I don't think any 'standard' diesel (branded or supermarket) contains detergent additives - that's the point of 'premium' branded ones like V-Power. Unleaded is a bit different as the premium fuels there have a higher octane rating as well.
95 Ron or 99 shell v-power derv??
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I don't think any 'standard' diesel (branded or supermarket) contains detergent additives - that's the point of 'premium' branded ones like V-Power. Unleaded is a bit different as the premium fuels there have a higher octane rating as well.
As far as I know, all UK standard fuels, diesel and gasoline, contain additive packages that include among other things, some detergent chemistry.
Premium diesel fuels either have additive up-treat or more expensive (and more effective) additives that for example provide enhanced cleaning properties. They may also include GTL (a very clean burning, high cetane component). These enhancements and reduced scale of production/sales, make the finished fuel more expensive per litre to produce, but there is also a marketing element to the final pricing at the pump. It’s worth keeping in mind that typically there is more profit margin in a Mars bar than there is in a litre of fuel. Selling fuel to the motorist is not where the major oil companies make their money.
In the end, premium fuels (gasoline and diesel) offer the consumer a choice at a particular price difference compared to regular fuels. The differences in properties claimed by the manufacturer are in my experience, real and measurable. It’s up to the customer to decide if they want to run on regular or premium fuels.
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I always took the term 'supermarket fuel' as simply describing the cheapest variant of fuel available from any certain supplier, regardless of where it was physically purchased.
I don't think that the cheapest petrol or diesel purchased at Tesco or Morrisons will be substantially different from the cheapest product available from Esso or Texaco? They will all probably be made to meet the minimum BS standard and that's about it - basic fuels are a very price-sensitive market.
It's where suppliers are able to charge more for additive packs that exceed the minimum standard, that the differences are likely to be found - i.e. when comparing premium fuels from different suppliers.
I don't think that the cheapest petrol or diesel purchased at Tesco or Morrisons will be substantially different from the cheapest product available from Esso or Texaco? They will all probably be made to meet the minimum BS standard and that's about it - basic fuels are a very price-sensitive market.
It's where suppliers are able to charge more for additive packs that exceed the minimum standard, that the differences are likely to be found - i.e. when comparing premium fuels from different suppliers.
Fuels comprise ‘base fuel’ plus a basic minimum ‘refinery’ additive package designed mainly to help with processing and storage. These fuels comply with EN:228 or EN:590 for gasoline and diesel respectively, but that doesn’t mean they are all exactly the same. It only means that they comply with the relevant inspection properties.
If you think about the scale, providing on-demand fuel for many millions of cars, trucks, buses and so on is a huge challenge. So, regular and some premium base fuels are produced by all the manufacturers and these are shared across the network as ‘exchange’ fuels.
When these exchange fuels are drawn down from bulk storage into the road tanker, the final additive package pertinent to the brand associated with the final product, is added by an injection system to make the finished fuel. These final additive packages may or may not be standard or proprietary technology/chemistry. Clearly one approach is more expensive than the other.
However, some premium fuels are not exchange fuels. They are instead manufactured and supplied to forecourts for a particular manufacturer/brand. These fuels can be quite different from exchange fuels and they may (and likely do) have more additives that may well comprise different chemistry to those in other fuels. Producing fuels this way is more costly per litre than it is to produce exchange products. It does however make for unique opportunities for the developers, marketers and of course the consumer.
In the UK the overwhelming majority of fuel from any forecourt is very likely of good quality.
The supermarkets have differences in storage/transportation/handling though, which have certainly caused contamination etc. issues at their forecourts in the past. Of course there are very few compared to the volume of fuel they shift.
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Are fuel storage facilities under supermarket forecourts different to those under petrol station forecourts? Genuine question.
Sorry, by storage I meant bulk tanks at terminals/depots etc. E.g.
2007 United Kingdom petrol contamination - Wikipedia
The main issue (and to some extent sympathy) I have with supermarket and independent ‘white pump’ providers, is that they have to totally rely on whoever it is that puts the fuels in their forecourt. They do not specify or blend up the fuels any more than they grow the fruit and veg they sell.
I know of one case where a supermarket fuel supplier screwed up by blending recycled (lower cost), but ultimately contaminated material into a base fuel, that damaged thousands of cars. The supermarket was in the papers at the time and had to apologise, but the fuel supplier escaped the publicity.
No, they are typically the same. Forecourt construction is pretty well regulated as far as I know, and quite often built by the same people using the same pumps and tanks right across the piece.
What I've noticed is that additives do make a difference to the smooth running of diesels I've owned. The additives have been ones I've bought and some experiments with small quantities of acetone - they all make things run smoother. But at the end of the day its still a diesel engine so its never going to be silky smooth.
I've not noticed any difference in economy though. Neither did the brief uses of "premium " diesel but I might not have used it long enough for the results to be measurable (but that tells me its not a big effect!)
I've also had some pretty high mileage ones that have run mainly on cheap fuel that have never exhibited any evidence of carbonisation or negative effects of this.
One potential problem of using additives in a high mileage car which hasn't regularly used them is it can "clean" the tank, resulting in rubbish moving further down the fuel system into the filter. I suppose that's what filters are for, so be prepared to change one if additives have the opposite effect to what you were expecting!
My conclusion is that in this country, we have pretty good fuel from all sources, and marketing is making the most of what are for most people pretty slim gains. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and I see no real evidence that using premium fuels stops it breaking either.
I've not noticed any difference in economy though. Neither did the brief uses of "premium " diesel but I might not have used it long enough for the results to be measurable (but that tells me its not a big effect!)
I've also had some pretty high mileage ones that have run mainly on cheap fuel that have never exhibited any evidence of carbonisation or negative effects of this.
One potential problem of using additives in a high mileage car which hasn't regularly used them is it can "clean" the tank, resulting in rubbish moving further down the fuel system into the filter. I suppose that's what filters are for, so be prepared to change one if additives have the opposite effect to what you were expecting!
My conclusion is that in this country, we have pretty good fuel from all sources, and marketing is making the most of what are for most people pretty slim gains. If it ain't broke, don't fix it, and I see no real evidence that using premium fuels stops it breaking either.
Deposits in the injector take a while to build up, so there is a gradual decline in spray ‘quality’ over time typically in the form of increased droplet size, droplet distribution less uniform and possibly reduced injected fuel mass. Likewise, cleaning up the injector deposits, which is possible by using premium diesel, takes a while too. Because theses change occurs over time, it’s quite difficult to perceive by doing an A-B drive, though the changes can be measured in the lab.
My suggestion to anyone buying a used Diesel engined car would be to run three tankfuls of premium (say 1500 miles) which will clean up the injectors, and thereafter run using regular diesel from a reputable supplier with the occasional tankful of premium.
geoffus
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I think the jury is still out on this one, how do you know your injectors are getting dirty on modern diesel and how would you know they are being cleaned by the use of additives. If your engine is running clean and easily passes MOT emissions then isn’t standard fuel doing a good job anyway ?
Last programme I was involved with, our lab used an electron microscope and X-Ray defraction to measure and analyse the injector deposits to evaluate the additive technology we were developing. However, that was before I retired, maybe things are different now.
The emissions check carried out as part of the MoT is not really an emissions test. For that you need a proper lab.
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The MOT emission levels are just arbitrary legal thresholds. You should compare your engine's current emissions to the manufacturer's specification for new engine in order to appreciate if there's any deterioration. Or you could possibly put all of the emissions values from the past MOTs starting from when the car was 3 years old (if you have it) in an excel spreadsheet and see if there's a pattern or a trend.
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geoffus
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Now that is a great idea, you would maybe have to allow a little tolerance for general wear but would be interesting.
The adverts i've seen for additives show remarkable visual improvements.
Gazwould
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Cost is £1 to a tank .
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I couldn't agree more.
When younger, used to take engines apart, and gumming and deposits in inlet manifolds, carburetors, and injectors were the norm.
In 2001 I bought a 4 months old Vauxhall Omega 2.6L with 6,400 miles on the clock. I religiously added Redex to every thankful. In 2006, with 40 000 miles on the clock, I removed the injector rail while replacing the cam cover gaskets (common fault on the Elsmere Port V6 unit), and was surprised to see nothing but shiny metal, squeaky-clean injectors, and no sign of stains or deposits anywhere where fuel flows.
I don't need any further proof....
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Mattboocock
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Yeah I put some esso premium derv in at the weekend and it maybe my imagination but the V6 lump does feel smoother!? Even a little quicker?!I always use V-Power/ BP Ultimate/ Costco premium diesel. I swear my 2.0 tdi Golf is as smooth as a V12 Roller with it
Joking aside , the engines on both our V6 diesels do run smoother on it.
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Mattboocock
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Have you noticed any difference in smoothness or miles on tank etc? Or does it just keep everything clean..?
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Mattboocock
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Gazwould
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Clean but smoothness and sound improvement with a old VAG 1.9 PD with 2 Stroke oil and 2-EHN .
