Damage To My Car When In Care Of Garage (disuputing)

[SilverSaloon]

hi

in relation to this theread:

http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=23994&page=6&highlight=recommended+repairer

I have now had the car repaired.

Went to pick it up thismorning; repair is fine and done to a very high standard - 100% perfect. So happy with repair.

Not so happy about the scratch/chip/mark that is now on the drivers door

after inspecting the car before signing it out, i noticed the new damage. Guy in charge comes out with a form that had all the marks on my car noted down (little pic of car with crosses where dents are etc, u know the thing).

anyway, he had this mark down on his piece of paper. i didnt even know that they had done this form, i was never there when they did it & never signed anything to agree to it. he said they did it as soon as i dropped off the car in the car parking space where i left it. He said there is nothing they can do as its marked down as being there when i left it there.

anyway, where do i stand now? its basically my word against theirs. i cannot prove that it wasnt on the car when i left it, but it wasnt as its the drivers door and did a quick check around the car before i left it myself.

the damage is about an inch wide, the laquer/top paint come off and a blue paint mark is next to it; looks like something blue has scrapped it.

i took the car and signed for repairs being done to satisfaction, but wrote a note next to where i signed saying i was not happy about the damage & who i spoke to about it etc etc.

can anyone let me know where i stand now? anyone know of my legal rights?

i think that as i never agreed to/knew about the damage checklist then that makes that worthless in my view.

ie; middle of repair work being done, bang, whoops, add that to the checklist will u please!??

HELP!! manager is supposed to ring me today about it - doubt he will so i plan to ring later today....

thanks for your help!!


derek

 

[SilverSaloon]

anyone got any ideas/suggestions? i need to phone them soon to get it sorted

 

[Shude]

I am going to copy the agreement form that I got from the stealership last time I had a loaner and alter it so it's for my own car! From now on they will have to sign the same stupid form that they make me sign when we swap cars before a service etc!

Good luck with your claim, typically they deny all knowledge of any damage and rarely admit liability .

 

[SilverSaloon]

Good luck with your claim, typically they deny all knowledge of any damage and rarely admit liability .

do i have a leg to stand on legally? i cant see how their diagram proves anything since its not signed by me.

 

[Shude]

do i have a leg to stand on legally? i cant see how their diagram proves anything since its not signed by me.

You could easily argue that they have modified or even created this document after you left the car in their "care" and obviously after the damage was done.

If you've not signed it then it proves nothing does it?

 

[pammy]

Sounds like it could have been another customer did it with their car door or similar and the garage didnt know anything about it. Sadly looks like it happened inbetween you dropping it off and them doing their assessment.

I'm not sure there is anything you can do as you have no proof either way and we've all seen or experienceed the damage less careful people can do with their car doors

 

[C240Sport97]

you are right .. the bodyshop shop's form, as it was unsigned by you, means that the question of whether the damage was there when you dropped the car in is still wide open.

it's a question of proof .. and who a court would believe

fight it all the way, and threaten them with court action, and represent yourself .. the judge is more likely to believe you if you represent yourself

 

[scumbag]

when you complain you do so in good faith. this means that your word is taken. it will be up to the dealer to find a better counter argument that suggests the chip wasnt done by them. Bear in mind however, another customer could have parked next to you, done it, and left. so it may have happened on their premises but it may not have ben them.

ask for CCTV footage if they have it. they may not so check. You will look a bit daft asking for something they dont use!!

the fact they produced a form you havnt seen, nor signed rings bells for me. Surely they would want you to agree. otherwise it has no meaning. you could always knock up a reasonable looking form, that you filled in before hand, without the scratch and withouth a signature.

a decent customer service would provide a goodwill repair, at their expense. if you are unhappy with that, you will have to pay to fight it, and it is reasonable for a dealer to offer goodwill free of charge repair, and thats how a judge would see it.

get off to solictor and get found out.

 

[scumbag]

fight it all the way, and threaten them with court action, and represent yourself .. the judge is more likely to believe you if you represent yourself

no he isnt. he will be somewhat disapointed you have choosen not to gain professional help. the law is there to protect people and these people make a living at it. they expect you to use it. And, unless you are trained, the other side will have a trained person, and you want them to be on the defensive. this issue is about you leaving a perfect car with them and it coming back, having been under their ownership, in less than perfect condition*. they are insured for just such things. so they should repair it.

you need reports,pictures and other information. and YOU DO need professional help.

unless the dealer offers a repair. then you need to take it, coz thats all you will get.

*means in an acceptable condition without that scratch. not perfect as in showroom condition.

 

[SilverSaloon]

when you complain you do so in good faith. this means that your word is taken. it will be up to the dealer to find a better counter argument that suggests the chip wasnt done by them. Bear in mind however, another customer could have parked next to you, done it, and left. so it may have happened on their premises but it may not have ben them.

ask for CCTV footage if they have it. they may not so check. You will look a bit daft asking for something they dont use!!

the fact they produced a form you havnt seen, nor signed rings bells for me. Surely they would want you to agree. otherwise it has no meaning. you could always knock up a reasonable looking form, that you filled in before hand, without the scratch and withouth a signature.

a decent customer service would provide a goodwill repair, at their expense. if you are unhappy with that, you will have to pay to fight it, and it is reasonable for a dealer to offer goodwill free of charge repair, and thats how a judge would see it.

get off to solictor and get found out.

hi

thanks for your replies.... i really want to phone them to attempt to sort this out but want to know my rights beforehand....

all i know for certain is that the door wasnt damaged when i left it there - hire car i picked up was parked next to my car when i delivered my car - it was silver. i dropped off the keys, they made no mention of an inspection, i left in the hire car and thats the last i saw my car until today. at the moment i gave them the keys i see it as being in their care - its a blue paint mark so no blue car was parked next to it when i left it there before i handed over the keys, although again, i cannot prove this.

i am willing to pursue this, but i assume a repair to myself would be <£100 (cheaper for them as i assume they still have the left over paint, and their labour).... with solicitor fees etc it woudlnt be worth me taking it to court really, although i am happy to threaten this if it gets a result.

i will phone the manager thisafternoon.

 

[glojo]

First off

Nip back to the yard and see if there is a car matching the colour of the paint on your door.

Photograph the damage to your car and the very fresh unwanted paint. If you find a car in the yard with a similar colour, look on the doors etc for your paint!!! Photograph it.

Before asking about CCTV. Look to see if they have it. Then ask

Be adamant, firm, but polite. Do not back down, tell them your car was spotless before it came in.... You checked, you are 100% adamant and you merely want your car returned in the condition it was prior to the repair.

You can even show them a mock-up piece of paper similar to theirs Their paper is worthless unless you have signed it.

John

 

[grober]

I had this once. Blue colour I suspected was from a tool box trolley or maybe a lift/ramp mast. Have you had a look inside their service area?? The pre-service body inspection form seems to be only wheeled out if there's a problem. To be totally transparent the car should be inspected in your presence and the form dated, timed and signed by both parties prior to the service.Trouble was in my case I could not be 100% certain that the mark wasnt there before and from the garages point of view I could have just being spinning them a line. Just your word against theirs I'm afraid. If you are VERY sure of your ground as a negotiating tactic you could casually ask to see where your car was serviced and have a close look for any blue painted objects which might match the trace left on your car. Might just embarrass them enough to admit liability, but probably not. Depends also if you wish to use them again since this rightly or wrongly can lead to ill feeling on both sides.

 

[scumbag]

hi

thanks for your replies.... i really want to phone them to attempt to sort this out but want to know my rights beforehand....

i will phone the manager thisafternoon.

and as well as Johns above post. keep calm, do not offer, do not accuse.

"your car did not have that scratch on it, when you left it with them! end of. You would like to know what they are willing to do about it before you seek legal advice!"

keep it simple and that will either get you the car repaired for free, and maybes an appology. or a brush off.

If its a brush off, write everything down that happened, who you spoke to today, what you said, what the reply was, and take that to your legal advice. let them tell you the next step.

most legal eagles will give you a free chat first anyway, and if you are only going to earn them about £50 they will tell you what to do and ask you to come back if it doesnt have any enjoyment. they can write to the dealer, explaining what they are prepared to do to solve this, and the letter will be cheap. then it will be away to court.

CAB may have some advice too. but ring a solicitor from the phone book, as soons as you have come off the phone if the dealer is unhelpful.

but dont go stamping round and shouting at everyone, or demanding to talk to the top man. start with the service guy, use the pharse above, see what happens, then asked to be passed upwards if you are unsatisified. and dont let them ring you back, get them to put you through to someone who can help! stay on the phone. then you can say how long you were on it too.

The solution is for them to find. (It wasnt scratched when you left it, it will be unscratched when you are satisfied)

you only need your legal rights when you have exhausted your obvious routes of redress. No point telling the dealer what he will either know or ought to know.

 

[glojo]

i am willing to pursue this, but i assume a repair to myself would be <£100 (cheaper for them as i assume they still have the left over paint, and their labour).... with solicitor fees etc it woudlnt be worth me taking it to court really, although i am happy to threaten this if it gets a result.

i will phone the manager thisafternoon.

Just noticed that bit.

I personally would never threaten something that I was not prepared to do. In other words if I threaten to take legal advice and the opponent says please do!! Then you have to either put up, or shut up!!

There are a few legal advocates on this forum so I will merely so hello to them

What a fine bunch they are

John

 

[scumbag]

There are a few legal advocates on this forum so I will merely so hello to them

What a fine bunch they are

John

yes they are, have you noticed how they all have really decent shirts too, normally off of the backs of clients.

i really couldn't do that. too many peoople get emotionally charged over the smallest of things, and they have to filter it out. I went to be a magistrate, but it caused more irritation to me than not, listening to how people stole from catalogues just cause nobody visted them etc.

 

[glojo]

yI went to be a magistrate, but it caused more irritation to me than not, listening to how people stole from catalogues just cause nobody visted them etc.

I would love to be a magistrate. By crikey how I would LUV IT

I would though.

John

 

[scumbag]

I would love to be a magistrate. By crikey how I would LUV IT

I would though.

John

thats what i thought. I used to have the notion that they were all guilty, why else would you be in court? then you realise that its not guilt, its reason, and in some cases you have to make a descion that is something the people in front of you could make, but they want to be unreasonable. It's like them who get a car, it breaks down once in the first year, and they want a replacement car thats brand new, not of the same age. and whats worse is, the car has been fixed. if its been fixed, what more can you have beside maybe some dosh for a hire car etc. but some people cant accept this.

a lot is beacuse they get filled with nonsense from mates, or they belive what they read in the papers etc. but its crucifying when you see some peoples faces when they feel they have bee badly done too, but in actual fact, they havent.

gave up after a year. you go into to it too deep and want to become a judge etc. my mentality wasnt in it to do it right. it would have been unfair.

Mind you, Kill them all and let God sort them out. that works!!!

 

[madasafish]

Sorry but all this talk of legals is based on ignorance imo.
For a claim of this size - under £5,000 - you would go to The Small Claims Court where you CAN represent yourself.Indeed most claims are self representing.

What you would need for a successful claim is, however, some proof the scratch was not there before the car was delivered to them. After that it's in their care and their insurance pays. If you have no proof, it's your word against theirs. their form is a waste of space being unsigned.

So you can either:
1. ask them nicely to repair it foc - or make a contribution (stage 1: do it anyway)
2. Then if 1. fails tell them you will submit a Small Claim. They may at this point be more reasonable.
3.and if 2 fails, submit a claim.

If you appear resonable to the garage they may offer part settlement. if they do.. take it is my advice. In the lack of evidence you are unlikley to win.. although IF you can produce written statements from neighbours.. to the effect the car was undamaged 2-3 days before it went in and a possible cause of the scratch you may win..

 

[IanA2]

I don't think the SCC would be a sensible approach for a claim of < £100. In any event, having used them I think they are a bit of a lottery. Think about it, how many Legal Eagles wish to scale the giddy heights to hear.....da da de da small claims.......maybe they'd rather go to the High Court or the Royal Courts of Justice!

 

[Rory]

I read through this thread and was about to write exactly what madasafish wrote - all this talk of Judges etc is ridiculous.
This is a small claims court (SCC) issue. You can do it online. Get a quote off the original repairer anyway, to back up the value of your claim. (Don't tell them why you want it until it's in your hand!).
Write to them and ask that they repair it at their expense. If they don't then go down the SCC route. Companies often settle on the day of the case.