Dealing with Dealers

[glojo]

Rather than go off topic and take over Maff's excellent thread I thought I would sart a new topic on outlining our methods of trading or dealing with dealers!

doesnt work , they become familiar with you and try to make more money out of you ....

pays to shop about ... and to know the guy that owns the place

I can only go by my own experiences and will outline my last purchase experience.

Step one.
Contacted as many European importers as possible to get a quote for the EXACT specification 211 Avantgarde estate. (Including mud-flaps and carpets).

Contacted as many UK 'bulk' suppliers of Mercedes-Benz to get the same quote.

Everyone I contacted all came out with the same story. I could get a much better deal if I wanted a C, or ML class vehicle. The best quote was £3000 off of list price on a very high spec vehicle.

Step two
Go to dealership and we had a first meeting in my 'stretched limo' to discuss purchasing a new Mercedes-Benz, but we were not sure what model we wanted. The sales person then showed us numerous Mercedes-Benz and we then started having demonstrators for one week evaluation.

Step three
I handed the sales person the same specification list that I had obtained quotes for (minus mud-flaps and carpets) He worked out the price and then asked me if I had got a better price (we have been doing this for a number of cars ) I readily showed him the final figure of just the best quote.

Step four
Price offered by my dealership was £1000 dearer than the best price, but if I agreed to place a deposit then the dealer would give me the best figure shown in Glasses Guide for my specific car.

I stated that sounded reasonable, but I then wanted it in writing that I would always get a courtesy car whenever our vehicle had to go back to the dealership as per our usual agreement! Then as per usual, I wanted the car collected from my home and the courtesy car dropped off as per our usual agreement. This is always done in a friendly jovial atmosphere with each side crying that they were loosing money on the deal.

When this was agreed we were both pleased with how things had gone and the wife passed me the cheque book.

Ooops said I, how silly, I forgot to mention the mud-flaps and carpets. Oh we'll fit them when the vehicle has it's PDI says the sales person, okay I agree, but insist that the mudflaps and carpets are added to the list and that they are in the already negotiated price!!! When the sales person started crying, we even got him to add a reinforced heavy duty mat for the rear of the vehicle.

Now I am certain I could of bought the car cheaper elsewhere (£1000) and I might have saved a few more pounds whilst talking on the telephone, but I certainly could NOT of get a better trade in deal. The nearest was £3000 less!

I certainly could NOT get the after sales service. My car has been back to the dealer several times, for numerous upgrades, when a courtesy car was not available then they simply GAVE us a hire car, that they delivered and obviously they returned. One day they actually dropped off a dirty A-class courtesy car. I phoned the dealership, and a brand new ML350 was delivered within the hour.

Am I someone special??? Definitely NOT.

Am I an easy touch? Maybe.

Would I buy a new car from this dealership? Yes, but I would go through my usual procedure.

Would I recommend shopping around? Yes, I would recommend you shop around for the best deal, but then and only then would I go to my dealer.

Never go to your dealer first, that will just complicate the issue. Buying a new car should be a painless, enjoyable experience.

The car should have a full tank of fuel and a bouquet of flowers for the wife.

I always write to the managing director whenever I get good service, and I ask that my thanks are passed on to the relevant person, or department. Likewise though, when things are not right, a letter also gets posted.

I get frustrated when I read how dealers should treat everyone the same. I think perhaps folks are not living in the real world, if you bought a computer from the cheapest supplier possible, then went to your local shop would you expect the same service as the customer that bought the same product from that shop?

Take care,
John

 

[SportsCoupeRich]

John - this is a very true and well written post. I have said this many times in the past - both on this board and to people in 'reality'. My family have been using the same dealership for 13 years and I have never had a problem with their service. More often than not i feel they go out of their way to please me.

Give and take. Why is it that people should go to a MB garage. Expect to get 5k worth of options plus a great trade in price then slag the dealer off for not giving them a good deal or being rude. If i worked on small profit margins and commission you'd all p*ss me off too!!!!!!

 

[Alfie]

John,

Good post.

My experience is detailed here http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=131472&postcount=1

It certainly pays to shop around for the best price, particularly when buying new.

 

[glojo]

John,

Good post.

My experience is detailed here http://mbclub.co.uk/forums/showpost.php?p=131472&postcount=1

It certainly pays to shop around for the best price, particularly when buying new.

Hi Alfie,
It would be brilliant if you could actually copy and paste your previous post and then outline any experiences with the local dealer regarding courtesy car availability etc.

The best price does not always equate to the best service? Although I totally accept that it might.

John

Regards,
John

 

[Mr E]

Hi John,

Great post - shows exactly how setting expectations on BOTH sides is essential. You state exactly what you want from the dealer, they state what they need (usually cash!) and everyone remains happy.

Not wanting to hijack your thread (and I know what your view is on this, I think) but I really hate the term "stealership", whoever it's applied too. I'm sure that most dealer staff think that some of us are complete a**$^les when whinging about the cost of labour and parts, or that they won't do a warrenty repair when we haven't complied with the requirements.

I've had dealings with 3 MB dealers on a personal level - two were/are fantastic, one not so good. A mate tries to screw every last penny out of them and - surprise - he gets treated quite poorly. I told him to take up driving his transit again........but he was amazed when I wandered in on a wet Saturday afternoon (leaving the wives to go shopping), having no intention of buying a car, yet they know who I am, offer me a coffee, let the kids whizz around on the little electric cars. One morning, waiting for a little on-the-spot job on the car, the dealer principle was showing my 10-year old how to putt.

Perhaps sometimes the fault lies as much with us as with the dealers? I know sometimes that they do really **** things up, but the polite, firm response always, I find, work much better then ranting and threatening with the press, etc......

 

[GregE240]

Good post John.

1) My rust warranty repair issue: dealt with by a Mercedes dealer in Birmingham.

Took the car initially to look at NSF wing rust, and rust around boot lid lock.

They examined it at first and said no verbally.

After consulting the forum, I went back and asked them to submit a proper claim. They came back two weeks later after looking at it and writing down the damage that it was down to wear and tear. I refused this, stating that rusting from underneath the paint was simply not wear and tear. They shrugged.

Phoned DCUK customer services, and complained bitterly. Explained the issues. Explained the dealers attitude. Got asked what I wanted to satisfy my claim - I said a new front wing and a new bootlid. And a courtesy car.

About 6 weeks later got a call from said dealer asking when would it be convenient for me to bring the car in. Car went in for 5 working days, work complete to my utter satisfaction. A Class courtesy car provided FOC for the duration.

2) Buying my E240: Went to a Merc dealer in Solihull. Wasn't treated with any amount of respect at all. Sales person very stand-offish. Wasn't prepared to do anything for me, basically said, this is our stock, take it or leave it. Would not scour entire network. Eventually found (on my own) my ideal car over at MB Shrewsbury. Phoned sales person. Said I could only come over on that Sunday, but the dealer was closed. Sales person opened the showroom especially. Drove my E240, a C230K and also an SLK230K for the sheer hell of it. Treated with utter respect. Sales person could not do enough. Would even consider buying again from them if they weren't so damn far away (160 mile round trip).

So in summary: varied!

Cheers,
Greg

 

[jgevers]

Hi John,

I think that most dealers are able to provide decent customer service from their sales department. However, you might find that some dealerships have a few people in their sales depts that 'can't be bothered'. So I would think it is a question of getting the right sales person that you can communicate with properly. Basic customers service shortcomings like having to wait forever for a sales person or not getting the promised call back will most likely be a problem on that day, with that particular sales person and will not be a true reflection of the dealership's sales dept.

With service and parts departments I think there is a huge difference both in pricing and competence. Unfortunately, being a qualified MB technician doesn't nessesarily mean that a good job will be done. A qualification is only the basic knowledge. Experience and drive for knowledge are other attributes a good technician needs.

Unfortunatly technician's salaries in most franchised dealers are based on a small basic and a productivity based bonus. It is very difficult for a dealer technician to spend that extra bit of time to do the job really well because it directly affects his/her earnings. As the salaries bear no relation to the hourly rate charged by the dealer, the drive for bonus is often placed before the drive for quality.

I do believe that by communicating effectively with your dealership will give the right result.

I can't believe I writing this, as an independent garage owner/dignostic technician????

regards,

Job

 

[glojo]

Not wanting to hijack your thread (and I know what your view is on this, I think) but I really hate the term "stealership", whoever it's applied too. I'm sure that most dealer staff think that some of us are complete a**$^les when whinging about the cost of labour and parts, or that they won't do a warrenty repair when we haven't complied with the requirements.....

Unaccustomed as I am on the finer arts of hijacking.........

Your contributions are always more than welcome. As usual I totally agree
with your points. The first time we buy a car from the dealer we are in fact setting the ground rules for all future visits.

I think what is a great, great shame, and a very backward step, is the new super sized dealerships. I am fortunate that most of the staff from our local dealership transferred up to this large new 'supermarket' type franchise. Whenever I telephone, be it the stores, workshop, or sales, people at the other end still know us, and we have a quick chat before getting down to the reason of the call.

Sales person could not do enough. Would even consider buying again from them if they weren't so damn far away (160 mile round trip). So in summary: varied!

Hi Greg,
A very valid and fair point. I would be silly to say that ALL sales staff are perfect and it is the fault of the customer if the sale does not go right.


Nice informative posts from everyone,

I suppose I should have said that developing a relationship is a must, treat everyone in the manner you would like to be treated and you quickly earn their respect. If the person you first speak to, is someone that you distrust, don't like... then walk away. We are all human and sometimes for whatever reason we simply cannot develop a liking or trust for someone.


Thanks,
John

A warm sunny lunchtime in Torquay

 

[mark.t]

dealers

considered buying a ML 270 cdi...so off I went to Mercedes Benz Manchester.....looked at ML's they had, the one I fancied was around £27,000 quid, salesman went to get keys opened it up I got in and looked around the cabin..first thing I noticed was a funny smell like off milk...then began to look at the interior of the car,I just sat in silence while this bloke waffled on a bout throwing in a new grill and how they could retro fit comand, it was scruffy with deep scratches in the trim and stains on the dash,I drew this to his attention and he just erm'ed,so looked at another and another .....they either had dents scuffs or hard warn interiors...I said how the hell are you supposed to sell these, he just shrugged and asked if i was being a bit picky...well i ask you...guess what no sale.....i am also in the 3 + club....for servicing and free mot's but the lady service assistant at MB Manchester made it very plain the i was getting a free mot,when i explained that before any work be carrid out they inform me....the bloody cheek

 

[peterchurch]

Give and take. Why is it that people should go to a MB garage. Expect to get 5k worth of options plus a great trade in price then slag the dealer off for not giving them a good deal or being rude. If i worked on small profit margins and commission you'd all p*ss me off too!!!!!!

Why not? Its the equal and oppsosite reaction to being screwed...
While the finance wiz was balling his eyes out over trade in values I pointed out that they had an older car with 10K MORE miles on the clock and no panoramic roof or nappa leather on for £26K (and it was ruff as hell to look at !). Given that my car would be coming in spotless, with only the wheels to be refurbed and a crack in the plastic windows to sort, the asking price is more than appropriate... At that point I think he figured that he was in trouble

To be fair buying a cabrio in summer from a dealership is a mugs game.
Our local has already sold 8 SLs this month, (indeed I lost one while I was test driving it!!) They can turn round an SL in about a week so expecting lightning deals is off the cards.

That said if a deal is offered then I expect it to stick without having to get a dealer to write it down (especially in a market where cars move out fast)

I was watching the other customers in the showroom, and its easy to see how the disadvantage has grown up. They don't care if you take a car they certainly don't care if you pull out on the deal, because in a minute there will be another punter in the game in your place.

The modus operandi of the salesman to the unwary

First off the salesman is skilled and trained in mind bending, and pushing buttons watch them carefuly and you will see things don't add up in body language etc... techniques like body mirroring and positive assertions help them get you thinking that you have alot in common and forms a bond (Beware! It is happening and you need to play the game too but make sure you catch the fact that its going on!)

1) Step 1 smiles and get you in a car and out for a drive (gets the punter hooked gets at the emotional strings, then the rest is easy)

2) Make noises about good deals and the good stuff they can offer
(get the punter engaged in the fact that they are helping him/her, then they will continue to believe and to self reinforce this while the deal progresses) Jedi mind tricks do work !!!

3) Ofer range of generally overpriced useless add ons (diamondbright, Gap etc)

4) Make sure that the usless products are on the invoice then the salesman can float out the picture, where you are left in a meeting with the finance chap...

A note to the unwise: Your deals/ sweetners have now gone adrift and you are left with nothing being shown except very low trade in figures and under valued balloon payments that give the dealers the power to screw you on the trade in at the other end meanwhile figures are fiddled to make a bad deal look good...

for PCP etc balloons should reflect a fair and correct price of the car. All the BS about giving you equity is just that B*S*

Get the car signed... NEXT!

I can see how many people that don't have the eye on the ball would get stuffed by this process.

I am the first to admit that you can't expect to get a car for less than they bought it for. Well, except I did with our Honda because there were bonuses around for selling them and we talked rational figures and I did for the MB because the market was flat and the guy was desparate to move three cars worth of capital etc. But if you look at a car and they say "no margin in this one", while they try and work you for a 10K margin on your car, then you know that there is at least 5K to haggle for and if you miss that cash then to them, you are just another punter on the way through...

 

[Mr E]

So what's the problem here? The dealer is running a business, and is there to primarily make money.

Now part of that is ensuring repeat business, either through sales or servicing. Most franchise dealers don't have huge unit turnover, so have to make more per unit than, say, a car supermarket who have to turn over at least 10 times as many cars to make it viable.

I "play games" in order to maintain (or increase) profit margin in my work - change orders, scope control, etc, etc. It's part of the game I'm in. And it's no different to the guy selling you a car. He's not there to do you a favour, he's there to make money. Now you can roll over and get fleeced, and then feel really upset. Or you can screw him and p*&s him off, feel really good and suffer afterwards.

Surely the best thing is to find the balance - a price that is fair to both parties that ensures that the current (and future) experience will be to the best benefit of both. If you can't get what you want, either party should back away from the deal.

You'd be surprised how much the average dealership costs to run - not that I'm on the dealer side, but would you run a business where you couldn't even cover your overheads?

BTW, completely agree with Glojo's comment re the "supermarkets" that MB has set up. I remember when this was being muted a few years back and noting that the business model stacked up really well, but no-one had costed what the impact to the brand would be in the UK market..........

 

[peterchurch]

So what's the problem here? The dealer is running a business, and is there to primarily make money.

Now part of that is ensuring repeat business, either through sales or servicing. Most franchise dealers don't have huge unit turnover, so have to make more per unit than, say, a car supermarket who have to turn over at least 10 times as many cars to make it viable.

I "play games" in order to maintain (or increase) profit margin in my work - change orders, scope control, etc, etc. It's part of the game I'm in. And it's no different to the guy selling you a car. He's not there to do you a favour, he's there to make money. Now you can roll over and get fleeced, and then feel really upset. Or you can screw him and p*&s him off, feel really good and suffer afterwards.

Surely the best thing is to find the balance - a price that is fair to both parties that ensures that the current (and future) experience will be to the best benefit of both. If you can't get what you want, either party should back away from the deal.

You'd be surprised how much the average dealership costs to run - not that I'm on the dealer side, but would you run a business where you couldn't even cover your overheads?

BTW, completely agree with Glojo's comment re the "supermarkets" that MB has set up. I remember when this was being muted a few years back and noting that the business model stacked up really well, but no-one had costed what the impact to the brand would be in the UK market..........

Bingo ! nail on the head A deal thats fair to both parties

To be honest the best place not to buy your MB is the dealer that you wish to use to use for servicing. Keep that business separate. The service side of the company hates the sales guys anyway, so they don't care where the car came from. All they know is they get paid by MB for the warranty work and you for the servicing. Each one of the new ramps at the Bath super center needs to pay £ 250,000 into the business to cover their space. (each year!)