Bristol diesel ban

[grober]

https://www.driving.co.uk/car-clini...es-including-tougher-diesel-emissions-limits/
At present you will notice no MOT statutory requirement [or ability perhaps] to routinely measure NOx levels during the test other than registering the ability of any Adblue [urea] system fitted to function = presence of fluid ? and absence of engine warning lights for faulty NOx sensors? Thus emission testing still essentially relies on the manufacturers declared NOx reduction figures. This might change in the future as focus appears to continue to move away from CO2 emisssions slightly to particulates and NOx. Its taken MOT testing a while to catch up with DPF removal but I expect they will eventually catch up with any modification designed to circumvent NOx emisssion levels also. Its interesting that there must have been a trade-off of CO2 emissions V NOx emissions by the regulatory authorities because a reduction in engine thermal efficiency and consequent drop in MPG would imply an increased CO2 per miles travelled in the real world.

 

[markjay]

If local authorities are going to each determine their own criteria for driving into their areas...

Passport to Pimlico comes to mind.

 

[markjay]

I express my kids will be charged on their personal biological co2 emissions. Why they just don't put up the price of [fuel = co2] I do not know?

They did put up the price of fuel... over the years. Around 80% (from memory) of the price at the pump today goes to the government.

The issue is that these are pollution-reducing schemes operated by local authorities, not central government. They don't have the authority to further tax fuel, and even if they did it wouldn't make a difference because motorists will simply by fuel in neighbouring boroughs.

 

[markjay]

The solution for city centre poor air quality is simple, subsidise electric cars (significantly), invest in charging infrastructure, and invest heavily in (again, subsidised) public transport.

But all these cost money, and I am told we are a poor country... so we have to make poor people's choices and ban or tax certain type of cars at certain times instead.

Our own tax money is, apparently, already earmarked by the Chancellor to support other priorities.

 

[Alex225]

To be honest and this isn't news to anyone, the handling of the diesel situation has been a monumental stitch up for the average member of the public. Encouraging people to part with their hard earned cash for vehicles that are 'greener', more economical and in turn cheaper to run and tax. Then turning it round entirely, essentially blaming the public and then screwing us all over with a variety of schemes to tax these vehicles. Now it's banning them entirely and you get a fine! It's f***ing pathetic. Anyway.

The main issue I have with this proposed ban is that it's a ban rather than a deterrent like a charge (as with the London ULEZ). As touched on in one of the posts above, the lack of consistency across City's doesn't help at all. You can drive in this City and pay a charge if your vehicle doesn't comply, but you can't drive in this part of this City at all as you'll be fined etc. Sounds like a very convenient cash cow which will rake in millions from confused and misinformed drivers.

It's not that I don't appreciate the green argument, of course we all want better air to breathe and no diesels aren't well suited to stop start traffic and many of the general public have been ignorant to that fact. At the same time though, it's the public who have been misled in general who get penalised. It's pretty sickening really.

 

[Tonygw]

Bristol city council will wonder why the high street is dead..

Erm they killed it themselves.... muppets.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

B

Bristol won’t miss you

That's the point though, they will miss people like me.

I like to go to interesting places for the weekend and eat at high end restaurants, Bristol needs people like me.

Anyway, both our cars are petrol.

 

[Tonygw]

Perhaps , since we live in a democratic soceity, we as a people should ban city council workers from their office.
Base this on the stupid decisions coming out of there affecting our mental health..

 

[flying haggis]

so anybody who lives in the affected area could now have £100 added to any big delivery ie if you have materials delivered from a builders merchant. Bet the locals will love that!!

 

[Dippo]

Low emission vehicle policy must be consistent, says NFDA

Someone agrees with me.

 

[Dryce]

The solution for city centre poor air quality is simple, subsidise electric cars (significantly), invest in charging infrastructure, and invest heavily in (again, subsidised) public transport.

I would start by stopping buses crawling through city centres. Have the drop off and pick up and mini transport hubs on the edge.

Glasgow was mentioned above. The ridiculous thing about that city is that the buses crawl across the centre - either going to the single bus station at one side or criss crossing on routes that traverse from one side of the city to the other. Have the buses work radially in and back rather than diametrically across - and put two or three additional transport hubs around the central zone. Make people walk a bit more if that's necessary.

 

[flying haggis]

so anybody who lives in the affected area could now have £100 added to any big delivery ie if you have materials delivered from a builders merchant. Bet the locals will love that!!

just to add to my post, when the london congestion charge came in I know some firms added the days cost to every delivery and didnt spread it across all of them!!

 

[m80]

I think there was a thread a while back regarding the future of the diesel and their value going on. I don't read all so don't know the conclusion.

Relevant here is will other skint councils jump on this band wagon creating a trend?
Will some other councils recognise a potential for increased business as those councils do follow the trend, by effectively promoting diesels to visit.
For sure the diesel can't enjoy an advantage from this as the best is to be able to continue 'some' of what can be enjoyed now.

So will diesel values fall over time?
I think there is already a result toward that with their reduced reliability due to their increased complexity. Beyond economic repair will become more common.
It used to be EGR's, then DPF's and associated sensors, now nox sensors and ad blue heaters and other sensors I'd rather not know about.

And all before the Extinct' Rebels slash our tyres for poisoning the butterflies and bees.

 

[grober]

Bristol Clean Air Zone plans set for approval tonight
Some detail including the fact its still a consultation document unlikely to come into effect in its final form till March 2021 [Still time to get that eV on a PCP deal. ]
This initiative is evidently due to statutory requirements to improve their air quality dating back to 2017.*
Private cars banned from 7am till 3pm light commercials £9 per day and heavy goods £100 per day
* Bristol are the first to break cover but unlikely to be the last.
https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/assets/documents/no2ten/2017-zone-plans/AQplans_UK0030.pdf
taken from
Air quality plan for nitrogen dioxide (NO₂) in the UK, 2017 - Defra, UK

 

[flying haggis]

so if the ban comes in to force what will happen if hauliers refuse to deliver into the zone

 

[190]

so if the ban comes in to force what will happen if hauliers refuse to deliver into the zone

As someone pointed out they will kill off the already dying High street, in which case there will be no one to deliver to so pollution problem solved at a stroke. The only occupied building left in the city centre will be the council offices where the councillors can sit and admire their handiwork.

 

[John N]

As someone pointed out they will kill off the already dying High street, in which case there will be no one to deliver to so pollution problem solved at a stroke. The only occupied building left in the city centre will be the council offices where the councillors can sit and admire their handiwork.

How will the Councillors get to their Offices?

 

[flying haggis]

How will the Councillors get to their Offices?

bet they will vote to make themselves exempt from the charge

 

[johnsco]

so if the ban comes in to force what will happen if hauliers refuse to deliver into the zone

A friend who runs a small transport company (4 trucks) decided some time ago to stop taking business involving the new London charging zone.
The hassle and cost was not worth it to him.

 

[kianok]

To be honest and this isn't news to anyone, the handling of the diesel situation has been a monumental stitch up for the average member of the public. Encouraging people to part with their hard earned cash for vehicles that are 'greener', more economical and in turn cheaper to run and tax. Then turning it round entirely, essentially blaming the public and then screwing us all over with a variety of schemes to tax these vehicles. Now it's banning them entirely and you get a fine! It's f***ing pathetic. Anyway.

The main issue I have with this proposed ban is that it's a ban rather than a deterrent like a charge (as with the London ULEZ). As touched on in one of the posts above, the lack of consistency across City's doesn't help at all. You can drive in this City and pay a charge if your vehicle doesn't comply, but you can't drive in this part of this City at all as you'll be fined etc. Sounds like a very convenient cash cow which will rake in millions from confused and misinformed drivers.

It's not that I don't appreciate the green argument, of course we all want better air to breathe and no diesels aren't well suited to stop start traffic and many of the general public have been ignorant to that fact. At the same time though, it's the public who have been misled in general who get penalised. It's pretty sickening really.

Government are still happy to collect all the tax on the sale of diesel vehicles.

then allow LA’s to ban them.

Nice!

In France they’d be blocking the roads with tyres and burning sheeps!