Auto Box, Sump bolts P/N ?

[c240yaz]

Soon, I am going to change my ATF and filter on my 722.6 auto box, but just in case, I would like to have a few spare sump bolts / screws at hand, just in case of emergency, as I live a considerable distance from the nearest MB dealership and cannot take the risk of car being off the road waiting for a dropped or damaged sump screw.

Looking at the drawing parts list, can anyone confirm that the P/N for the sump srews is P/N 1409904601 ?

Sump gasket - Is it adviseable to attach new gasket as it is, or use additional gasket sealent on the new gasket ?

Also, having not done this on an MB before, do the sump bolts screw directly into the G/box casing, or is there a removeable threaded clamp. It appears this way on the drawing, but not sure if I am reading it correctly ?

Any other tips on this surgery would be deeply appreciated.

 

[Dieselman]

The bolts are Item no 30, the gasket should be replaced, no sealant.

The bolts screw into the gearbox casing through the clamps.

 

[c240yaz]

Thanks Dieselman,

What is the difference between the 2 clamps, items 20 and 25 and how many of each is required ?

No access to a ramp to check for myself until next week.

 

[Dieselman]

You wont need new clamps. The difference is that 25 is for the corner.

 

[eurico]

Don't forget to torque them to 8 Nm and the drain bolt to 20 Nm. That in conjuntion to cleanliness of mating surfaces and new gasket is the "secret" to no leaks.

 

[c240yaz]

Eurico, Thanks for the torque info. As I said earlier, I plan in buying a couple of sump bolts just in case. Diesel man suggests no need to worry about the clamps. Last thing I want is any surprises to arise when I do the job, in a few weeks time I hope.

I realise that the oil trapped inside the torque convertor, I cannot drain, so have accepted the fact that this will have to "mix" with the new oil that I replace. I have no intention of repeating the drain refill process to obtain perfectly renewed oil. Not for another 50K anyway.

5 litres MB spec oil should be enough for this ? Opinions on any potential problems which may arise are welcome. Even negative !!

 

[Dieselman]

The worst teat could happen is that you shear a bolt undoing it, the rest is childs play.

 

[c240yaz]

Sheer a bolt undoing it. Highly unlikely, surely . Do they seize up in situa ?

 

[Dieselman]

Not very often.

 

[Ian B Walker]

Sheer a bolt undoing it. Highly unlikely, surely . Do they seize up in situa ?

Ahem, Steel bolts, aluminium box, aluminium bracket + electrolysis and you have a pending disaster. Tip, lots of penetrating oil, leave for about half an hour. Good quality torx insert, tap into socket and turn. If it does sheer then I am afraid its a 2.5mm drill and a set of stud extractors and even that is not guaranteed. How do I know? I have done 3 box's that have had sheered bolts.

 

[c240yaz]

Ian, Thanks for this. I have done similar on MB and Volvo truck diesels, but the biggest thing that can go wrong there is cracking the aluminium cast sump casings when handling, not to mention fitting helicoil threads into the block after stripping !, but with my hands being more used to the heavier stuff, I am apprehensive with the finer details on cars !! At least the sump pan is pressed steel on the cars.

Thats what I like about this forum, great information from you tech guys.

NB, not to mention, replacing the 12 plugs (soon) ...heard so many nightmare stories on what possibly can go wrong with this operation !!

Expect a flow of worries to you guys before I tackle this.:bannana:

 

[eurico]

Forgot to mention that it's very important to get the oil level right. Do you have a dipstick? You can make one yourself. I will try and post some pics of mine that should be ready this weekend.
You will also need the little thingy that holds the dipstick tube plug that has to be broken off to remove said plug. Dont' go loitering around without this plug safely in place.
BTW I am planning to do an oil change on mine but will use the newer ATF3353 for the 7G that I will get from a Fuchs (OEM supplier) reseller for a very decent price. What are you using?
You can get the converter oil out if you separate the cooling lines and run the engine for just the time needed to empty the system. This way you will have all the old oil out.
A known issue is the pilot bushing sealing that fails and lets oil into the control unit electronics. Corrected replacement is cheap and easily accessible when sump is out. If yours was allready been replaced it should have a green dot to identify the corrected part.

 

[c240yaz]

I have decided not to disturb the oil lines and have accepted that 2 litres in the flywheel can "mix" with the new oil. 5 new litres, which I calculate should be enough, MB oil, new filter and cleaning the magnet in the sump pan, new gasket will do me. There is no sign of any leaks or sepeage.

Oil, gasket, washer, bolts I will order from Inchcape on line. Nearest MB dealer, Glasgow, is 75 miles away. I am really in the sticks out here.

I do not have a dipstick and will go on the principle of what measure comes out, will go back in. To the ml. Yes, would like to see your dipstick pic.

Several members advised me on this earlier. Television, who supplied me with a wealth of information, and others, plus I have also seen the "How to" by Parrot.

I previously purchased the filler plug from Inchape mail order, (after accidently breaking off the tab (cuiriosty killed the cat). See attached pic.

I know nothing about the PILOT BUSHING SEALENT. Please tell me what is required. P/N ? I think that is highly unlikely that it has ever been replaced.

I bought the car from MB Glasgow last year. It was a 2001 model, one owner, 46K miles, not a mark on it, but I have my suspicions about the service history, after doing an oil an filter change a few weeks ago. Heavily carboned, and filter o rings shot. See my other posts on this subject.

By the way, your terminoligy, are you MB technically trained ?

 

[Bazzle]

Dip stick. Pushes in until it just contacts sump floor. Then you read up. MB say to fill to top line HOT to prevent foaming.
Just get a bit of white plastic coated spiral curtain wire and mark up as per my pic. Top temp is 80c, dimensions in mm. (64)

Bazzle

 

[eurico]

Sorry but I cannot find the charger for my camera, but here goes: I made the dipstick with a 1.5 m stainless steel wire rope with 3.5 mm diameter. For it not to fray in the ends and help to go through the tube, I soldered with regular tin a little bead. For added cleanliness and ease of use I sheated the whole cable with heat shrinking pastic tube. I made the cold and hot markings with 10 mm sections of heat shrink of different colour. Works fine.
I will tell you the pilot bushing p/n tomorrow as I will have one at hand. It's very cheap - somehing like 6 euros plus VAT.
No I don't have MB training. I have just read a lot about these transmissions...
Some 15 years back I worked as "jack-of-all-trades" in a Citroen dealer.
Don't trust any service being done before and remember: if you want something done properly, do it yourself!
Hope this helps and I will/must find the bloody charger...

 

[c240yaz]

Sorry but I cannot find the charger for my camera, but here goes: I made the dipstick with a 1.5 m stainless steel wire rope with 3.5 mm diameter. For it not to fray in the ends and help to go through the tube, I soldered with regular tin a little bead. For added cleanliness and ease of use I sheated the whole cable with heat shrinking pastic tube. I made the cold and hot markings with 10 mm sections of heat shrink of different colour. Works fine.
I will tell you the pilot bushing p/n tomorrow as I will have one at hand. It's very cheap - somehing like 6 euros plus VAT.
No I don't have MB training. I have just read a lot about these transmissions...
Some 15 years back I worked as "jack-of-all-trades" in a Citroen dealer.
Don't trust any service being done before and remember: if you want something done properly, do it yourself!
Hope this helps and I will/must find the bloody charger...

Thanks Eurico, I am interested in more information on the Pilot Bushing. I cannot recall reading any other threads on this item. Cant wait to see your pics. Thanks.

 

[c240yaz]

Dip stick. Pushes in until it just contacts sump floor. Then you read up. MB say to fill to top line HOT to prevent foaming.
Just get a bit of white plastic coated spiral curtain wire and mark up as per my pic. Top temp is 80c, dimensions in mm. (64)

Bazzle

Bazzle, Nice dipstick. How did you attach the palstic to the metal ? Did you just melt it together with heat ?

I have seen these for sale on ebay, but unfortunatly, they are in the USA approx $25 plus almost $30 to ship. Too expensive for me.:bannana:

I reckon if someone in the UK was to start making these dipsticks, they would make a good income on ebay !

Perhaps MB would start buying them !!

 

[Dieselman]

Bazzle, Nice dipstick. How did you attach the palstic to the metal ? Did you just melt it together with heat ?

That's the genuine Mercedes dipstick. You can buy it from a dealer for about £20.

 

[Parrot of Doom]

If you can't get to the TQ to drain it, you can drain a lot more fluid by removing the foremost plastic undertray from the vehicle (the one that protects the foglamps), and disconnecting the oil cooler pipes at the flexible hose-straight pipe connection (needs 2 spanners, around 13-15mm IIRC). You'll get easily a half litre or more out of there by doing that.

 

[c240yaz]

If you can't get to the TQ to drain it, you can drain a lot more fluid by removing the foremost plastic undertray from the vehicle (the one that protects the foglamps), and disconnecting the oil cooler pipes at the flexible hose-straight pipe connection (needs 2 spanners, around 13-15mm IIRC). You'll get easily a half litre or more out of there by doing that.

Parrot, To my knowlegde, no drain plug on TQ conv. Interesting, not been or seen in that area of the car yet below the fog lamp cover. Can you be more specific in location, or do you have a pic or does anyone have a drawing sheet for this area, pipes location etc ?