And they continue to deny any responsibility

[Monkeylegend]

No, all I really want is for some folk here to curb their anger.

Now I am getting confused, you clearly said it was an acceptance of being mislead you wanted :fail

I'm not sure you really know exactly what you do want

 

[camerafodder]

Brixton Road breaches annual air pollution limit in five days - BBC News

"Here he goes again". Yes, it's because I'm concerned about what NOx is doing to my children's health and my grandchildren's health. That's NOx from diesel cars. It's not the pollutants from lorries and busses that are the problem, it's diesel cars. I can understand why diesel car owners don't want to and/or can't afford to immediately change to cars that don't pump out the high levels of NOx. I can even understand why they become defensive about their choice. But I don't understand why they can't admit that they are part of the problem and consider a change of fuel with their next car purchase. Instead, I've had many in this very forum hurling abuse at me for airing my views, my fears. Of course they'll continue to ignore the ever-mounting evidence. Of course they'll continue to abuse me for posting this. Perhaps burying their heads in the sand is protecting them from NOx, but is it protecting their families? It's certainly not protecting my family.

What are your calculated NOx emissions for your trip abroad?

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Now I am getting confused, you clearly said it was an acceptance of being mislead you wanted :fail

I'm not sure you really know exactly what you do want

What I said monkeyboy was that I wanted some acceptance of being misled, which is what I got from some people. I did NOT say that's ALL I wanted, which was the question that was asked.

Too many people here need to visit Specsavers.

 

[davidjpowell]

Now I am getting confused, you clearly said it was an acceptance of being mislead you wanted :fail

I'm not sure you really know exactly what you do want

To be on a pedestal....

 

[Deleted member 65149]

What are your calculated NOx emissions for your trip abroad?

You'll not be surprised to hear that I haven't done those calculations. But I will be sharing the majority of the trip with a few hundred others, thereby significantly lessening my contribution. What the breakdown of NOx is I don't know, but one of the few researchers trying to make a straight, consistent comparison between cars and aircraft is Michael Sivak of the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute. In working papers released over the past three years, Sivak has attempted to overturn the conventional wisdom: His main recent finding is that the average energy intensity of driving is about twice that of flying. So I won't be beating myself up :bannana:

 

[camerafodder]

You'll not be surprised to hear that I haven't done those calculations. But I will be sharing the majority of the trip with a few hundred others, thereby significantly lessening my contribution. What the breakdown of NOx is I don't know, but one of the few researchers trying to make a straight, consistent comparison between cars and aircraft is Michael Sivak of the University of Michigan Transportation Research Institute. In working papers released over the past three years, Sivak has attempted to overturn the conventional wisdom: His main recent finding is that the average energy intensity of driving is about twice that of flying. So I won't be beating myself up :bannana:

Sharing the trip does not 'lessen' your contribution, this is warped logic.
Regardless of this, how essential is your journey?

 

[CabrioDave]

But are we discussing energy intensity or NOx emissions?

 

[Monkeylegend]

All I've ever wanted is for diesel car owners and drivers to admit that they were misled into believing that their vehicle choice was a sound environmentally friendly decision.

I will just leave this here.

My memory is getting worse as I get older as well

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Sharing the trip does not 'lessen' your contribution, this is warped logic.
Regardless of this, how essential is your journey?

Sorry for not being pedantically specific. I meant that sharing my trip lessened my contribution relative to what it would have been had I taken the trip alone.

My journey is as essential as the vast majority of journeys taken by everyone. Very few journeys are essential. Most of us can get by with hardly any pollution generating journeys, we just chose not to. Don't ask me to explain that, it's too bleeding obvious.

 

[camerafodder]

Sorry for not being pedantically specific. I meant that sharing my trip lessened my contribution relative to what it would have been had I taken the trip alone.

My journey is as essential as the vast majority of journeys taken by everyone. Very few journeys are essential. Most of us can get by with hardly any pollution generating journeys, we just chose not to. Don't ask me to explain that, it's too bleeding obvious.

Hypocrisy is so ugly.

 

[Giantvanman]

Yes, it's because I'm concerned about what NOx is doing to my children's health and my grandchildren's health. That's NOx from diesel cars.

It's not the pollutants from lorries and busses that are the problem, it's diesel cars.

On page 38 it says that cars account for almost two thirds of road transport greenhouse gas emissions.

there is a huge difference in impact on human beings between mass emissions and greenhouse gas based emissions.

You could argue that the argument is too narrow, I'd argue it fits with the current new topic, and it is actually a different argument when when you bring greenhouse gas emissions into the equation.

Exactly why we all end doing this

There ARE strong arguments but they have yet to be made.

And when did we begin trusting government statistics (or even governments for that matter) and accepting pressure group and biased media proclamations as being gospel?

Serious question time, for one or both of you....

I've always wondered about the impact weather patterns have. For example, the air above this country isn't solely ours because of wind patterns and the earth's rotational effect. We experience weather warnings all the time; for sand from the Sahara and pollution carried over from Poland/Germany/Europe.......is all 'our' pollution ours?

I guess without all the buses and taxis, the figures for Oxford Street would be at their Sunday closure levels.... it is this site that government, TFL and pressure groups use for their dire warnings, is it not?
London Air Quality Network :: Welcome to the London Air Quality Network » Statistics Maps

In other words, if only we could get to the truth of it all instead of just the taxation and agenda driven parts that suit......reminds me of the BREXIT debacle all over again in many ways.

I happen to live in an area that the WHO have declared to be in the top ten worst places in the UK for both greenhouse gases and "mass emissions" and I would dearly love to read some decent, fact based and unpolluted (sic) arguments AND about the whole picture, not just a tiny corner of it. My area is being foisted with a new Thames crossing for the M25, huge warehouses from Amazon and Aldi, Dubai World at Thames Gateway, major new housing projects etc etc and one remains on his anti-diesel car crusade and the other is just being sanctimoniously unhelpful.

 

[Darrell]

No I'm not. I'm from London and I lived there for 40 years. I live in Peterborough at the moment, but that's not where I'm from. I moved to Peterborough to get away from the high number of diesels in London, the diesels that are reported to be chucking out dangerously high levels of NOx.

So you CHOSE to live in Peterborough!! Yes gods!!

 

[dejongj]

And when did we begin trusting government statistics (or even governments for that matter) and accepting pressure group and biased media proclamations as being gospel?

And why wouldn't we? I've been working for the British Government for many years, that is like saying I just make up what I've been doing.

Hmm, don't think so. Sorry but I can't take anything serious as part of the debate when you are so dismissive of a very valid and dedicated group of people.

 

[Monkeylegend]

And why wouldn't we? I've been working for the British Government for many years, that is like saying I just make up what I've been doing.

Hmm, don't think so. Sorry but I can't take anything serious as part of the debate when you are so dismissive of a very valid and dedicated group of people.

Tell that to Saddam Hussein.

 

[190]

An interesting view here that Diesels are not necessarily doomed but they will have to inject a lot more urea to keep emissions under control.

Opinion: Will London's pollution problem spell the end of diesel cars? | Autocar

 

[Dickie Fix]

@knighterrant - I have a definite sense of schadenfreude, what with you living in Peterborough, the home of that well-known maker of diesels, Perkins Engines Ltd

Their Prima engine powered my Montego for 186,000 event-free miles back in the 90's.

 

[davidjpowell]

An interesting view here that Diesels are not necessarily doomed but they will have to inject a lot more urea to keep emissions under control.

Opinion: Will London's pollution problem spell the end of diesel cars? | Autocar

Are you taking the piss?

 

[Yugguy]

. Sorry for hurting you.

You didn't. But you are giving me a good laugh. Actually are you my mate Marcus? He drives an m135i 3 miles to work and takes the piss out of my diesel too.

 

[219]

Hypocrite OP.

How clean is your large petrol engined car? You are being smug just because your car is relatively clean when compared to a diesel...but hugely polluting compared to a Prius.

And yet, as you say...you continue to deny this.

That Prius will be an environmental time bomb , thanks to the toxicity of its batteries , which eventually have to be disposed of .

Maybe not into the atmosphere ( but the electricity to run it still had to be generated ) but the pollution has to go somewhere .

 

[219]

The OP has made many anti-diesel remarks for at least as long as I've been a member.

The OP has always made a big thing about his very special, ultra-limited, very rare, 3500cc petrol engined car, ownership of which somehow makes him better than everyone else.

The OP would use ANY argument just to make the previous two points over and over again and will continue to do so until everyone acknowledges his superior choices.

There was a better way to approach this subject and certainly a better way to explain the issues without trying to lord it over others.

Your argument is too narrow and ignores other contributory factors and all the time you focus on what suits your agenda and ignore everything else, you'll always meet resistance.
e.g. "Cars accounted for 79% of all vehicle miles travelled in 2014"
BUT a lorry only does about 3mpg on average and a 'normal' bus less than 10mpg (for a modern one) and about 12mpg for an "eco" model and I can't be bothered looking into the small commercial vehicle (vans, pick ups etc) numbers.

Not disagreeing with any of the above , but with HGVs there really is no alternative to Diesel ; in the dark distant past there were petrol trucks , but I doubt any are produced nowadays ? We have a few petrol fire appliances in our preserved fleet , a few of which are kept roadworthy .

I supppose there are still petrol vans ? Some years ago I used to drive a large petrol engined VW LT van , lovely thing it was with its burbling six cylinder engine , but glad I didn't have to pay for the fuel .

I've driven lots of Diesel vans , from the old square Mercedes 208D , bigger 508D , Sprinters long , short and tall , Vitos , Renault Traffics and Masters , Vauxhall Movanos and smaller car based Astra and Corsa vans - the bigger ones obviously heavy on fuel , but even Vitos can be surprisingly frugal .

I can also go back to the days when my dad ran a petrol Series 1 Landy as a fleet service vehicle - I expect it was thirsty - and have fond memories of long trips with him in it to attend breakdowns , and driving it around his haulage yard before I could legally drive on the roads .