Bad experience today

[kurtdaley]

On the way to nursery with my son this morning when the front end on my W124 totally collapsed.
Fortunately I was a few corners from my house and not on the motorway or a fast A road.
It was the drivers side and it totally collapsed, I had a look and the ball joint had snapped clean off.
The AA came out after waiting for 3 and a half hours and said "can't move that mate you need a recovery firm". So waited another hour and a recovery firm came out and 5 minutes later it was on the back of the truck and on the way to my mechanics.
Just thanking my lucky stars that I wasn't on the motorway because it could have been a whole lot worse for me and my 3 year old son.
Hopefully be sorted tomorrow but proper shook me up thinking what could have happened.

 

[mykulmerc]

Glad you are both ok. Hope the car is better soon, too.

 

[BlackC55]

The ball joints should not be left so worn they snap. That is a clear case of lack of maintenence. How did it pass an MOT?

Ball joints should be checked at every service!

I am glad it was at slow speed though and no injury. Check the other side too.

 

[kurtdaley]

The ball joints should not be left so worn they snap. That is a clear case of lack of maintenence. How did it pass an MOT?

Ball joints should be checked at every service!

I am glad it was at slow speed though and no injury. Check the other side too.

Exactly my thoughts, I bought it 2 months ago off a member on here so very surprised myself.
Going to get my mechanic to change both sides though.

 

[219]

Glad you were not hurt .

This is something I've heard of happening quite a few times ( always seems to be W124's and W201's but I'm sure others suffer too ) . Strangely , the reported cases have all been at low-ish speeds or hardly moving at all .

One ball joint was picked up on my W126 at the last MOT , I'll perhaps get the other one done for the sake of £12 or whatever .

 

[Sonny Burnett]

Glad you were not hurt .

This is something I've heard of happening quite a few times ( always seems to be W124's and W201's but I'm sure others suffer too ) . Strangely , the reported cases have all been at low-ish speeds or hardly moving at all .

One ball joint was picked up on my W126 at the last MOT , I'll perhaps get the other one done for the sake of £12 or whatever .

better to be safe than sorry.. rode all the way from Sheffield with my front springs snapped and i never knew lol

 

[WDB124066]

Could you please let us know if it was a genuine ball joint with the MB star logo stamped on it. Also, are you running the correct offset on your wheels, and has your car been lowered at all, or modified in any way with respect to steering, wheels or suspension.

This info would be of great assistance to me at least.

W.

 

[kurtdaley]

Could you please let us know if it was a genuine ball joint with the MB star logo stamped on it. Also, are you running the correct offset on your wheels, and has your car been lowered at all, or modified in any way with respect to steering, wheels or suspension.

This info would be of great assistance to me at least.

W.

Will let you know, the car is totally standard as far as I know.
Kurt

 

[Pan]

Nasty one, glad you're both OK and as you say, lucky it was at low-speed.

Had a similar thing happen back in the late 70s on a Triumph Spitfire, the (plastic) lower trunnion bush had worn through, and the offside front wheel went from upright to folded under at about 30deg from horizontal, on a low-speed turn in.

Good job it had vinyl seats.

 

[219]

better to be safe than sorry.. rode all the way from Sheffield with my front springs snapped and i never knew lol

I've had broken springs picked up at MOT time without being aware beforehand - car still looked level and no clunks or clonks .

These days it is something I check for before MOT or whenever I happen to be under the car .

 

[neilrr]

No funny noises warning you something was up? Don't the usually start groaning & moaning on their way out?

 

[iscaboy]

Ball joints generally seem to die at low speed cornering, not high speed straight line.

Ball joints generally seem to have a really hard time on cars with lowered / stiffened suspension, low profile tyres, wide tyres.

As WDB124066 says, due to the consequences of them failing catastrophically, the labour to replace, and the cost of parts, it is a seriously false economy to fit any generic parts.

 

[NormanC]

Ball joints generally seem to die at low speed cornering, not high speed straight line.

Ball joints generally seem to have a really hard time on cars with lowered / stiffened suspension, low profile tyres, wide tyres.

As WDB124066 says, due to the consequences of them failing catastrophically, the labour to replace, and the cost of parts, it is a seriously false economy to fit any generic parts.

I agree, it always seems to happen at low speed.

Despite regular service and inspection, I've had this happen 3 times; once on a Triumph Spitfire and twice on a Lotus Eclat. In every case it was walking speed or less.

Considering the performance available from the Eclat, I never felt safe in it after the second failure so just got rid of the car.

 

[iscaboy]

I agree, it always seems to happen at low speed.

it's getting back to the biker thing.

At any speed much above walking, it is the rotation of the wheels that keeps the bike up, literally a pair of gyroscope flywheels.

To make a motorcycle turn right (again, at anything above walking speed) you push the right handlebar, in effect trying to turn left, which means you're trying to turn a gyroscope flywheel, so it reacts by leaning over sideways, and it is this leaning (due to "trail") that changes the steering geometry and turns the vehicle.

The gyroscopic component of a car wheel (much heavier than a bike wheel) is correspondingly much greater, and so what the wheel wants to do mainly is stay upright and go in a straight line.

As an aside, this is also the same thing going on in flywheels.

back in the day large stationary engines, gas / oil / petrol / steam, had external flywheels.

The "rule of thumb" for cast iron flywheels was a maximum safe rim speed (same as road speed for a wheel) of 60 mph, safe as in exceed it and the bursting force would overcome the material strength and the flywheel would literally explode.

In the case of a stationary engine in a mill building when the flywheel burst it would literally destroy the entire building.

 

[NormanC]

To make a motorcycle turn right (again, at anything above walking speed) you push the right handlebar, in effect trying to turn left, which means you're trying to turn a gyroscope flywheel, so it reacts by leaning over sideways, and it is this leaning (due to "trail") that changes the steering geometry and turns the vehicle.

I don't follow this.

Assume that I am slowing down whilst turning on a constant right-hand radius. According to the above there will be a speed (somewhere about walking speed) when I have to completely reverse my steering actions. I have to go from pushing the right handlebar to pulling it.

Surely not?

 

[iscaboy]

Left hand on left end of handlebar (clutch), right hand on right end of handlebar (front brake / throttle)

To turn right you push the right end of the handlebar away from yourself, if you were on a child's trike this would turn you left.

Motorcycles steer by precessing the gyro that is the wheels. This leans the whole plot over, and THAT alters the steering geometry and makes the turn.

as you say, about walking speed or below, eg below the point where gyro force keeps the plot upright, then steering is "normal", turn bars right to turn bike right.

 

[iscaboy]

This BTW is why novice bikers wobble all over the place.

Eventually their BODY learns to ride, the brain takes many years to follow.

 

[NormanC]

Thanks, iscaboy.

So you do have to change your steering input at the last minute when slowing down.

Is this why motorcyclists find it impossible to slow down or stop?

 

[Pan]

Not impossible to slow down or stop, it's more a case of "why would we want to?"
On the other hand, despite the incredibly powerful brakes on modern bikes - just a two finger pull will stand it on it's nose - the limiting factor for us is nearly always a tyre contact patch about the size of a spoon.

Neither of my bikes benefits from two-finger brakes, particularly 'The Brick' (BMW) which despite having ABS is a bit of a heavy behemoth to stop, so I ride accordingly.

Peter

 

[iscaboy]

Is this why motorcyclists find it impossible to slow down or stop?

We're only a third as wide as a car...

During my more insane days I used to do long distance dispatch, this was ironically enough right after motorway recovery which taught me more than I even needed to know about meat grinding, 3 lanes of stationary traffic, no problemo, filter at 80 .. I have been *very* lucky over the years.

A *good* car will out-corner a bike, but at everything else it is no contest, manoeuvres that would be suicidal in a car (think bhp/lb) are just slightly crazy/hairy in a bike.

Similarly manoeuvres that would be suicidal in a wagon are just slightly hairy in a car.