Berg Werks First Gear Start Module

[paddy@polyposta]

Hi, any one have for sale, or know where I can get my hands on a berg Werks First Gear Start Module?

Required for my 1990 500E W124 M119



Paddy

 

[NicDale]

Stupid question perhaps but can't you just leave it in S and that automatically makes it move off in 1st gear?

Sorry if i'm talking **** here.

 

[paddy@polyposta]

Stupid question perhaps but can't you just leave it in S and that automatically makes it move off in 1st gear?

Sorry if i'm talking **** here.

Indeed you can get the car to pull off in first gear if you drop it into B and then back up to drive, but I would rather have the system as it enables you to program the gear changes etc

Thanks

Paddy

 

[pupsi]

I was under the impression that it would go back to 1 if in Sport mode.
It does this when the car stops moving, at traffic lights for example and you put your foot down, starts in first for me.

However is the car is still rolling, it wont start from first unless you put your foot down and it kicks back, otherwise itll be in gear 2.

From this, i didnt bother getting one.

 

[mercboiuk]

The E500 should be the same as other gearboxes of the time.

If left in Drive, the car will pull anyway in 2nd gear, no matter whether you are in Sport or Economy mode.

If you move the gear lever to the "2" position while stationary, the gearbox will go into 1st. Leave it in "2", and it will upshift automatically from first to second, but then not change into 3rd until you manually change it.

Also, while stationary, if you move the gear lever into position "2" and then back in Drive, you will pull away in first. It will then just upshift as normal.

Also, as pupsi mentions, if you give it the beans off the mark, the gearbox will kick down.
The other 2 ways I've mentioned, means it should be quicker off the mark, as the gearbox won't take time to change down.

HTH

Also, does Berg Werks still exist? And if so, do they still upgrade W124s?
I know Renntech also used to do a first gear start module, too.
I think I read somewhere, MBClub member talbir had/has a 1st gear start module on his 500E and his old E500 (now owned by jaymanek).


Darren

 

[talbir]

First gear start cannot be achieved without the addition of a module to force the valve body to engage 1st gear.

teh only V8 gearbox between 1980 and 1995 to come with first gear start from factory was the 380 engines fitted in the w126.

To achieve first gear start, the MB module can be used (002 545 4132) or an aftermarket one like Bergwerks.

The MB FGS module can be found under the dash on pre 86 w126 cars. Easy to wire up, takes 3 inputs : ground, +12V, speedo pulse and output is +12V to the kickdown wire. First gear is engaged at standstill and upshift is at 7mph unless WOT, where it will stay to redline.

The first gear that is achieved via the 'S' mode is not true first gear start....with that, gearbox is idling in 2nd and 'kicksdown' to first on brisk acceleration. True first gear start is where you actually have the gearbox iding in first. The only way to achieve this is either manually selecting 'B' then back up to D, or have a module do this for you.


talbir

 

[talbir]

The other 2 ways I've mentioned, means it should be quicker off the mark, as the gearbox won't take time to change down.

This is the key - this is why having a FGS module is so beneficial, there is no delay in downshift. The 500E gearbox is a much faster gearbox than the w126 V8 items, but there is no substitute for true first gear start which is what Paddy is after.

Also, does Berg Werks still exist? And if so, do they still upgrade W124s?

Darren

Bergwerks ceased existing in late 2004. They did many w124 upgrades, the best was a nitrous kit for the 500E, taking power output to 430 bhp.

However one of the ex Bergwerks senior partners is the guy building my 6.3 Renntech and 6 spd !

I have yet to come across anyone who knows MBs better than the old Bergwerks gang - phenomenal knowledge. Satish Tummala (also an ex-partner) was the first to do an M119 into a w126, then a V12 into a w126 !


talbir

 

[paddy@polyposta]

The E500 should be the same as other gearboxes of the time.

If left in Drive, the car will pull anyway in 2nd gear, no matter whether you are in Sport or Economy mode.

If you move the gear lever to the "2" position while stationary, the gearbox will go into 1st. Leave it in "2", and it will upshift automatically from first to second, but then not change into 3rd until you manually change it.

Also, while stationary, if you move the gear lever into position "2" and then back in Drive, you will pull away in first. It will then just upshift as normal.

Also, as pupsi mentions, if you give it the beans off the mark, the gearbox will kick down.
The other 2 ways I've mentioned, means it should be quicker off the mark, as the gearbox won't take time to change down.

HTH

Also, does Berg Werks still exist? And if so, do they still upgrade W124s?
I know Renntech also used to do a first gear start module, too.
I think I read somewhere, MBClub member talbir had/has a 1st gear start module on his 500E and his old E500 (now owned by jaymanek).


Darren

Thanks for the info Darren, know all this but I am led to believe from articles that with the berg werks system (who folded a while back) you can programme the gear changes and also get performances readings/timings from your laptop.

Paddy

 

[paddy@polyposta]

First gear start cannot be achieved without the addition of a module to force the valve body to engage 1st gear.

teh only V8 gearbox between 1980 and 1995 to come with first gear start from factory was the 380 engines fitted in the w126.

To achieve first gear start, the MB module can be used (002 545 4132) or an aftermarket one like Bergwerks.

The MB FGS module can be found under the dash on pre 86 w126 cars. Easy to wire up, takes 3 inputs : ground, +12V, speedo pulse and output is +12V to the kickdown wire. First gear is engaged at standstill and upshift is at 7mph unless WOT, where it will stay to redline.

The first gear that is achieved via the 'S' mode is not true first gear start....with that, gearbox is idling in 2nd and 'kicksdown' to first on brisk acceleration. True first gear start is where you actually have the gearbox iding in first. The only way to achieve this is either manually selecting 'B' then back up to D, or have a module do this for you.


talbir

Thanks talbir, as I thought, Paddy

 

[paddy@polyposta]

This is the key - this is why having a FGS module is so beneficial, there is no delay in downshift. The 500E gearbox is a much faster gearbox than the w126 V8 items, but there is no substitute for true first gear start which is what Paddy is after.





Bergwerks ceased existing in late 2004. They did many w124 upgrades, the best was a nitrous kit for the 500E, taking power output to 430 bhp.

However one of the ex Bergwerks senior partners is the guy building my 6.3 Renntech and 6 spd !

I have yet to come across anyone who knows MBs better than the old Bergwerks gang - phenomenal knowledge. Satish Tummala (also an ex-partner) was the first to do an M119 into a w126, then a V12 into a w126 !


talbir

Talbir? You seem to be a database of information and probably a reliable source of advise......

There are a few issues I have with my 500E

Would you mind passing me your thoughts on this link I posted last year

http://www.mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=56994

Paddy

 

[talbir]

Thanks for the info Darren, know all this but I am led to believe from articles that with the berg werks system (who folded a while back) you can programme the gear changes and also get performances readings/timings from your laptop.

Paddy

I think the Bergwerks module allows selection of upshift point, i.e. you choose the speed at which you want the upshift, unlike the MB module which is preset at 7mph) and also allows lock/unlocking of doors.

There was a different FGS module from an ebay seller Andrei (fgsswitch.com) which allowed performance readings via connection to laptop.

I simply connected my door lock/unlock relay to the MB FGS module, so the doors lock automatically at 7mph !

cheers
talbir

 

[paddy@polyposta]

I think the Bergwerks module allows selection of upshift point, i.e. you choose the speed at which you want the upshift, unlike the MB module which is preset at 7mph) and also allows lock/unlocking of doors.

There was a different FGS module from an ebay seller Andrei (fgsswitch.com) which allowed performance readings via connection to laptop.

I simply connected my door lock/unlock relay to the MB FGS module, so the doors lock automatically at 7mph !

cheers
talbir

Would you be refering to this which is up on eBay at the moment?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...0318913915&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT&viewitem=

Paddy

 

[talbir]

Would you be refering to this which is up on eBay at the moment?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/e...0318913915&sspagename=STRK:MEWAX:IT&viewitem=

Paddy

Yep, that's the one. Need to read past some of the blah-de-blah (increased engine life.... )....but i believe the product generally works very well.

I have bought other items from the guy, period AMG stuff, he is fine to deal with.

Note that the 500E has the upshift delay on first gear change to warm up the cats.....once you make your car FGS, it will mean that the first gear change of the day will be prolonged whilst in 1st gear rather than 2nd, which can be quite revvy.

The way to get round this is to fit a switch to turn FGS on/off at choice.

cheers
talbir

 

[jaymanek]

Talbir is there one fitted to my one?!

 

[talbir]

Talbir is there one fitted to my one?!

yep, the MB FGS module is fitted, that's why your doors autolock at 7mph.

I think the module is behind the carpet panel on the centre cosole, where your right foot would be. You just need to connect a wire from pin 1 on the FGS module to the kickdown switch behind the throttle pedla. The KD switch has 4 wires on it - the one you want to link to is the thick gauge black one....the wire that shows +12v with switch depressed and engine running.

I think i may even have spliced into it when i had FGS hooked up....when you pull the panel back, you might see the wire still there but disconnected.


cheers
talbir

 

[jaymanek]

ok cool... Ill have a look next time im wiring something in or out!

Not that fussed, i like the relaxed take off.. just wondered..

 

[grober]

There's a bit about this on the early cars here. http://www.mercedesshop.com/Wikka/W126FirstGearStart/show?time=2008-12-04+15:20:55

 

[talbir]

He hasn't labelled the wiring for anyone who buys the module without the harness....just in case anyone needs that info :

6 pins on the FGS module, they are all numbered ;

Pin 1 : to kickdown switch

Pin 2 : +12V (Hot with pos II)

Pin 3 : blank

Pin 4 : ground

Pin 5 : speed pulse

Pin 6 : blank


cheers
talbir