C63AMG Help needed

[glojo]

Red or Blue can't decide.

White?? Where is white

I know it is on the list but surely you cannot say red a blue without including white?

Red, white and blue, in fact howabout a Union Jack motif painted on the roof?

 

[timskemp]

LSD? PCP? These are NOT things you should be taking before driving that car!

 

[wemorgan]

So why the LSD then?

To me not having it would be on a par with having a sports car and fitting budget tyres.

 

[robert.saunders]

... on a par with having a sports car and fitting budget tyres.

Or living on a postage stamp excuse for an island.

 

[scumbag]

well if grey gets more than 50% of the vote, that's the choice. so you can all say you had your input.


still not sure about Limited Slip Rear Axle tho!

not seen a convincing argument for it.

 

[wemorgan]

Even on paradise island I'm sure it rains.
This will lead to variable amounts of grip on the road, especially as it dries.
The LSD will maximise the car's grip for safety and speed by increasing the power to the wheel with the most grip.

 

[scumbag]

Even on paradise island I'm sure it rains.
This will lead to variable amounts of grip on the road, especially as it dries.
The LSD will maximise the car's grip for safety and speed by increasing the power to the wheel with the most grip.

forgive me for saying this....but the ESP and all that, plus the manually operating throttle does not shout to me that I must spend £1.3k on some additional device for pressing on in the rain....

 

[N/B]

forgive me for saying this...

No.

 

[st4]

forgive me for saying this....but the ESP and all that, plus the manually operating throttle does not shout to me that I must spend £1.3k on some additional device for pressing on in the rain....

A wise £1.3k if it keeps you on the road and not on your roof....it adds numerous handling advantages as already said.

IMHO LSD's should be on all diesel C classes and all V6 petrols upwards on account of the torque generated. Its just bean counters that prevent it being standard fit and not something that should be on the car.

Autocar tested a 335i BMW and then the birds tuned one which had the slipper, and Chris Harris (top driver) claimed the birds 335i with the slippy diff was a transformation.

Then again if your not really pressing on a lot with the car then the LSD isn't important, but then a C350, C320cdi would have been a wiser buy but thats not the point, you want the ultimate C class, and IMHO the ultimate C class has an LSD. Just IMHO of course....

 

[scumbag]

, you want the ultimate C class, and IMHO the ultimate C class has an LSD. Just IMHO of course....

Well thats not a convincing argument......however it is a very valid and well put point.

I shall take it under consideration while I find out a bit about LSD's.

I am just thinking I can keep adding gizmo's like the Performance Pack for the one of 2 times I get to really hang it out, and yet, for the rest of the time, having stiffer suspension and squeaky breaks until warm appears to be a further 2 grand for no benefit. which is the same as the LSD in my view. I think given my usual driving style, I can cope without.

Then again.................no, its the sound I am really after!

 

[wemorgan]

I think given my usual driving style, I can cope without.

You'd also cope with a lot less than a 6.2L V8......but that's not the point

Then again.................no, its the sound I am really after! .

If you're after the sound, then maybe a little bit of you is also after the bragging rights too...........LSD does that in spades.

Would you buy a front-wheel drive 450bhp car?
So don't buy a 450bhp car without LSD

 

[andy_k]

Well thats not a convincing argument......however it is a very valid and well put point.

I shall take it under consideration while I find out a bit about LSD's.

I am just thinking I can keep adding gizmo's like the Performance Pack for the one of 2 times I get to really hang it out, and yet, for the rest of the time, having stiffer suspension and squeaky breaks until warm appears to be a further 2 grand for no benefit. which is the same as the LSD in my view. I think given my usual driving style, I can cope without.

Then again.................no, its the sound I am really after!

which is why it's crying out to be bright red - at least that way it looks the part

 

[scumbag]

which is why it's crying out to be bright red - at least that way it looks the part

Andy,

I like bright red, but I feel it shouts boy racer.

I just want it to do what it has to do without having to say anything other than make me happier.

I think the grey and the blues kind of make it unremarkable to everyone except those who know what it is and appreciate it for that.

Anyone want a ride in it by the way? You will need to wait until I come back on a trip to the UK, but I am sure I can organise that to coincide with a GTG.

 

[Mudster]

When I ordered mine last year I was sold on Tenorite until I saw it in the flesh, then I saw a Palladium car, it was a world apart mainly becasue it works so well with the wheels and front grille.

I had ordered an Estate in Palldium and black leather, but the economic world blew itself apart and took a large chunk of my business with it so I had to let it go.

I did drive one though and the LSD is an absolute must but I chose to forgo the Performance pack as I couldn't live with the very very harsh ride as opposed to stiff ride of the standard 18" wheels and suspension. Oh and completely debadged of course....you don't need badges when you have four exhausts and a sound track like that.

This is a very very fast estate car.

Oh and if you're buying this from Jacksons and your dealer contact there happens to be Darron (probably the business manager) do say Alan said Hi, He's a very old friend, I was best man at his wedding a few years ago.

 

[scumbag]

Oh and if you're buying this from Jacksons and your dealer contact there happens to be Darron (probably the business manager) do say Alan said Hi, He's a very old friend, I was best man at his wedding a few years ago.

Will do.

I see him driving a smart car about.....amusing but practical.

 

[hawk20]

A wise £1.3k if it keeps you on the road and not on your roof....it adds numerous handling advantages as already said.

IMHO LSD's should be on all diesel C classes and all V6 petrols upwards on account of the torque generated. Its just bean counters that prevent it being standard fit and not something that should be on the car.

Autocar tested a 335i BMW and then the birds tuned one which had the slipper, and Chris Harris (top driver) claimed the birds 335i with the slippy diff was a transformation.

Then again if your not really pressing on a lot with the car then the LSD isn't important, but then a C350, C320cdi would have been a wiser buy but thats not the point, you want the ultimate C class, and IMHO the ultimate C class has an LSD. Just IMHO of course....

But you ignore the fact that many/most recent MBs come with ASR (acceleration skid control) and ESP as well. In normal use on normal UK roads it is pretty hard to make a case for more.

Even the 4 litre diesels don't need limited slip nowadays because ESP and ASR work so well. Unless you are doing track work and want to switch the ESP off.

But on an island with a 35mph speed limit, why bother?

 

[andy_k]

Andy,

I like bright red, but I feel it shouts boy racer.

I just want it to do what it has to do without having to say anything other than make me happier.

I'd agree with you on red saloons but red estate could never be associated with boy racers

Anyway, it's your car and your choice, make sure it's just what you want

 

[LimitedSlip]

I shall take it under consideration while I find out a bit about LSD's.

Even the 4 litre diesels don't need limited slip nowadays because ESP and ASR work so well. Unless you are doing track work and want to switch the ESP off.

Bear in mind that the electronics (ESP, ASR etc.) are only capable of controlling and manipulating what is physically there on the car, in this case, in the rear axle.

When a driven wheel on one end of the axle loses traction, this limits the drive available to the other wheel. This is because the axle cage needs resistance from both driven wheels to "centre" itself to supply maximum drive. Park one rear wheel of your Merc on a patch of ice, the other on dry tarmac. Engage drive, apply throttle and spin the wheel on the ice as fast as you like; you are going nowhere! No real drive to either wheel, even though one has grip available to it.

This is a characteristic of the design of the differential, which must allow for the different radii followed by inner & outer wheels during cornering, and hence different wheels speeds. Not having this facility would lead to strain on components, noise, discomfort, awkward/harsh handling and increased tyre wear as the wheels "fight" each other for their correct speed of rotation for the corner radius.

The upside of this situation (taking a fully locked or non-slipping diff) is that both wheels are supplying power to the ground equally and hence propelling the car more. Even the act of allowing different wheel speeds when there is no wheelspin saps some available drive in the asymmetric power delivery of the diff. assembly.

In racing, none of the above disadvantages are a relevant problem as they would be on a road car. Most of the fight of the different wheel speeds is dealt with by tyre slip/skid angle, drift of the vehicle and cornering technique. Notice you rarely see any serious wheelspin on vehicles on the race tracks once off the line.

A "limited slip differential" - LSD - (there are various types) is basically a device that allows operation in a range somewhere between fully locked, and fully "open" (no locking action). It aims to give the best of both worlds within feasible limits, and also a progressive transition in operation (Incidentally, "slip" refers to slip within the diff. unit, not of the wheels, though it amounts to the same thing).

I don't yet understand the MB ESP/ASR system specifically enough to know its intimate workings, but any electronic stabilty management working with open (conventional) differential(s) can only influence stability by reducing drive to the wheel that does have drive, when it senses a possible "situation" developing.

This is the opposite effect to a pure physically locked diff. in that its default is to always provide drive when the throttle is applied. It's trickier to control but it's faster.

A pseudo effect of some stability programs is that they can apply brake (independantly of the driver) to the wheel losing traction. This has the effect of loading the differential cage assembly and stopping the internal rotation or rolling that robs the available power from the best-gripping wheel. However, this means that ultimate power delivery is then being partially restrained by the brakes: a compromise.

A simple summary is that a vehicle with a well controlled and modulated system of limiting slip on the drive axle(s) will always provide more ultimate traction than an open diff. system, whatever the electronics. Of course if there is no grip to be had... there is no grip to be had. On a slippy surface where both wheels struggle to grip, this is the limiting factor. The LSD however will always better access what grip is available.

The main benefits are improved traction and acceleration from standstill (on dry or slippery surfaces: no more single black stripes off the line!) and better transmission of power during cornering, particularly on the exits of corners. Modern systems can use the benefits of the extra available drive for further stability gains too.

Would you notice the LSD on a C63? In most normal driving situations at sane speeds on the roads, and bearing in mind the huge capabilities of the car anyway, probably not. Using it hard, and on marginal surfaces... sometimes. On a race track, near the car's limits? Definitely. Increased capability of the car's existing stability and safety systems? I don't know the answer to that one without knowing if and how it's integrated with the C63's existing set-up.

For £1.3k on top of what's being spent anyway, and bearing in mind what was posted about future resale... I'd 'ave it

 

[glojo]

Hi Limited slip
A nice post and whilst I agree in theory with most of what you have said I fear that the electronics on our Mercedes is better than you are alleging.

When a driven wheel on one end of the axle loses traction, this limits the drive available to the other wheel. This is because the axle cage needs resistance from both driven wheels to "centre" itself to supply maximum drive. Park one rear wheel of your Merc on a patch of ice, the other on dry tarmac. Engage drive, apply throttle and spin the wheel on the ice as fast as you like; you are going nowhere! No real drive to either wheel, even though one has grip available to it.

Our Sprinter van.... Yes a blooming van has the latest gadgetry and my wife parked with one rear wheelon a slippery surface... Yes there was flashing warning lights and a few knocking noises, but hey ho away we go. The Sprinter pulled off the slippery surface with no problem.



On the school run one winter my wife was driving our E-class and where the cars all usually turn round, that location became a skating ring. The vehicle in front of my wife left the road and mounted the pavement and came to rest against the wall.. It had slid on the sheet ice. It was a 4x4 Discovery and was NOT being driven fast or erractically. My wife just thought the driver had a funny turn but as she negotiated the turn she again noticed some fancy coloured warning lights on our dash lighting up, and once more there were 'funny'noises coming from the car, but that was it. No sliding, no crashing, just great gadetry doing what itsays on the label.

If Scumbag wants to leave some very nice 'vapour trails'on the highway\runway then the lsd option is the way to go. If he wants to use the thing on Guernsey track days ... Then that is the way to go. Will it be an option that he gets ALL his money back? I have no idea, but do we ever get all our option money back when selling a car? (sometimes)

To really strip rubber from those tyres you will need the LSD.. To throw you right back into mthe seast you might need LSD. To frighten the bee jepers out of you,then sit next to me when I drive an A-class 140 as I feel that you will always get more satisfaction on a public highway when you make progress in a lesser powered vehicle.

To me on our highways and bye-ways the real MEGA grin factor when driving this vehicle will be that 'rumble in the jungle' The noise of that V8 will beat any Ozzy Osbourne record and hopefully Scumbag will find the underground tunnel that links the islands and cruise tillhis ears are content LSD is a nice option for wearing out those cheap boots these vehicles like to wear, but the rumble of the V8 is the major option

 

[st4]

To me on our highways and bye-ways the real MEGA grin factor when driving this vehicle will be that 'rumble in the jungle' The noise of that V8 will beat any Ozzy Osbourne record and hopefully Scumbag will find the underground tunnel that links the islands and cruise tillhis ears are content LSD is a nice option for wearing out those cheap boots these vehicles like to wear, but the rumble of the V8 is the major option

Nah, he needs to take it back up to Scotland and drive it on some propah roads....