Advise On faulty product that led to an accident

[markjay]

The original MB wheels on my previous Merc (W203) were manufactured by Ronal, anyone knows who makes them these days?

 

[shyam27]

a. We have an 1997 Toyota Previa that we had from new and is still going strong. So I can't argue with you about Japanese cars' reliability.


b. Having said that... your post above is OT. This thread is not about the reliability of MB wheel rims. It's about MB's corporate culture of blame shifting. And unfortunately in this respect MB are no different to any other multinational corporation, including Japanese ones. See for example:

Toyota to pay $1.3 billion for deadly defect cover-up - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

So do you really think that Toyota (or Nissan, or Suzuki, or Mazda, or Subaru) would have accepted liability for the accident caused by a poorly-made wheel rim?

Or, let's put it this way, if you plan on buying a Japanese car simply because you assume that the manufacturer will come clean in the first instance in the event of a potentiality-lethal manufacturing defect... then all I can say is Good Luck with that.


c. Where I do think MB got it wrong on this occasion, is not so much in not accepting legal liability in the first instance (as I said, no other corporation would either), but in not making a goodwill offer, given the proximity of the rim failure to the purchase date.

a. Good for you.

b. It’s not over the top, I’m am just stating facts. For you to point out that this thread is not about reliability of MB wheel rims is a dumb statement. I’ve merely presented my opinion following OP’s synopsis.

c. It is funny that you should bring up the case with Toyota. Let’s look at the cause of the accidents. It happened that the floor mat design on driver side were causing accelerator pedal to get stuck, sending them for 6.

d. In US market, left hand drive driver mats would have been designed and manufactured by Toyota in US locations. Funnily enough, this is most likely the fault of an American designer who worked for Toyota.

e. Bottom line is Toyota messed up on the design of a floor mat. Are you really going to compare that to the recalls we’ve had from the politically protected MB? At least Toyota’s aren’t spontaneously setting of fire or being fitted with faulty air bag units.

Global recall of 1 million Mercedes cars over fire risk 'could include 75,000 in UK'

Mercedes just recalled 400,000 cars in the UK

f. You force me to digress. You blinded so much by the MB fog that you are completely oblivious to the words I have written. Can you please tell me where I mentioned anything about buying a Japanese car because I would assume the manufacturer to come clean?? Please can you quote it because you’ve lost me here. For someone who comes across as reasonably intelligent, you’ve caused me to reconsider that on two occasions now.

g. I did not say that. Let me reiterate.

h. On the basis of the 2017 reliability index, you are far less likely to encounter issues with a Japanese manufactured car, than you are with a Mercedes Benz.

i. Mercedes Benz are essentially, now, the same reliability as Fiat. Until they step up their game and improve their score in this year's reliability index, I see every Mercedes Benz in the same light as a Fiat.

k. I also imagine those who are liking the comments which attack other members opinion as licking that persons ass. That’s right, carry on ass licking.

 

[shyam27]

One rather wonders why you are on this forum, devoted as it is to shitty cars. You don't seem to add much, so perhaps you should return to the woodwork you mention...

Don't wonder, it's none of your business.

Although if you look, you will see I also own a MB, allbeit from an older generation. I love old mercs..

I'm not devoted to shitty cars, I'm just here to warn people against them. (y) Just ignore me if you don't like what I have to say.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

Angry people fascinate me.

 

[markjay]

a. Good for you.

b. It’s not over the top, I’m am just stating facts. For you to point out that this thread is not about reliability of MB wheel rims is a dumb statement. I’ve merely presented my opinion following OP’s synopsis.

c. It is funny that you should bring up the case with Toyota. Let’s look at the cause of the accidents. It happened that the floor mat design on driver side were causing accelerator pedal to get stuck, sending them for 6.

d. In US market, left hand drive driver mats would have been designed and manufactured by Toyota in US locations. Funnily enough, this is most likely the fault of an American designer who worked for Toyota.

e. Bottom line is Toyota messed up on the design of a floor mat. Are you really going to compare that to the recalls we’ve had from the politically protected MB? At least Toyota’s aren’t spontaneously setting of fire or being fitted with faulty air bag units.

Global recall of 1 million Mercedes cars over fire risk 'could include 75,000 in UK'

Mercedes just recalled 400,000 cars in the UK

f. You force me to digress. You blinded so much by the MB fog that you are completely oblivious to the words I have written. Can you please tell me where I mentioned anything about buying a Japanese car because I would assume the manufacturer to come clean?? Please can you quote it because you’ve lost me here. For someone who comes across as reasonably intelligent, you’ve caused me to reconsider that on two occasions now.

g. I did not say that. Let me reiterate.

h. On the basis of the 2017 reliability index, you are far less likely to encounter issues with a Japanese manufactured car, than you are with a Mercedes Benz.

i. Mercedes Benz are essentially, now, the same reliability as Fiat. Until they step up their game and improve their score in this year's reliability index, I see every Mercedes Benz in the same light as a Fiat.

k. I also imagine those who are liking the comments which attack other members opinion as licking that persons ass. That’s right, carry on ass licking.

Apologies if my post caused offence. You seem pretty upset about it. This was not my intention.

Regarding the floor mat theory... a lot of water passed under that bridge, this was the original assumption until a faulty accelerator pedal linkage was found to be the cause. And it affected Toyota cars worldwide, i.e. not just in the US. Have a read here:

Toyota Unintended Acceleration Report on Seelio

But setting aside the technical aspects of the Toyota recall, and back on-topic, the link in my post above was not about the cause of the recall, but about the fact that Toyota was fined $1.3bn for not disclosing at an earlier stage what they already knew, and for denying liability for several months up to the point when they were presented with irrefutable proof.

In fact this led to the almost unprecedented (in Japan) public apology made by Toyota's CEO Akio Toyoda in 2010:

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My point is, again, that it will be an uphill struggle for the OP to get any car manufacturer (of shitty cars or otherwise) to accept a liability for a potentially-fatal failure.

And also to reiterate that Toyota were not fined for the mechanical failure itself, this was settled in civil law suits made by survivors and victims' family members, but for not hiding information from investigators and for not accepting responsibility in the first instance.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Who was that bloke who took on MB over some problem with his S class?

As I recall he became obsessed, made it personal, dug his heels in, skinted himself and never drove his expensive car again.

Might be worth the OP looking up the thread for tips on how not to do things.

There is also a video somewhere of a disgruntled MB owner beating the shut out of his 'faulty' MB outside the dealership with a golf club (I think) seems he had a problem with the dealer.

 

[E55BOF]

k. I also imagine those who are liking the comments which attack other members opinion as licking that persons ass. That’s right, carry on ass licking.

You have a fertile imagination. You misunderstand, however; I wasn't attacking your opinion, I was attacking you. This was intentional.

(y) Just ignore me if you don't like what I have to say.

(z). I never ignore anybody; even the greatest fool may sometimes have something useful to say.

 

[shyam27]

Apologies if my post caused offence. You seem pretty upset about it. This was not my intention.

Regarding the floor mat theory... a lot of water passed under that bridge, this was the original assumption until a faulty accelerator pedal linkage was found to be the cause. And it affected Toyota cars worldwide, i.e. not just in the US. Have a read here:

Toyota Unintended Acceleration Report on Seelio

But setting aside the technical aspects of the Toyota recall, and back on-topic, the link in my post above was not about the cause of the recall, but about the fact that Toyota was fined $1.3bn for not disclosing at an earlier stage what they already knew, and for denying liability for several months up to the point when they were presented with irrefutable proof.

In fact this led to the almost unprecedented (in Japan) public apology made by Toyota's CEO Akio Toyoda in 2010:

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

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My point is, again, that it will be an uphill struggle for the OP to get any car manufacturer (of shitty cars or otherwise) to accept a liability for a potentially-fatal failure.

And also to reiterate that Toyota were not fined for the mechanical failure itself, this was settled in civil law suits made by survivors and victims' family members, but for not hiding information from investigators and for not accepting responsibility in the first instance.

Markyjay, I'm not upset dude. I very sparsely use this forum and post my opinions occasionally now and again.

When I have left for a few days and then come back to find responses to my opinion, almost to the extent that people are putting words in my mouth that I haven't said, it's somewhat triggering. Especially when you yourself have posted a couple of times before returning to reply to my comment. It's almost like a personal attack.

When I made my suggestion, I was not taking consideration of how dealerships would respond to a fault that caused you to crash your car, etc.

I should imagine that most people don't think about that when buying a new car. They would prefer to buy a car with full confidence without the risk of your vehicle losing control, going off the road whilst your wife and kids are in the car. But now, I can tell that this sort of thinking is almost like a evolved defence mechanism for modern/new Mercedes owners.

You shouldn't need to be concerned in the first place about how you will be treated if something like OP's story were to occur is my point.

What I am simply saying is that if you chose a Japanese car, it is FAR LESS LIKELY to happen to you in the first place if you buy jap then if you had bought a new Mercedes Benz. Reference 2017 Car Reliability Index.

I have not mentioned anything about the legalities or commercial aspects involved in proceeding with such a dispute. It's a very time and money consuming process which is not desirable for anyone. I merely suggested an X-ray if he would like to pursue this for evidence or even just personal closure.

 

[markjay]

Markyjay, I'm not upset dude. I very sparsely use this forum and post my opinions occasionally now and again.

When I have left for a few days and then come back to find responses to my opinion, almost to the extent that people are putting words in my mouth that I haven't said, it's somewhat triggering. Especially when you yourself have posted a couple of times before returning to reply to my comment. It's almost like a personal attack.

When I made my suggestion, I was not taking consideration of how dealerships would respond to a fault that caused you to crash your car, etc.

I should imagine that most people don't think about that when buying a new car. They would prefer to buy a car with full confidence without the risk of your vehicle losing control, going off the road whilst your wife and kids are in the car. But now, I can tell that this sort of thinking is almost like a evolved defence mechanism for modern/new Mercedes owners.

You shouldn't need to be concerned in the first place about how you will be treated if something like OP's story were to occur is my point.

What I am simply saying is that if you chose a Japanese car, it is FAR LESS LIKELY to happen to you in the first place if you buy jap then if you had bought a new Mercedes Benz. Reference 2017 Car Reliability Index.

I have not mentioned anything about the legalities or commercial aspects involved in proceeding with such a dispute. It's a very time and money consuming process which is not desirable for anyone. I merely suggested an X-ray if he would like to pursue this for evidence or even just personal closure.

Based on:

Top 100 UK Cars | Reliability Index | How reliable is your car?

I agree that if you buy a Toyota IQ, Mitsubishi Lancer, Vauxhall Agilla, ot Hyundai Getz then statistically you are less likely to experience faults with the car. And yes the highest-ranking Mercedes on this list is only in 8th place.

(This presumably applies to cars aged 3 years or older, because the only people who have the reliability data for new cars are the manufacturers themselves, and they are not likely to make it public.)

Said that, there are many factors that affect the choice of car: safety, performance, practicality, image, trim level and accessories, aesthetics, price, etc etc.

Ultimately for some people the right choice will be a car that does not rank very high on the reliability index.

For this reason it is important to see how manufacturers respond when presented with an issue.

And sadly based on the experience so far (Toyota and others) the situation does not seem very promising.

 

[Deleted96908]

Don't wonder, it's none of your business.

Although if you look, you will see I also own a MB, allbeit from an older generation. I love old mercs..

I'm not devoted to shitty cars, I'm just here to warn people against them. (y) Just ignore me if you don't like what I have to say.

The thing is @shyam27, you need to be a little more aware of your surroundings. As much as I've enjoyed your Japanese car posts, you are posting amongst, mostly, die hard Mercedes lovers. And you know, when you criticise a car a man loves, it's a bit like criticising his wife. And we all know where that ends up. So give a little and see the love that comes back .

I agree that if you buy a Toyota IQ

My son loves his. At first he wanted the usual lad's motor, but when he realised it never broke down and cost pennies to run generally, he's thought differently. Brilliantly packaged and room for 3, although I've seen legs hanging out of the hatch!

 

[markjay]

The thing is @shyam27, you need to be a little more aware of your surroundings. As much as I've enjoyed your Japanese car posts, you are posting amongst, mostly, die hard Mercedes lovers..

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[shyam27]

The thing is @shyam27, you need to be a little more aware of your surroundings. As much as I've enjoyed your Japanese car posts, you are posting amongst, mostly, die hard Mercedes lovers. And you know, when you criticise a car a man loves, it's a bit like criticising his wife. And we all know where that ends up. So give a little and see the love that comes back .

My son loves his. At first he wanted the usual lad's motor, but when he realised it never broke down and cost pennies to run generally, he's thought differently. Brilliantly packaged and room for 3, although I've seen legs hanging out of the hatch!

Ah you know what. When you say it like that, I kinda feel a bit guilty.

To everyone,

I'm deeply sorry for being so naive. I have just realised that I'm taking the piss out of everyone's pride and joy here when I categorically criticise new/modern MB.

So yeah guys, please accept my apologies. As much as I empathise with OP, I should stay considerate of other peoples feelings.

The environment I've grown up in caused me to be painfully blunt and honest. I speak my opinions as I think them, without any cushioning.

Now, I'm not saying it's a good reason to put words in my mouth. But I hope you can understand, to some extent, why I say those things. It's not to put anyone down, I saw it myself as raising awareness.

I will try to be more sensitive to members feelings from now on.

Thanks.

 

[Deleted96908]

Ah you know what. When you say it like that, I kinda feel a bit guilty.

To everyone,

I'm deeply sorry for being so naive. I have just realised that I'm taking the piss out of everyone's pride and joy here when I categorically criticise new/modern MB.

So yeah guys, please accept my apologies. As much as I empathise with OP, I should stay considerate of other peoples feelings.

The environment I've grown up in caused me to be painfully blunt and honest. I speak my opinions as I think them, without any cushioning.

Now, I'm not saying it's a good reason to put words in my mouth. But I hope you can understand, to some extent, why I say those things. It's not to put anyone down, I saw it myself as raising awareness.

I will try to be more sensitive to members feelings from now on.

Thanks.

Cool and be would great to see more photos. Love detail like seat fabric, pedals, instruments, engine cover, manifolds etc.

 

[shyam27]

Cool and be would great to see more photos. Love detail like seat fabric, pedals, instruments, engine cover, manifolds etc.

Don't think the others will share the same enthusiasm.. haha

DM me. We can talk about it in private. I'll shoot over some pictures.

 

[DuFFmAn]

Hi mate,

You could consider engaging solicitors via any legal cover you may have under your home or car insurance policy?

Depending on how much cash you have and willingness to spend more money than it’s worth, an expert metallurgist analysis might set you back around £5,000.

You could discuss your options with your appointed solicitor.

I come from an insurance claims background so happy to chat offline if you wish.

Thanks.

 

[Ted]

OP hasn’t been on since the day after he started the thread in August.

 

[DuFFmAn]

Oh well... hopefully the infos useful to anyone in the same unfortunate position!

 

[Fastcar155]

a. Good for you.

b. It’s not over the top, I’m am just stating facts. For you to point out that this thread is not about reliability of MB wheel rims is a dumb statement. I’ve merely presented my opinion following OP’s synopsis.

c. It is funny that you should bring up the case with Toyota. Let’s look at the cause of the accidents. It happened that the floor mat design on driver side were causing accelerator pedal to get stuck, sending them for 6.

d. In US market, left hand drive driver mats would have been designed and manufactured by Toyota in US locations. Funnily enough, this is most likely the fault of an American designer who worked for Toyota.

e. Bottom line is Toyota messed up on the design of a floor mat. Are you really going to compare that to the recalls we’ve had from the politically protected MB? At least Toyota’s aren’t spontaneously setting of fire or being fitted with faulty air bag units.

Global recall of 1 million Mercedes cars over fire risk 'could include 75,000 in UK'

Mercedes just recalled 400,000 cars in the UK

f. You force me to digress. You blinded so much by the MB fog that you are completely oblivious to the words I have written. Can you please tell me where I mentioned anything about buying a Japanese car because I would assume the manufacturer to come clean?? Please can you quote it because you’ve lost me here. For someone who comes across as reasonably intelligent, you’ve caused me to reconsider that on two occasions now.

g. I did not say that. Let me reiterate.

h. On the basis of the 2017 reliability index, you are far less likely to encounter issues with a Japanese manufactured car, than you are with a Mercedes Benz.

i. Mercedes Benz are essentially, now, the same reliability as Fiat. Until they step up their game and improve their score in this year's reliability index, I see every Mercedes Benz in the same light as a Fiat.

k. I also imagine those who are liking the comments which attack other members opinion as licking that persons ass. That’s right, carry on ass licking.

Hi , My daughter has a 13 plate Fiat 500.

Whist I understand your comparison with Fiats in general if my daughter's car is representative of a typical Fiat product how times have changed over product quality.

Not a rattle from the car. A fiend of mine albeit many years ago told me that generally Mercedes quality from South African cars was excellent !

 

[JHS]

Hi , My daughter has a 13 plate Fiat 500.

Whist I understand your comparison with Fiats in general if my daughter's car is representative of a typical Fiat product how times have changed over product quality.

Not a rattle from the car. A fiend of mine albeit many years ago told me that generally Mercedes quality from South African cars was excellent !

You do realise that you are responding on a 4 year old thread. Most of the participants have long moved on.

 

[geoffus]

You do realise that you are responding on a 4 year old thread. Most of the participants have long moved on.

Most have joined the Fiat forum.