Almost had a huge crash on the M25

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Riva811

Active Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2018
Messages
988
Location
London
Car
CL500 Blueefficiency
Weird situtation but I was in lane 4 and a car was stopped with emergency lights on in lane 1. a lorry almost hit the stopped car (texting?) but change lane last minute which triggered a cascade of lane changes; jaguar in lane 2 jumped to lane 3 and a tiny corsa with a guy and his young son from lane 3 in lane 4 right in front of me. Thankfully my reaction time was good and the car managed to stop from 70mph in short distance. Otherwise the guy infront of me would of launched into orbit with his young child inside...
 
Weird situtation but I was in lane 4 and a car was stopped with emergency lights on in lane 1. a lorry almost hit the stopped car (texting?) but change lane last minute which triggered a cascade of lane changes; jaguar in lane 2 jumped to lane 3 and a tiny corsa with a guy and his young son from lane 3 in lane 4 right in front of me. Thankfully my reaction time was good and the car managed to stop from 70mph in short distance. Otherwise the guy infront of me would of launched into orbit with his young child inside...
Lucky buddy , sounds like a dashcam moment
 
Glad to hear that you managed to avoid being involved in an RTA, and obviously that no one was hurt.

I am guessing that when you spotted the car stopped in lane 1 with its hazard lights on, being an experienced driver you instinctively took your foot of the accelerator, followed by a slight adrenalin rush. You may not have been able to verbalise the exact potential outcome, but you have to some extent anticipated it. If the above is true, then the fact that you were alert and concentrating on the road ahead, resulted in your speed going down and you were ready and primed for taking evasive or preventative action, which must have helped you avoid a collision.

And yet some drivers still query why their premiums go up when they are involved in no-fault accidents.... because a good driver will manage to avoid most (though obviously not all) collisions, even those that are not their fault.

Well Done to you.
 
Glad to hear that you managed to avoid being involved in an RTA, and obviously that no one was hurt.

I am guessing that when you spotted the car stopped in lane 1 with its hazard lights on, being an experienced driver you instinctively took your foot of the accelerator, followed by a slight adrenalin rush. You may not have been able to verbalise the exact potential outcome, but you have to some extent anticipated it. If the above is true, then the fact that you were alert and concentrating on the road ahead, resulted in your speed going down and you were ready and primed for taking evasive or preventative action, which must have helped you avoid a collision.

And yet some drivers still query why their premiums go up when they are involved in no-fault accidents.... because a good driver will manage to avoid most (though obviously not all) collisions, even those that are not their fault.

Well Done to you.
My dad is one of them, he is never at fault but he drives aggressively and with a bit of an ego, has a high premium unless he puts a high voluntary excess or a divine monitoring gadget
.
My only concern about flooring it on the highway was will the next guy behind me coming at 70mph if not more stop in time? I barely stopped for 5 seconds but still I saw a guy in my rear in no time.
 
In light of today's news(Hands-free driving could be made legal on UK roads), how would a (semi) autonomous car have dealt with that situation....

Car would either brake as the lorry pulled out or steered away from it assuming it had collision-avoidance. I guess all cars with any degree of autonomy will have this and it might even be mandatory at some stage.

What the outcome would be is difficult to know though as it is not the same as a human with reactions who can actually drive I would suspect.

I've experienced mine doing that already when someone gets a bit close.
 
Glad OP & others ok on this occasion.....thanks for sharing.

In light of today's news(Hands-free driving could be made legal on UK roads), how would a (semi) autonomous car have dealt with that situation....

This is a good question.........more so when we consider how fully autonomous vehicles might deal with potential collisions

Manufacturers & laws currently state that drivers still have a responsibility to intervene.

Hypothetically.....I wonder an autonomous vehicle can decide whether it is "safest" to attempt to brake to a halt in lane 1 ( to avoid rear-ending) or change lane & likely collide in lane 2.

As for "safest"......... Do we know if autonomous or semi-autonomous vehicles always prioritise safety of that specific vehicle & occupants ?

Could an autonomous vehicle (protecting itself & occupants), avoid a collision but in so doing trigger a sequence of events that lead to a multi-vehicle pile up behind ?

I suspect I am later going to try to find out more about the technologies concerned.
 
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Glad OP & others ok on this occasion.....thanks for sharing.



This is a good question.........more so when we consider how fully autonomous vehicles might deal with potential collisions

Manufacturers & laws currently state that drivers still have a responsibility to intervene.

Hypothetically.....I wonder an autonomous vehicle can decide whether it is "safest" to attempt to brake to a halt in lane 1 ( to avoid rear-ending) or change lane & likely collide in lane 2.

As for "safest"......... Do we know if autonomous or semi-autonomous vehicles always prioritise safety of that specific vehicle & occupants ?

Could an autonomous vehicle (protecting itself & occupants), avoid a collision but in so doing trigger a sequence of events that lead to a multi-vehicle pile up behind ?

I suspect I am later going to try to find out more about the technologies concerned.

Autonomous cars do not imitate human driver behavior, just like calculators and computers do not carry out tasks in the same way that humans do.

Humans are slow to respond, but good at analysing complex situations. Riva811 saw the car stopped in lane 1 for no good reason and immediately understood that this wasn't normal and that a dangerous situation is likely to develop. He was therefore prepared and when eventually the domino effect reached him and the car next to his swerved into his path, he was already primed for it and was able to avoid a collision, in spite of the 'slow' response time of his nervous system.

An autonomous vehicle won't be able to assess or analyse complex situations and identify what state of affairs on the road ahead isn't normal and should prompt anticipatory action. It also won't be able to read any of the predictive behavioral signs as drivers do - e.g. a human driver will know that a cyclist looking over his shoulder is considering turning into the driver's path, for example, and the (good) driver will be ready well before the bicycles actually changed course, etc.

But the computer running an autonomous vehicles won't need to do all these complex predictions, because once the obstacle is in its path it will respond in nanoseconds, compensating for any lack of human anticipatory capabilities.
 
Car would either brake as the lorry pulled out or steered away from it assuming it had collision-avoidance. I guess all cars with any degree of autonomy will have this and it might even be mandatory at some stage.

What the outcome would be is difficult to know though as it is not the same as a human with reactions who can actually drive I would suspect.

I've experienced mine doing that already when someone gets a bit close.

did you car react to movement in the lane you are in or to movement 2 lanes away?

Genuine question

As my car fails to distinguish between speed limit signs posted at the side of the road or on an overhead gantry, and a speed sign on the back of another vehicle, I think the tech has a way to go before I trust it....
 
Autonomous cars do not imitate human driver behavior, just like calculators and computers do not carry out tasks in the same way that humans do.

Humans are slow to respond, but good at analysing complex situations. Riva811 saw the car stopped in lane 1 for no good reason and immediately understood that this wasn't normal and that a dangerous situation is likely to develop. He was therefore prepared and when eventually the domino effect reached him and the car next to his swerved into his path, he was already primed for it and was able to avoid a collision, in spite of the 'slow' response time of his nervous system.

An autonomous vehicle won't be able to assess or analyse complex situations and identify what state of affairs on the road ahead isn't normal and should prompt anticipatory action. It also won't be able to read any of the predictive behavioral signs as drivers do - e.g. a human driver will know that a cyclist looking over his shoulder is considering turning into the driver's path, for example, and the (good) driver will be ready well before the bicycles actually changed course, etc.

But the computer running an autonomous vehicles won't need to do all these complex predictions, because once the obstacle is in its path it will respond in nanoseconds, compensating for any lack of human anticipatory capabilities.


All true - but even an autonomous vehicle can't defy physics and stop any quicker - isn't that a function of the coefficient of grip?
 
All true - but even an autonomous vehicle can't defy physics and stop any quicker - isn't that a function of the coefficient of grip?

Yes, of course... but the quick initial reaction time of the computer driving the car will compensate for the lack of peripheral awareness in terms of anticipating and predicting other drivers' behavior. So the actual braking process will start at the same time (or thereabouts).
 
Plausible….but I wont be trusting it any time soon...

An alert driver could spot the situation developing a good 5 seconds or more before it occurs - that time cannot be regained.
 
Autonomous cars do not imitate human driver behavior, just like calculators and computers do not carry out tasks in the same way that humans do.

Humans are slow to respond, but good at analysing complex situations. Riva811 saw the car stopped in lane 1 for no good reason and immediately understood that this wasn't normal and that a dangerous situation is likely to develop. He was therefore prepared and when eventually the domino effect reached him and the car next to his swerved into his path, he was already primed for it and was able to avoid a collision, in spite of the 'slow' response time of his nervous system.

An autonomous vehicle won't be able to assess or analyse complex situations and identify what state of affairs on the road ahead isn't normal and should prompt anticipatory action. It also won't be able to read any of the predictive behavioral signs as drivers do - e.g. a human driver will know that a cyclist looking over his shoulder is considering turning into the driver's path, for example, and the (good) driver will be ready well before the bicycles actually changed course, etc.

But the computer running an autonomous vehicles won't need to do all these complex predictions, because once the obstacle is in its path it will respond in nanoseconds, compensating for any lack of human anticipatory capabilities.
I would imagine that autonomous vehicles have sensors scanning not only straight ahead , but also laterally and behind , so will take into account traffic alongside or behind . Some autonomous vehicles may even communicate with others nearby , thereby telling them of a hazard before their own sensors pick it up . It will all be factored into very complex , and no doubt learning , algorithms .

Much could have been avoided , of course , had the truck driver braked earlier , or even taken his evasive action onto the hard shoulder rather than into another traffic lane . Alas , people who drive long distances , and I am one of them , can at times have lapses of concentration - it is part of being human = we all do it .
 
I would imagine that autonomous vehicles have sensors scanning not only straight ahead , but also laterally and behind , so will take into account traffic alongside or behind . Some autonomous vehicles may even communicate with others nearby , thereby telling them of a hazard before their own sensors pick it up . It will all be factored into very complex , and no doubt learning , algorithms .

Much could have been avoided , of course , had the truck driver braked earlier , or even taken his evasive action onto the hard shoulder rather than into another traffic lane . Alas , people who drive long distances , and I am one of them , can at times have lapses of concentration - it is part of being human = we all do it .
My CL500 has collision prevention like the newer ones but it only operates below 40mph
I suspect autonomous cars will have to take action no matter what. As a programmer I have to say the car will react based on how it is programmed.
 
did you car react to movement in the lane you are in or to movement 2 lanes away?

Genuine question

As my car fails to distinguish between speed limit signs posted at the side of the road or on an overhead gantry, and a speed sign on the back of another vehicle, I think the tech has a way to go before I trust it....

In the situation I can think of, the car in lane 3 was steering a bit close to me, for whatever reason, and my car steered in the opposite direction enough to avoid the collision and braked at the same time a bit.

It does bugger all if the car is further away than that (except warns you depending on what is where).
 
Weird situtation but I was in lane 4 and a car was stopped with emergency lights on in lane 1. a lorry almost hit the stopped car (texting?) but change lane last minute which triggered a cascade of lane changes; jaguar in lane 2 jumped to lane 3 and a tiny corsa with a guy and his young son from lane 3 in lane 4 right in front of me. Thankfully my reaction time was good and the car managed to stop from 70mph in short distance. Otherwise the guy infront of me would of launched into orbit with his young child inside...
I’m wondering: given that there was a stopped car in lane 1, was there a hard shoulder at this point? As other threads have discussed, smart motorways have some serious shortcomings and seem to be a cause of accidents or at least near misses.
 
OP must have been the only driver in the history of M25’s outside lane not to be driving right up the car in fronts .

Because everyone is driving so close together all it takes is one little thing and bump bump bump. Getting rid of the hard shoulder has made it carnage.
 

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