C63 vs rs7

[Andrew W]

Very interesting read as I was a big Audi fan s few
years ago now gone AMG , but just to add I was
following a Seat Leon who was going uncomfortably slow so I was about to overtake
when he then accelerated away. I opened the
taps on the cls55 but he was still pulling away .
Now would I be quicker after say 100mph I don't
Know but it left me feeling bewildered as I was
In a 500hp super saloon and his looked like it was worth 3k max.!!!

 

[developer]

Mapping and tuning is so common these days there's every chance you're running against a modified performance car.

Lots of surprises out there...

 

[Andrew W]

Mapping and tuning is so common these days there's every chance you're running against a modified performance car. Lots of surprises out there...

There sure is ..

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I once raced an ECP van in my E55 and didn't see which way it went after less than a mile.

 

[Codger49]

An old car dealer friend of mine always used to say 'its not what you drive, its the way that you drive it'

 

[developer]

An old car dealer friend of mine always used to say 'its not what you drive, its the way that you drive it'

Fun Boy Three

 

[Grovsie31]

Not really a fanboy, I just recognise superior automobile engineering when I see it. FYI - this is coming from someone who's just bought a brand new CLS 63 AMG S! :fail

Was mainly reffering to the fact nobody believed the original poster, yet the power to weight figures are basically identical so why couldn't it happen.

Hell you can make a nova beat a Ferrari 458 with enough spent on it.

 

[Mrhanky]

Very interesting read as I was a big Audi fan s few
years ago now gone AMG , but just to add I was
following a Seat Leon who was going uncomfortably slow so I was about to overtake
when he then accelerated away. I opened the
taps on the cls55 but he was still pulling away .
Now would I be quicker after say 100mph I don't
Know but it left me feeling bewildered as I was
In a 500hp super saloon and his looked like it was worth 3k max.!!!

My wifes seat leon is an 02 car and has all sorts of engine mods including intercooler, turbo and map. I think its running about 260ish and its totally stock from the outside including the 16" wheels.

Its a hoot to drive and upto 70ish is very rapid. I say that even compared to my tuned E55.

 

[Grovsie31]

Sensation of speed.

Also id imagine the E55 is a rather smooth power delivery, my C55 is very smooth, it doesn't have the kick of a turbo or top end of the DC5 I had, but its much quicker than it lol and that kept most hot hatches I came across more than honest.

 

[MoAMG]

Was mainly reffering to the fact nobody believed the original poster, yet the power to weight figures are basically identical so why couldn't it happen. Hell you can make a nova beat a Ferrari 458 with enough spent on it.

Going by the, now, common (mis)conception that 4WDs lose a lot more power in their drivetrain in comparison to RWDs, at that sort of power, I'm surprised the OP was only able to 'keep it at bay'. Whereas, I'd expect him to have eased ahead... Perhaps he's lost the map after all because that'd make more sense going by your logic!

 

[Scott_F]

A few months back I was unsure if my C63's ecu had been wiped by MB and lost its eurocharged Map... Today my car kept up with a new audi RS7 fairly easy with 3 up in the car so guess it still has the map , bad news is think a mobile police unit may have caught me on camera :-(

What's the Max Speed allowed before u lose ur license?

Possibly not such a bad thing ?

I know for a fact the RS7 driver was going balls to the Wall as he overtook me at 100+ and was weaving in and out of traffic like an idiot, this is before I even started going for it myself.

 

[V8andTurbos]

Going by the, now, common (mis)conception that 4WDs lose a lot more power in their drivetrain in comparison to RWDs, at that sort of power, I'm surprised the OP was only able to 'keep it at bay'. Whereas, I'd expect him to have eased ahead... Perhaps he's lost the map after all because that'd make more sense going by your logic!

We hit traffic but I'm sure if we had clear roads ahead the C63 would have caught up and possibly even overtaken the RS7.

Think it's pretty obv the map is still there, not sure how a 457bhp C63 would keep up with a 550+ bhp audi otherwise.

To make another comparison my friends CLA45 AMG is seriously quick off the mark but whn we were on the motorway my C63 left his car by 10 car lengths + before i slowed down...

Funny thing is nowadays anyone can drive a performance car fast (if it's an auto). All u have to do is point and shoot, ESP if it's 4WD etc..

My old E39 M5 on the other hand was hard to drive fast and very rewarding. At stock 397 bhp felt seat in bum fast as my mapped C63...

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Going by the, now, common (mis)conception that 4WDs lose a lot more power in their drivetrain in comparison to RWD's

While there's no definite % loss that can be applied as a rule of thumb, it's a fact that 4WD systems lose more power than RWD through the drivetrain. Or is this something that car manufacturers put out there to sell cars to people like me...

So if you have two cars with 500bhp (for example), one 4WD and the other rear wheel drive, the rear wheel drive will be making more power to the wheels.

What's so hard to accept in that?

 

[MoAMG]

Nothing. The only thing you forgot to take into account there is the advances in modern engineering. I agree in principle that RWDs will have the marginal advantage on paper, the question is though, how much of that 'additional' output goes to good use, rather than causing the obviously amusing traction issues?

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Nothing. The only thing you forgot to take into account there is the advances in modern engineering.

Ok, so tell me how and which advances in modern engineering change what I know, I'm genuinely interested.

 

[MoAMG]

Ok, so tell me how and which advances in modern engineering change what I know, I'm genuinely interested.

The evolution of Quattro... http://m.awdwiki.com/en/quattro+evolutions/

 

[Deleted member 37751]

The evolution of Quattro... M: Quattro Evolutions | awd cars, 4x4 vehicles, 4wd trucks, 4motion, quattro, xDrive, SH-AWD, Haldex, Torsen, wiki - How it works

I don't see anywhere in that article that mentions how they've circumnavigated around drivetrain loss? Mentions traction a lot and how the power can be split between the axles (up to 70% front and 85% to the back)

Can you explain it to me, exactly how it achieves what you say?

 

[MoAMG]

I don't see anywhere in that article that mentions how they've circumnavigated around drivetrain loss? Mentions traction a lot and how the power can be split between the axles (up to 70% front and 85% to the back) Can you explain it to me, exactly how it achieves what you say?

I feel your question is best directed at our old friend, Google. There are plenty of articles out there that explain how manufacturers are constantly striving to engineer more efficient components... Which only leads one to draw the following conclusion... Either the C63 is running standard power, the 'race' didn't happen at all or the RS7 wasn't trying to race the OP.

I know you love your figures, so here are some for your enjoyment:

1- The standard RS7 with 15% drivetrain loss would be kicking out circa 246bhp/tonne

2- The C63 at 500bhp with 10% drivetrain loss would be kicking out circa 262bhp/tonne. However, at the manufacturer stated 451bhp, the car would be kicking out circa 237bhp/tonne. Which would sound like a more convincing explanation to the outcome of the 'race'.

Why was the C63 in this instance behind the said RS7? One could safely say that based on the figures above, the C63 should be able to pull away from the RS7... Why was that not the case?

 

[MoAMG]

End of the day the RS7 will be faster in probably every circumstance but when rolling at 60 mph + there's not that much in it, fact!

Please see the attached quote.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I feel your question is best directed at our old friend, Google. There are plenty of articles out there that explain how manufacturers are constantly striving to engineer more efficient components...

Oh right, sorry, just thought with how certain you were about the points in this thread that you were mechanically minded or of an engineering background.

I recall ChrisA writing something about drivetrain losses (might have been something to do with dynos) so I'll have a good read through that thread.