Brake pad replacement 2003 ML270 CDi

[Bobby Dazzler]

I have a 2003 53 ML270CDi. The brake wear indicator is glowing on the dash when braking sometimes, so it's time to take action. Don't fancy the quote from the MB dealer, so I plan to have a go myself.

Pricing up the pads from various sources, and my local motor factor said that they have two different shaped pads listed for my car, and both state suitable for a 303mm disk. Forgive the awful descriptions that follow...

(1) Square-ish shape secured by two pins.

(2) W-shape-ish secured by a spring clip.

Any idea which is likely to be correct?

Also anyone know if you can re-use the wear sensor in the replacement pad, or whether you have to buy new sensors?

Finally any tips gratefully received:
>> links to how-to guides;
>> suggestions for pads to avoid notorious ML squeal; and
>> suggestions on suppliers in UK.

Many thanks in anticipation!!

 

[Alfie]

I have a 2003 53 ML270CDi. The brake wear indicator is glowing on the dash when braking sometimes, so it's time to take action. Don't fancy the quote from the MB dealer, so I plan to have a go myself.

Pricing up the pads from various sources, and my local motor factor said that they have two different shaped pads listed for my car, and both state suitable for a 303mm disk. Forgive the awful descriptions that follow...

(1) Square-ish shape secured by two pins.

(2) W-shape-ish secured by a spring clip.

Any idea which is likely to be correct?

Also anyone know if you can re-use the wear sensor in the replacement pad, or whether you have to buy new sensors?

Finally any tips gratefully received:
>> links to how-to guides;
>> suggestions for pads to avoid notorious ML squeal; and
>> suggestions on suppliers in UK.

Many thanks in anticipation!!

ML's have sensors on all four wheels. I found this out when the indicator lamp on mine starting flashing. Booked it in to have the fronts changed thinking there was a sensor only on the fronts and it was the rears that needed changing. Cost £252 just for the rears to be replaced. Mercedes recommends replacing the sensors as well as the pads. 3 months later at the next service all four sets of pads needed replacing I was staggered that the rears had on this occasion lasted just 3 months. Decided then to sell the ML.

I think replacing the pads yourself is a much cheaper alternative as the vast cost of the work from a stealership is labour. I personally wouldnt use anything other than the genuine parts for your brakes. As an aside, I was 'unofficially' told that the disks on the ML were designed not to last very long. they have a much lower tolerance level to wear than most other vehicles. when I sold mine with just 21,000 on the clock I was told they would need replacing in about 1,000 miles time! Servicing and regular maintenance on an ML is not cheap.

First you need to work out which set it is that needs replacing. Take a wheel off the front and take a look, then look at the rear if the fronts seem okay.
You may be lucky and 'only' need to replace one set. Make a note of your chassis number and quote it when ordering the pads. This way you will get the right ones for your car. The pads differ from front to rear. Try Mercman on this forum for genuine parts.

Good luck.

 

[grober]

4-ets system

I have read lots of threads about excessive brakepad/disc wear on MLs. I think this stems from the 4-ets system the ml uses for 4 wheel drive. There are good descriptions of this system elsewhere http://www.whnet.com/4x4/ets.html but suffice to say the 4 wheel drive relies on multiple brake applications to provide traction and stability. This gives good on/off road driving characteristics to the car at the expense of accelerated brake wear. Some thing they dont mention in the brochure. Because these cars are sourced from the USA ECP dont seem to stock alternative parts but GSF do http://www.gsfcarparts.com/ pagid and textar. do replace the sensors they dont cost too much. using reputable parts and an independent should get you back on the road.
See http://www.furgasonhomes.com/ml/brakes98ml.htm AND http://www.petefagerlin.com/ML/brakes.htm for a pictorial on DIY ML 98 and ML2003 brake pad/disc replacement :bannana: :bannana:

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Alfie, Graeme - Big thanks for your posts, really useful.

Had to laugh at one of the guides, where it seems plenty of beer is required to do a good job - great tip!!

The car was in for some warranty work just a couple of days before the warning light came on, after I'd asked them to check the condition of the pads. They told me 80% front, 70% rear, and handed me a quote for almost a grand. I'm sure conspiracy theorists might say it wasn't quite a coincidence that the warning lights came on so soon afterwards - I wonder??

I've always stuck to OE parts with all cars, and got the dealer to do the work on newer cars. However the thought of a grand on brake consumables has awoken the desire to have a go, and am contemplating the Pagids in a hope that a slightly different compound will take away that blooming squeal!!

Thanks again for your help guys.

Any other tips, guides and links gratefully received. Want to be as well informed as possible before the spanners come out!!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Found images of the two types of pads here: http://www.speedways.co.uk/apec/list/mercedes-benz/landcruiser.htm

It suggests that pre-2000 the calipers were Kelsey and designed for use with 303mm discs, and are the w-shape pads I described above.

It suggests that post-2000 the calipers are Brembo and designed for use with 345mm discs, and are the square pads I described above.

So from that that I'm beginning to think it's the square ones for my 2003 ML270CDi - what do you think?

Do 2003MY ML270CDi have 345mm discs?

Any help much appreciated!!

 

[grober]

Pads Site

Good find, but make sure you get the genuine brembo pads. If your car is post 2000 then the site would indicate Brembo pads. If your car is assembled in the steyr plant in austria, see the VIN plate, my guess is Brembo. Only sure way is to take off the wheel and inspect the caliper/pads. Have you tried GSF their staff are usually quite knowledgable, have your chassis number ready- see Vin Plate mentioned above. Changing pads is one thing bearing in mind the hazards of dust inhalation (see my previous post on this subject) but discs can be very difficult to remove. My advice would be that DIY on brakes is OK-- IF YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING!!! otherwise best to entrust work to a good independent in your area. Any local skilled mechanic should be able to do this type of work at a fraction of the costs of MB DEALER and sourcing the pads correctly yourself should also help keep costs down. If you do go down the DIY route get a knowledgeable mate round to help the first time you do the job. Brakes on a heavy vehicle such as the ML must be spot on for safety sake!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Cheers matey!! Had noticed GSF have Pagids at a reasonable price, so I'm likely to go for those. You reckon GSF can specify the right pad design from the Chassis number then? Hadn't expected that - thought it would be franchise dealers only.

PS Will get my Dad around to lend a hand so we'll have each other to stare blankly at rather than the ground!!

 

[grober]

Gsf

Both GSF and ECP are pretty good on the chassis nos. After all its their MAIN business. Use their contact form on their website to enquire about the correct pads for your car before ordering. Worth giving a local MB dealer parts dept a visit also to get a price from them also. Get the correct MB part nos for your pads front and rear for future reference while you are there

 

[Billy]

I bought my discs & pads for the wifes ML from JIMMY, Express Parts from this forum, I would suggest contacting him for a quote.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Both GSF and ECP are pretty good on the chassis nos. After all its their MAIN business. Use their contact form on their website to enquire about the correct pads for your car before ordering. Worth giving a local MB dealer parts dept a visit also to get a price from them also. Get the correct MB part nos for your pads front and rear for future reference while you are there

I did exactly this and received a reply from GSF today. Provided chassis number but they didn't say whether they used it to determine which was right pad though. They also said that "No sensors available" - not sure though whether this means that they don't supply them or whether pads don't accept them.

Local dealer already provided price, and have promised a 20% discount following previous fopars, but still much more expensive than GCF, but they do definately utilise the wear sensors.

 

[grober]

Hows your german

probably dont supply the sensors which you should get from MB. Did you get the pagid part nos and MB part nos. If so lok at the pagid online catalogue at http://pagid.eeasy.de/index.jsp?meid=78&user=false&block=false its in german but do the following
1.click on the KATALOGUE-ONLINEKATALOGUE links
2.use the FAHRZEUG drop down menu bottom right of page-select MERCEDES
3.CLICK ON SUCHEN button
4.use PKW drop down menu select M CLASS W163
5. CLICK WETTER
6.Select ML 270 CDI(163.113)
7.CLICK WETTER
you will then get a list of parts in German click on the blue underlined/highlighted hypertext links on left of page for detailed description of part plus picture PLUS THE EQUIVALENT MB PART NOS to cross reference!!!
8.CLICK ZURUCK BUTTON to return to the list.
they appear to beabout to produce an english version but not yet

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Danke Schon!!

Had a look at the pagid website but couldn't find the part numbers MB had given me - it seems Pagid, Textar, and one or two others are all part of the TMD Friction Group, and all share the same Deutsche only online catalogue.

Really useful though as it also appears to list the sensors too, and other branded products, eg Textar, Brembo, etc.

GSF can supply front only in Pagid, or Textar front and rear, so I may plump for the Textar - hadn't heard of them before but having scouted around the Internet it seems they are an OEM supplier to MB.

Part numbers provided by my dealer are as follows, and as I say, I can't find them listed on the Pagid site:
>> MA163 420 10 20
>> MA 163 09 20/27

My latest thinking is that the early ML270CDi had 303mm front disks with Kelsey calipers, shared with 230 and 320 models, and used the W-shaped pads I described. Later ML270CDi have 345mm front disks with Brembo calipers, shared with 430(?), 500, and 55AMG(?), and use the square-shaped pads I described.

Nothings easy is it?? lol

Think I'll go for Textar square fitment and see how it goes. I've probably spent 10 times longer thinking about it than I will doing it.

Thanks for all your help matey!!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Reckon it's possible to re-use the existing sensors?

 

[grober]

Textar are fine. You can reuse the sensors IF THEY ARE IN GOOD CONDITION. They are simply an earthing link so make sure the electrical contacts are in good condition at both ends. What tends to happen is the insulation on the connecting wire goes brittle with heat ( where have I heard that before) giving false readings. If the insulation is Ok then go ahead but since the cost is small best to do it with the pads.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Picked up the Textar pads from GSF yesterday. Really helpful and excellent service!!

Guy explained they don't currently supply the sensors, but they're working on it, and are hoping to offer them very soon.

He also said that if changing pads before the warning light appears then you don't needs to replace sensors, but will need to if it has lit up. Will pick some sensors up from dealer on Monday.

Thanks for all your help matey!!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Had the wheel off today to look at what's involved. Doesn't look too bad, although...

It seems that my car has four-pot Brembo calipers - I'm a bit concerned about how I push back the pistons safely, without one popping out or causing any damage. Anyone got any tips on how best to do it?

Where do I put the anti-squeal paste:
>> between the the metal shim/plate on the back of the pad and the piston/caliper??
>> between the pad and the metal shim/plate??
>> both places??

All help gratefully received!!

 

[grober]

lubricate sparingly

dont know the shims you are talking about but usually they have a teflon type coating which is self lubricating.Does no harm to sparingly lubricate piston to shim, shim to pad surfaces but more important are the ends of the pad backing plates where they slide on the caliper body.lubricate the locating pins also or better still use new ones. lightly coat the surfaces dont leave great gobs of paste otherwise it will end up on the pad friction surface / disc. Basically your trying to lubricate metal to metal surfaces which rub against each other as the pads move sideways to be pressed against the disc without compromising the pad/disc surfaces which must be free of lubricants. see http://www.mercedesshop.com/Wikka/W124BrakePads for some tips. Use the old pads in situ to push the pistons back in the calipers and watch your brake fluid reservoir doesn't over flow. get some help if you are uncertain what to do youcant take risks with brakes

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Come up trumps with that link. Just the job - answers both of my questions!!

Many thanks as always matey!!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Quick note to let you know that pads are now replaced!! Thanks for all the help - very much appreciated!!


For anyone reading this thread in relation to replacing their own pads...


This article really is invaluable - it's very accurate and gives an excellent indication of what's involved - all credit to it's author. Don't be phased by the fact it's for a W124 (E-class?), as the procedure, calipers, and parts appear to be identical to that of the W163 (M-class):
http://www.mercedesshop.com/Wikka/W124BrakePads


This article (extract from MB dealership documentation I believe) is handy, but just too cumbersome to actually be of real use. Best take a look, and then use the W124 link above. That said it is still worth a look though:
http://phdwebsite.powerpulse.cc/Mis...nd installing brake pads on fixed caliper.pdf


Key learning points:

(*) As pointed out by another owner, make sure that the doors are not opened, closed, locked or unlocked whilst working on the brakes, as apparently this can pressurise the system, and cause damage to fingers if they get in the way. Didn't whitness this myself though.

(0) Been 12 years since I last changed pads and that was on a Vauxhall Nova and am very very reluctant to get my hands dirty!! This really isn't any more difficult. Don't be phased by the electrickery that associated with the brakes. The wear sensors are just push fit at each end!! It really is relatively easy to do, butif in doubt, consult an expert!!

(1) Buy a drift punch as making do with nails and screw drivers takes longer than necessary.

(2) Syphoning (spelling?) excess brake fluid was the trickiest job of all. The draper kit I bought was a pain to use - unless it was me using it incorrectly - which is a very real possibility!! Take care with that paintwork!!

(3) If the wear sensor is in the way when removing/inserting retaining pins on the rear axle, it looks like the bracket that it's mounted on can be removed with a single nut. I managed without removing though.

(4) Getting the front wheels back on was the most frustrating and time consuming job of all - getting it positioned correctly is a pain - and ironically is the most difficult aspect of changing the disks!! If you can do this then you can change the pads!!

Thanks to those that helped, and good luck to those that are reading this with a view to doing it themself!!

 

[grober]

wheel bolt alignment tool in toolkit

Glad it worked out OK. In answer to 2 problems you had.
1. Removing brake fluid from reservoir.
use a turkey baster from any good cookshop see picture.
2. getting wheels back on.
have a look in your tool kit for an item like the picture. its an alignment tool to help putting your wheel back on. screw it into a wheel bolt hole temporarily till you get the other bolts done up then remove and replace with last wheel bolt.
I have to confess that after 10+ years of merc ownership I only twigged what this was for recently