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C350cdi remap

Wow, now that's an impressive 0-60, what is quoted as stock?

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Hi,

Offical MKB figure is supposed to be 6.2 sec.

German tuner PP Performance who did the W218 CLS 350 CDI performance tuning in partnerhsip with Foslta also claim a 0-60MPH of 5.2 sec but peak torque is only deliverd over the stock RPM range but they ofer vmax as well.
 
Which tuner did you use?

MKB Tuning in Germany - the remap was actually customised live on their rolling road and tuned to perfection for the actual engine. They refused to remap the ECU without the car being physically present in their workshop. car was fully tssted before it left on their dyno/rolling road and they spent a good few hours on the actual tuning.
 
With the utmost respect a diesel stock standard C350 CDI engine without a remap would have a petrol C350 for breakfast with its torque and the 0-60mph sprint times are pretty much identical. Now a remapped V6 3L CDI engine that is at stock level producing i.e. 195KW/261bhp/620nm of torque can be tuned to produce 700nm plus from just the stock low rpm of 1600rpm to 3000rpm depending on the tuner . With the petrol equivalent V6 3L engine you cannot simply achieve this level of power/torque output. I am not bothered about fuel economy and it did not come into the equation.
Remapping just like any other modification work is carried out at the owner’s risks.
I actually chose the CLS 350 CDI engine simply due to its power and torque delivery from such low RPM range in comparison to the petrol equivalent V6 3L engine and 0-60mp was identical. Surprisingly, the engine is very smooth and quiet and inside the cabin you cannot even tell it is diesel. After going to a highly reputable Mercedes German tuner the engine is now pumping out 718NM of torque, 0-0MPH is down to 5.2sec with vmax and the extra peak torque is available over a much wider RPM range over the stock engine. A stock CLS 63 AMG without any tuning produces around the same amount of torque as my remap.
My remap is also running within the safe tolerance levels of the vehicle’s capability and remains in the same emission class and actually drives even smoother then when the car left the factory.

Very well explained also extra mpg comes as an automatic extra on the remapped diesel!

I know it depends on year and motor OM642 V6 etc. but 2006 my C320CDI has exactly the same torque output in the official book as the C55 both in standard trim thanks to on the C320 of the auto 7g box.

Of course the bhp is vastly different with the C320CDI @ 224bhp and the C55 @ 367bhp but it does show how the diesel engine is vastly superior in all ways including being a fully forged engine!

My own C320CDI with it`s remap i have just managed to grab with my new tyres 5.7 to 60 whereas the C55 is 5.4.....i am talking the heavier Estate Model which mine is.

Best to look at the 50mph to 75mph in gear time of 6.2sec for both standard motors is the same.

OK so not everyone speeds around but to cap it all for me and this is the only thing why i won`t swop my motor for the 55 is the fuel consumption.

I got 40.5 mpg as std. C320CDI remapped 45.1mpg compare that to the C55 of 20mpg or if tip- toeing 30mpg.....that is the reason why we buy diesel and remap them compared with buying plain petrol.
 
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Flash said:
With the utmost respect a diesel stock standard C350 CDI engine without a remap would have a petrol C350 for breakfast with its torque and the 0-60mph sprint times are pretty much identical.
An interesting observation. My bog standard petrol C350 has a quoted time of 5.9 seconds to 60mph. Only 0.3 seconds quicker than the same year C350 CDI but still quicker. Then on to 100 mph it must be a larger gap because of the diesel's lower power and heavier weight having to compete with the greater number of horses that come into their own at higher speeds with the petrol engine. So perhaps the "breakfast" you talk about is a few cornflakes enjoyed between 10 and 40mph where the diesel's turbo-assisted torque will see it catch then briefly pass the petrol? Indeed, when that turbo (or turbos) lag is eventually taken up you'll get a very satisfying kick in the back - a bit like a chilli in your cornflakes? This is obviously what a lot of people want. But my bacon and eggs breakfast will give me what I prefer - sustained pleasure.

Basically I don't think it's so much about the numbers as how those numbers translate into driving pleasure. But interpretation of that pleasure is akin to the enjoyment provided by Guns N' Roses' "Sweet Child O' Mine" and Carl Orff's "O Fortuna". Both fantastic in their own way, yet so very different. Some of us want rasping staccato rushes of adrenaline whilst others want refined and powerful consistency. The end result of the time it takes to get from A to B may vary little, it's how that journey is delivered that matters more to car lovers like us. Nobody can rightfully claim that one is better than the other, just that personal taste dictates choice.

Anyway, pure performance comparisons are meaningless because there are far too many mechanical variations to be factored into the equations. Can you really compare a turbocharged engine with one that's normally aspirated? And what about the influence the heavier diesel lump at the front will have on cornering stability? Could it even be argued that the diesel's far superior torque can be a disadvantage on slippery surfaces where the higher twisting forces are very much unwanted? No engine comparison is like comparing eggs with eggs.

I guess it's all comes down to what you're used to, which usually dictates your preferences. So to return to my earlier food metaphors, most people who crave beef-burgers and fries with a Coke would chose them over beef Wellington with steamed baby potatoes and asparagus washed down with an elegant merlot. Many others happen to prefer the latter. Neither is right or wrong.

But all that, and posts from others here, still doesn't answer my question about why manufacturers don't map their cars during manufacture. Could it be that they try to get the best compromise between performance, economy and reliability? If so, as a result of spending billions in development, isn't it logical that during post-production mapping one or more factors will suffer whilst improving others? Of course the companies will refute this or they'd go out of business, so they provide lots of impressive figures and graphs. If that's what customers want then that's fine - or is it? That's what VW (and many others) did with their emission test results!
 
Here we go, it's all starting again... Just seems like a personal issue with diesels rather than anything else.


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I jump between a 5.5 twin turbo petrol and both straight 6 and V6 diesels. I never feel shortchanged in terms of performance when driving the diesels. In fact the in gear pace is superb and the V6 sounds good, admittedly not as good as the V6 petrol.
I personally would take the V6 diesel over the V6 petrol everytime.
 
An interesting observation. My bog standard petrol C350 has a quoted time of 5.9 seconds to 60mph. Only 0.3 seconds quicker than the same year C350 CDI but still quicker. Then on to 100 mph it must be a larger gap because of the diesel's lower power and heavier weight having to compete with the greater number of horses that come into their own at higher speeds with the petrol engine. So perhaps the "breakfast" you talk about is a few cornflakes enjoyed between 10 and 40mph where the diesel's turbo-assisted torque will see it catch then briefly pass the petrol? Indeed, when that turbo (or turbos) lag is eventually taken up you'll get a very satisfying kick in the back - a bit like a chilli in your cornflakes? This is obviously what a lot of people want. But my bacon and eggs breakfast will give me what I prefer - sustained pleasure.

Basically I don't think it's so much about the numbers as how those numbers translate into driving pleasure. But interpretation of that pleasure is akin to the enjoyment provided by Guns N' Roses' "Sweet Child O' Mine" and Carl Orff's "O Fortuna". Both fantastic in their own way, yet so very different. Some of us want rasping staccato rushes of adrenaline whilst others want refined and powerful consistency. The end result of the time it takes to get from A to B may vary little, it's how that journey is delivered that matters more to car lovers like us. Nobody can rightfully claim that one is better than the other, just that personal taste dictates choice.

Anyway, pure performance comparisons are meaningless because there are far too many mechanical variations to be factored into the equations. Can you really compare a turbocharged engine with one that's normally aspirated? And what about the influence the heavier diesel lump at the front will have on cornering stability? Could it even be argued that the diesel's far superior torque can be a disadvantage on slippery surfaces where the higher twisting forces are very much unwanted? No engine comparison is like comparing eggs with eggs.

I guess it's all comes down to what you're used to, which usually dictates your preferences. So to return to my earlier food metaphors, most people who crave beef-burgers and fries with a Coke would chose them over beef Wellington with steamed baby potatoes and asparagus washed down with an elegant merlot. Many others happen to prefer the latter. Neither is right or wrong.

But all that, and posts from others here, still doesn't answer my question about why manufacturers don't map their cars during manufacture. Could it be that they try to get the best compromise between performance, economy and reliability? If so, as a result of spending billions in development, isn't it logical that during post-production mapping one or more factors will suffer whilst improving others? Of course the companies will refute this or they'd go out of business, so they provide lots of impressive figures and graphs. If that's what customers want then that's fine - or is it? That's what VW (and many others) did with their emission test results!

So if remapping has adverse affects on the reliabilty and longevity of a vehicle's mechanical components/engine etc. then why do Mercedes Benz have the Brabus Eco power extra modules which in diesel engines add an additional 80nm of torque and 40bhp plus and obviously on the petrol engines considerably less gains of course!

Give me a V6 diesel any day over a petrol engine.
 
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Apologies to all the over sensitive diesel owners. I wrote a piece giving my thoughts that we all like different things, which is why some of us prefer diesel power and some prefer petrol. But It appears from the responses that I have trodden on some delicate toes. Apologies again and please continue to live in the belief that nothing other than diesel should be given any credence. After all, that's what we in the UK have been told for many years so it must be true. Anything daring to conflict with this worship can only be the work of non-believers. I apologise for having the audacity to express an open mind on the subject. I don't know what came over me. It must be all the NOx and particulates getting to my poor brain. ;)
 
Apologies to all the over sensitive diesel owners. I wrote a piece giving my thoughts that we all like different things, which is why some of us prefer diesel power and some prefer petrol. But It appears from the responses that I have trodden on some delicate toes. Apologies again and please continue to live in the belief that nothing other than diesel should be given any credence. After all, that's what we in the UK have been told for many years so it must be true. Anything daring to conflict with this worship can only be the work of non-believers. I apologise for having the audacity to express an open mind on the subject. I don't know what came over me. It must be all the NOx and particulates getting to my poor brain. ;)
So far it looks like one is the sensitive petrol sole which is stuck in the pre diesel era. Speaking about being open minded - it may be worth reading through some of the statements made once again.

Open your mind and appreciate that opinions will be different across the board.
 
Drive a Diesel, and experience the wall of torque. It's addictive. A million miles away from the Diesel engines of 20 years ago.

The reason the manufacturers install a conservative map is that they have to allow for varying fuel quality and emission regs across a number of countries...


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knighterrant said:
Apologies to all the over sensitive diesel owners. I wrote a piece giving my thoughts that we all like different things, which is why some of us prefer diesel power and some prefer petrol. But It appears from the responses that I have trodden on some delicate toes. Apologies again and please continue to live in the belief that nothing other than diesel should be given any credence. After all, that's what we in the UK have been told for many years so it must be true. Anything daring to conflict with this worship can only be the work of non-believers. I apologise for having the audacity to express an open mind on the subject. I don't know what came over me. It must be all the NOx and particulates getting to my poor brain. ;)

I dont think its your opinion that bothers people more like the way you express it. Calling it worship when people answer your questions for example.

Maybe we should all drive petrol cars and ask what seem like retorical questions
 
I had the pleasure of meeting Acid today at msl. And what a nice bloke and very knowledgable. Very busy workshop with some great cars.


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I had the pleasure of meeting Acid today at msl. And what a nice bloke and very knowledgable. Very busy workshop with some great cars.


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And what was the result
 
At the flywheel before 260bhp after 305bhp 510ftlb. I was a little surprised myself at that


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At the flywheel before 260bhp after 305bhp 510ftlb. I was a little surprised myself at that


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Wow... Definitely worth a visit then!
 
Hi Avnt

That's a great gain!

I have the same C350CDI 231 2010 but an estate. How does it drive and feel after the map? How does the gearbox feel?

I've been thinking about having it done for a while and live 40 minutes from MSL. Would you Recommend?
Cheers
 
Wow... Definitely worth a visit then!


Well just driven home. Definatly worth a visit. Just made the car so smooth thru the gears and its effortless how it puts power to the road. Anyone in 2 minds just go for it. MSL are very professional. Also Acid and all his team from me arriving made me feel welcome there. It is a lot bigger garage than i though. Some beautiful cars in there as well


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Hi Avnt



That's a great gain!



I have the same C350CDI 231 2010 but an estate. How does it drive and feel after the map? How does the gearbox feel?



I've been thinking about having it done for a while and live 40 minutes from MSL. Would you Recommend?

Cheers


Mines also a 231 estate. I had 260 stock which was a pleasent surprise. It has made the gear changes and the drive even more effort less than before. Give Acid or Micheal a call and get it booked. The dyno is worth having as you see what your car is putting on the rollers and at the engine so you know what figures you have.


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Mines also a 231 estate. I had 260 stock which was a pleasent surprise. It has made the gear changes and the drive even more effort less than before. Give Acid or Micheal a call and get it booked. The dyno is worth having as you see what your car is putting on the rollers and at the engine so you know what figures you have.


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Cheers, I think I will when I get chance.
 
C350cdi is the best C class engine for a daily driver. Why MB havnt put it in the w205 I don't know!!!
 

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