only and that she did NOT have to signal on the entry or exit of a mini roundabout.

Outrageous In my book.

The first moreso than the second.

 

[flango]

The first moreso than the second.

I agree not checking the blind spot is stupidity of the highest order

 

[st4]

2 of the worst ones were she was taught NOT to look over her shoulder when entering a dual carriage way but rely on the door mirror only and that she did NOT have to signal on the entry or exit of a mini roundabout.

Outrageous In my book.

Seriously, not how I was taught by ADI (he was a rally instructor too at Knock Hill)

That would fail you a driving test NOT signalling on entry or exit, and doing a blind spot check...

I still think there are some bits, well a lot where a ton would work

 

[MOCAŠ]

I agree not checking the blind spot is stupidity of the highest order

Was she taught never to do this, even when changing lanes, or just when entering a dual carriageway? And what was the instructor's reasoning?

 

[flango]

Was she taught never to do this, even when changing lanes, or just when entering a dual carriageway? And what was the instructor's reasoning?

Taught never to do it on entry deemed unnecessary on modern cars with wide angle mirrors was taught to do it though on lane changes

 

[renault12ts]

Taught never to do it on entry deemed unnecessary on modern cars with wide angle mirrors was taught to do it though on lane changes

That's quite an assumption...a) that you would be driving a modern car, and B) that the mirrors were set correctly. Sometimes you have to despair. The biker fraternity refer to it as the "lifesaver" with good reason.

 

[bedwards1966]

2 of the worst ones were she was taught NOT to look over her shoulder when entering a dual carriage way but rely on the door mirror only and that she did NOT have to signal on the entry or exit of a mini roundabout.

Outrageous In my book.

I'm quite sure that if she did as instructed, at least for the mini roundabout issue, the test would be failed as each time would, at best, award a minor point. On entering a dual carriageway that might be considered a dangerous fault and instant failure, I'm not sure on that one.

The general consensus is that German cars, particularly MB are not what they used to be. Many on here and elsewhere believe that the W124 was the last great engineering exercise from MB...and that the subsequent E classes are but a pale reflection of that car.

The Euro Ncap rates the present Corsa as 5 star. The present C class is also 5 star. This does suggest the Corsa would be better than a W202, or W210. Edit...w202 is a 2 star.

No, they aren't what they once were - not many manufacturers are. But they still make very well engineered that are well designed, and capable of safely travelling at speed. I wonder what your doing on a Mercedes forum...?

Euro Ncap ratings should not be taken as meaning much in many cases. Firstly (though not relevant in this case) the ratings are only taken compared to a car in the same weight class, so if you get an 800kg Smart car into a 2 ton 4x4, even if they have the same ratings it doesn't take a genius to figure out the result. Equal rating, different consequences in real life.
Secondly, it tests the crash. Not the characteristics of a vehicle which might enable the driver to stop more quickly, swerve or accelerate and thus avoiding the accident in the first place.
Thirdly, it does not test what might happen to a vehicle after the crash - if I get a bang in my W202 which is (relatively speaking) built like a tank and a Corsa (relatively speaking made out of paper and spit) gets the same thing, which vehicle is made more strongly and is likely to retain working parts and continue to steer and brake to safety?
Fourth and final note, cars are designed to achieve the highest possible safety rating. Bear in mind that this means passing certain tests, for a certain impact type, including hitting pedestrians. I understand, at least with the older Mercs, that they were designed to be safe (for the occupants), not to pass a certain test - i.e that they might not come out top of the Euro Ncap criteria, but will perform better than other cars in other collision types not tested for, including the things mentioned above. Remember, at least a few years ago, MB didn't have to sell on having a high Euro Ncap rating, people buying them weren't doing so because of a star rating, so they could afford to put some of their safety into different crash scenarios. I'd hate to be hit by one as a pedestrian compared to some other cars out there, but as a driver I would rather have a car with a lower rating that's dragged down by annihilating pedestrians but that protects me.
So, in short, just because a Corsa might have a higher star rating than my Merc, does not make it safe to travel at the same speeds. When a Corsa or similar starts wallowing round at 90, and a blow-out at 80 results in the car coming to a halt on it's roof, my car will be perfectly safe at 120 or more. If I have a blow-out, then a good car and an experienced driver who resists the urge to hit the brake has a very good chance of getting out of the car with both him and the car intact.

 

[renault12ts]

No, they aren't what they once were - not many manufacturers are. But they still make very well engineered that are well designed, and capable of safely travelling at speed. I wonder what your doing on a Mercedes forum...?

Steady...no need to get personal. Can you name any car currently sold, which is not capable of travelling safely at the speeds they can do?

 

[flango]

I'm quite sure that if she did as instructed, at least for the mini roundabout issue, the test would be failed as each time would, at best, award a minor point. On entering a dual carriageway that might be considered a dangerous fault and instant failure, I'm not sure on that one.

The not checking blindspot is recorded as a minor if it causes no danger, if it causes danger then it is a fail. The mini roundabout and not signalling are recorded as minors.

 

[markjay]

Research does show that road deaths go up with speed limit - though there are many variables that affect this.

The point is that with a speed limit of zero there will be no road deaths, with no speed limit there will be few survivors (OK, this is an exaggeration...). So it's really a question where we draw the line, and what is acceptable to us a society.

Bring the speed limit up by 10mph, and a few more people will die, take it down by 10mph, and a few more people will live... but we already know that the only way to achieve zero deaths is by abolishing the motorcar altogether (which, by itself, will actually cause more deaths overall due to lack of ambulances, powered fire-engines, etc etc...).

So in short I think the discussion should not revolve over the Marathon Man question - 'is it safe?' - instead we should be discussing how to best go about it and maintain the highest level of safety possible.

That is, after we get it past the Greens - US speed limits were originally imposed in order to save fuel, I have no doubt that UK environmentalists will have their say on Motorway speed limit increases.

 

[BTB 500]

with no speed limit there will be few survivors (OK, this is an exaggeration...)

I've survived motorways with no speed limits many times! They've had them in Germany for decades.

 

[MOCAŠ]

I've survived motorways with no speed limits many times! They've had them in Germany for decades.

We used to have one here. What we now regard as the NSL road sign originally meant "speed limit ends".

 

[markjay]

I've survived motorways with no speed limits many times! They've had them in Germany for decades.

Reading it again... it should have probably said... no survivors in case of a crash

 

[st4]

I've survived motorways with no speed limits many times! They've had them in Germany for decades.

This is a great argument....

People say that cars have moved on and are more capable than they were, but the speed kills brigade say that drivers have not...

True, but the Germans have sections with no limits, and there is plenty of them....

People are people, whether they are German, British, French etc so why are the Germans superior to us, and the French.

We ought to have our old rules back, speed limits end, with more pro-active speed limited areas where there is a risk of travelling at high speed ending badly.

 

[renault12ts]

This is a great argument....

People say that cars have moved on and are more capable than they were, but the speed kills brigade say that drivers have not...

True, but the Germans have sections with no limits, and there is plenty of them....

People are people, whether they are German, British, French etc so why are the Germans superior to us, and the French.

We ought to have our old rules back, speed limits end, with more pro-active speed limited areas where there is a risk of travelling at high speed ending badly.

Unfortunately this doesn't seem to be true. If you want high speed motorways, then you better have a populace capable of using them. The one thing that predicates against this happening in the Uk is the abysmal lack of lane discipline. In my experience French lane discipline is excellent.