And they continue to deny any responsibility

[Deleted member 65149]

The OP has made many anti-diesel remarks for at least as long as I've been a member. The OP has always made a big thing about his very special, ultra-limited, very rare, 3500cc petrol engined car, ownership of which somehow makes him better than everyone else. The OP would use ANY argument just to make the previous two points over and over again and will continue to do so until everyone acknowledges his superior choices. There was a better way to approach this subject and certainly a better way to explain the issues without trying to lord it over others. Your argument is too narrow and ignores other contributory factors and all the time you focus on what suits your agenda and ignore everything else, you'll always meet resistance. e.g. "Cars accounted for 79% of all vehicle miles travelled in 2014" BUT a lorry only does about 3mpg on average and a 'normal' bus less than 10mpg (for a modern one) and about 12mpg for an "eco" model and I can't be bothered looking into the small commercial vehicle (vans, pick ups etc) numbers.

Instead of vague unsupported claims, you could do with reading this report by the DoT on road use statistics (https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...statistics.pdf)

On page 38 it says that cars account for almost two thirds of road transport greenhouse gas emissions. What am I ignoring here?

 

[Oli]

True but to a large extent so are the smaller high output petrol engines.
But things are pretty reliable. For instance when catalytic convertors were introduced or electronic ignition, these were all doomed to failure but over time they are pretty reliable.

I'm not sure if it's still true in modern engines but another factor as diesels used to have tougher blocks too.
I don't think petrol engines are unreliable the main failings on modern ones are things like coil packs etc, which price wise is usually a cheaper fix than stuff like injectors for diesels.
For out and out reliability I'd think an older diesel or a large,unstressed petrol-modern or older would be good.

For me I'd say on the characteristics of the engine alone I prefer petrol, but when you take into account practical things like fuel economy diesels make a lot of sense to a lot of people and they're not bad either.
Arguing over a fuel choice seems tribal and silly it's like people who argue that Android is great and Apple is terrible, or a Les Paul is the only guitar you'll ever need and Stratocasters are rubbish- they all do broadly the same thing and have their merits and disadvantages, the main thing is working out and getting what is right for you wether it's a car, phone anything really.

 

[dejongj]

The OP has made many anti-diesel remarks for at least as long as I've been a member.

The OP has always made a big thing about his very special, ultra-limited, very rare, 3500cc petrol engined car, ownership of which somehow makes him better than everyone else.

The OP would use ANY argument just to make the previous two points over and over again and will continue to do so until everyone acknowledges his superior choices.

Unfortunately it is a hot topic as in London we have been less than a week in the new year and already breached the targets for NO2/NOx emissions.

Surely that is a fair enough situation to bring it up?

There was a better way to approach this subject and certainly a better way to explain the issues without trying to lord it over others.

Blimey, this truly is the snowflake generation isn't it? Sure I agree, a little dramatic opening, but hey its just a few words on a Internet forum post.

Your argument is too narrow and ignores other contributory factors and all the time you focus on what suits your agenda and ignore everything else, you'll always meet resistance.
e.g. "Cars accounted for 79% of all vehicle miles travelled in 2014"
BUT a lorry only does about 3mpg on average and a 'normal' bus less than 10mpg (for a modern one) and about 12mpg for an "eco" model and I can't be bothered looking into the small commercial vehicle (vans, pick ups etc) numbers.

Actually no, it matches the discussion and the news topic that is happening right now. As I have explained several times now, there is a huge difference in impact on human beings between mass emissions and greenhouse gas based emissions.

I'm not arguing that petrol engines are clean, however they do not emit the mass emissions to the degree that it is dangerous for human beings to such a degree that monitoring stations need to be installed in a city.

You could argue that the argument is too narrow, I'd argue it fits with the current new topic, and it is actually a different argument when when you bring greenhouse gas emissions into the equation.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

You'll have to try a lot harder than that to wind me up!

I have to admit that I'm getting old, so my memory isn't all that it should be. But I can't recall any time that I have denied that the engine on my car produces pollutants. Of course it does. I don't deny it. It's just that I make a pjoint of limiting the use of my polluting car in order to reduce its harmful effects as much as possible. That very limited use makes me believe that I'm responsible for less pollutants than I would be by changing to a Prius that has to go through a polluting manufacturing process, especially for the batteries, and then continues to contribute to pollution generated by the electricity production. When it's time for me to change my car, then I'll look into what the best option is - just as many diesel owners have said they will do. I believe that to be the sensible approach, but each to their own.

I am sure that there are diesel drivers who are just as considered in the choices they make on the use of their existing vehicle, and when replacing their car.

Some diesel engined car owners will also limit the use of their polluting car in order to reduce it's harmful effects as much as possible. They also believe that continuing to run with their diesel engined car will mean that they're responsible for less pollutants than changing to a Prius now.

When it's time for diesel owners to change their car, then they'll also look into what the best option is. Just like they did last time they changed cars. They just decided differently to you, and based upon the information most widely available at that time, diesel was seen as being a good choice environmentally.

 

[Benzowner]

Personally I don't give a figs rear end what car I drive, petrol or diesel or battery operated, we are all gonna die sooner or later and with our current average life expectancy increasing, I think we are being told "untruths" regarding NOX so the governments can tax us even more.

Many gave up smoking to live longer and end up with dementia so can't remember how old they are anyway. If the diesel car goes the same way, I am sure as eggs are eggs there will be something wrong with the alternative, probably how to dispose of the dead batteries from all the electric cars.

Carbon monoxide from a petrol car will kill you a lot quicker than from a diesel.

 

[renault12ts]

You'll have to try a lot harder than that to wind me up!

I have to admit that I'm getting old, so my memory isn't all that it should be. But I can't recall any time that I have denied that the engine on my car produces pollutants. Of course it does. I don't deny it. It's just that I make a point of limiting the use of my polluting car in order to reduce its harmful effects as much as possible. That very limited use makes me believe that I'm responsible for less pollutants than I would be by changing to a Prius that has to go through a polluting manufacturing process, especially for the batteries, and then continues to contribute to pollution generated by the electricity production. When it's time for me to change my car, then I'll look into what the best option is - just as many diesel owners have said they will do. I believe that to be the sensible approach, but each to their own.

Succinctly put...you are better than everyone else.

You want every diesel driver to change car, ignoring the pollution effect of this change...but will not do it yourself. Your argument with the rest of us is facile because you are very selective in what and who pollutes. You fly on holiday...and pollute. Give it a rest, you had become a bore on this subject long before you kicked oiff with this thread again.

When you buy an efficient, second hand, small capacity, petrol car I'll listen.

 

[geraldrobins]

Personally I don't give a figs rear end what car I drive, petrol or diesel or battery operated, we are all gonna die sooner or later and with our current average life expectancy increasing, I think we are being told "untruths" regarding NOX so the governments can tax us even more.

Many gave up smoking to live longer and end up with dementia so can't remember how old they are anyway. If the diesel car goes the same way, I am sure as eggs are eggs there will be something wrong with the alternative, probably how to dispose of the dead batteries from all the electric cars.

Carbon monoxide from a petrol car will kill you a lot quicker than from a diesel.

Some truth in what you say but currently diesel owners are not being taxed more but probably less.

 

[shane63]

I have been a user of diesel cars for the past 15 years. They have all been company cars and I have had to pay the BIK tax due on them, but I have been forced down this route by progressive government (Labour & Conservative ) Policies. My car is vital to do my job, without it my job would not be possible if I had to rely on Public transport. Governments and so called transport experts in the past have continuously told us how bad Co2 emissions are for the environment. So accordingly I have always selected my cars to 1. reduce harmful Co2 emissions and 2. to reduce my tax liability to the government. Now the latest research is telling us that the Nox from our diesel cars is even more harmful to our environment.
We should not be criticising people for purchasing diesel cars. The criticism and deserved vitriol should be directed at successive Governments for poor policy, not backed up by reliable research or figures.But more importantly for governments unable or unwilling to provide us all with a efficient, reliable public transport network.

For all too long governments have used motorists as a cash cow and have cut costs grants and support to public transport networks, while all the time encouraging a car based economy. So we should not be looking to condemn each other, we should be holding the Politicians to account.

I have just purchased a new MB E E Class estate, based upon BIK, Co2 emissions and to suit my lifestyle ( Myself and my partner both into cycling road racing, so we needed a large estate to fit both bikes into car). My next car will possibly be a hybrid, but again when on the internal combustion engine the combined emissions are worse that a non hybrid car. Electric cars are not yet an option due to the limited range. So where do we go ?. I have to go to Manchester from Reading 3 times a month, the train journey takes either 3 hours 45 mins or 4 hours 15 mins depending on the route I take, then a taxi from the station to my office and can cost from either £80.00 up to £325.00 depending how far or how little I can book in advance, then I have a £10.00 taxi fare on top. That is not effective. We are victims of a car based society, where public transport has not been a viable option for the past 20 years !

I know this will never happen, but what a nice thought it would be for an absolute revelation. To have accountability while you are holding public office.

Rant Over and Done With !

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Succinctly put...you are better than everyone else. You want every diesel driver to change car, ignoring the pollution effect of this change...but will not do it yourself. Your argument with the rest of us is facile because you are very selective in what and who pollutes. You fly on holiday...and pollute. Give it a rest, you had become a bore on this subject long before you kicked oiff with this thread again. When you buy an efficient, second hand, small capacity, petrol car I'll listen.

My deepest apologies for forcing you to open and read this thread. I had no idea that I held such power. As nice as it is for you to say that I'm better than anyone else, I don't for one minute think that's true. I refuse to take the blame for your apparent inferiority complex, but do hope you manage to overcome it in good time whilst you're growing up.

Once again someone tries to put words in my mouth. Please tell where I have ever said that I "want every diesel driver to change car". Your blind, unjustified and totally false accusations became a bore a long time ago. Give it a rest. When you manage to talk some sense I'll listen.

All I've ever wanted is for diesel car owners and drivers to admit that they were misled into believing that their vehicle choice was a sound environmentally friendly decision. Many owners on this forum have already posted this. Just as I have admitted that my own choice wasn't the best for everybody else's health. Of course I'm not expecting every diesel owning member to post that they'll consider the implications of their vehicle choices, the few who have is good. Obviously running costs also influence decisions. But I had hoped not to receive so much thoughtless and aggressive confrontation; presumably it's only to be expected on a social network.

 

[renault12ts]

All I've ever wanted is for diesel car owners and drivers to admit that they were misled into believing that their vehicle choice was a sound environmentally friendly decision.

Seriously...you think this is a reasonable position? Admit driving a large engined petrol car is environmentally sound.

 

[RonFleet]

Unfortunately it is a hot topic as in London we have been less than a week in the new year and already breached the targets for NO2/NOx emissions.

Surely that is a fair enough situation to bring it up?



Blimey, this truly is the snowflake generation isn't it? Sure I agree, a little dramatic opening, but hey its just a few words on a Internet forum post.



Actually no, it matches the discussion and the news topic that is happening right now. As I have explained several times now, there is a huge difference in impact on human beings between mass emissions and greenhouse gas based emissions.

I'm not arguing that petrol engines are clean, however they do not emit the mass emissions to the degree that it is dangerous for human beings to such a degree that monitoring stations need to be installed in a city.

You could argue that the argument is too narrow, I'd argue it fits with the current new topic, and it is actually a different argument when when you bring greenhouse gas emissions into the equation.

"Unfortunately it is a hot topic as in London we have been less than a week in the new year and already breached the targets for NO2/NOx emissions."

I didn't realise that all of London had exceeded the pollution limits - I thought it was one road... Perhaps that's what you meant to say.

 

[Yugguy]

It's just that I make a point of limiting the use of my polluting car.

Shame you're not limiting the use of talking complete ********.

You are a complete troll.

Your original post reads like a daily mail headline. You couched it in such language as you knew would wind people up.

You are the very definition of an internet troll.

 

[Darrell]

Shame you're not limiting the use of talking complete ********. You are a complete troll. Your original post reads like a daily mail headline. You couched it in such language as you knew would wind people up. You are the very definition of an internet troll.

And he is from Peterborough.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

And he is from Peterborough.

No I'm not. I'm from London and I lived there for 40 years. I live in Peterborough at the moment, but that's not where I'm from. I moved to Peterborough to get away from the high number of diesels in London, the diesels that are reported to be chucking out dangerously high levels of NOx.

 

[TheFoX]

No I'm not. I'm from London and I lived there for 40 years. I live in Peterborough at the moment, but that's not where I'm from. I moved to Peterborough to get away from the high number of diesels in London, the diesels that are reported to be chucking out dangerously high levels of NOx.

I'm from the South Coast and I moved the Fens, roughly 18 miles from where you live, to get away from too many people.

Ironically, since I live in the middle of nowhere, there's no one to poison with my Nox emissions. Mind you, if I pop into Peterborough, I'm probably poisoning loads of people, some indigenous and some immigrant, but hey ho.

If the government were to give me a grant or an allowance to change my vehicle to a more people-friendly version, I would, but money doesn't grow on trees and my pocket is not limitless. I have what I have and until such a time as the vehicle becomes uneconomical to run, am stuck with it.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Shame you're not limiting the use of talking complete ********. You are a complete troll. Your original post reads like a daily mail headline. You couched it in such language as you knew would wind people up. You are the very definition of an internet troll.

Pot and kettle.

There's clearly no point in me denying that my original post was intended to wind people up, because a few people here have already demonstrated a complete inability to read. But I will admit to not making allowances for the overly sensitive members of this forum who hate to hear the truth and take it as personal criticism. THAT WAS NOT MY INTENTION. Sorry for hurting you.

 

[Monkeylegend]

All I've ever wanted is for diesel car owners and drivers to admit that they were misled into believing that their vehicle choice was a sound environmentally friendly decision. Many owners on this forum have already posted this.

Is that all you really want?

Why?

So everybody admits they were mislead and then what

 

[Deleted member 65149]

I'm from the South Coast and I moved the Fens, roughly 18 miles from where you live, to get away from too many people. Ironically, since I live in the middle of nowhere, there's no one to poison with my Nox emissions. Mind you, if I pop into Peterborough, I'm probably poisoning loads of people, some indigenous and some immigrant, but hey ho. If the government were to give me a grant or an allowance to change my vehicle to a more people-friendly version, I would, but money doesn't grow on trees and my pocket is not limitless. I have what I have and until such a time as the vehicle becomes uneconomical to run, am stuck with it.

I don't actually live in Peterborough, it's just the nearest better known place to me so I refer to it rather than the little village where I am (but still near enough to MB Peterborough to walk there in under an hour).

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Is that all you really want? Why? So everybody admits they were mislead and then what

No, all I really want is for some folk here to curb their anger.

 

[John Jones Jr]

There's clearly no point in me denying that my original post was intended to wind people up...

Hope you actually don't think this is news. And on that note I'm delighted to say I'm out.