Definative explination.... Pull left

[br0ke]

A then I'd have an even worse pull to the right when abroad surely?

Is it true that a car that pulls to the left in the UK would invariably pull to the right given similar cambered roads abroad?

 

[wheels-inmotion]

Hey Tony, I don't think this is the kind of club good traders and good objective advice is thrown out of. At the end of the day I'm only telling everyone the facts of what my problem was, how it is now and how it was fixed. Only if I could talk about my dealer in the same way (would suggest some dealership principals join this club!).

Thanks for the kind words. In truth I am ever respectful of those who do trade and the club rules, I hope that those who wim also know I don't need to trade, we are booked solid. Nevertheless I would be a liar if I suggested business has not been generated from the club so it's only fitting I offer members information like this thread.

I totally agree it would be wise to have an official interaction by MB to this club but I don't think it would happen on this topic.

Unofficially some MB dealers are paying some customers bills that come to us. This is simply because they have to respect the OEM datum, we don't.

 

[Rory]

Is it true that a car that pulls to the left in the UK would invariably pull to the right given similar cambered roads abroad?

Depends what's causing to to pull, I guess.

My W203 certainly goes to the right when I'm on the "wrong" side of the road in motorway contraflows.

I had it checked by Tony and he said it was actually pretty well aligned. He found the toe-in on the fronts was far too much, but it was equal, as if it had been set like that on purpose. With that corrected, the car handles with more certainty on twisty roads and bends.

The issue I have is that, if left to its own devices, mine rolls on more and more lock, rather than just steadily gently drifting. I gather this is a trait on some facelift W203's.

 

[Mactech]

I think it's great to have someone with experience and common sense taking time to explain what, to most, seems a really mysterious problem
Thank you!
I fully understand the Mercedes (and German?) way of setting things up perfectly, but as Tony has explained our roads are just not perfect.
I've spent many years setting up race cars with a massive variety of methods from string around some oil cans (!) to the very latest all singing and dancing Hunter rigs using specially machined set up wheels.
Race cars are reasonably rigid compared to road cars, but still move considerably under load. By comparison all road cars (including Mercedes!) are like jelly!
The shell, the suspension and bushes, the wheels and of course the tyres are all very elastic in absolute terms so as soon as you load the car in any direction it all changes
No real surprise that our cars don't do exactly what we want, but good to hear some sensible solutions to compensate for the imperfections in our roads and cars.

 

[kamalpatel12448]

Tony, you respected the MB target data for me and mine is just perfect I say.
Kamal

 

[wheels-inmotion]

I think it's great to have someone with experience and common sense taking time to explain what, to most, seems a really mysterious problem
Thank you!
I fully understand the Mercedes (and German?) way of setting things up perfectly, but as Tony has explained our roads are just not perfect.
I've spent many years setting up race cars with a massive variety of methods from string around some oil cans (!) to the very latest all singing and dancing Hunter rigs using specially machined set up wheels.
Race cars are reasonably rigid compared to road cars, but still move considerably under load. By comparison all road cars (including Mercedes!) are like jelly!
The shell, the suspension and bushes, the wheels and of course the tyres are all very elastic in absolute terms so as soon as you load the car in any direction it all changes
No real surprise that our cars don't do exactly what we want, but good to hear some sensible solutions to compensate for the imperfections in our roads and cars.

Your method of calibration i couldn't do, and i really respect how the use of string and serious gray matter can allow a good calibration.

 

[Burger]

I've always understood tram-lining to be when the wheels are following imperfections in the road surface, such as being stuck in a tram rail hence the name. Am I wrong?

If I am on a road, perfectly smooth, no imperfections, where the camber of the road is to the left, many cars I've driven including my current SL will attempt to steer to the left. I would describe that as a pull, not tram-lining. Conversely if the camber of the road is to the right the car will attempt to steer/pull to the right. Are these not the correct definitions/explanations of a pull and tram-lining?

If they are, then is there something wrong with my current and previous cars which have all displayed the same behaviour and can this be corrected to only leave me with drifting irrespective of a left or right camber in the road?

Drifting in my mind would be when the whole car effectively 'slides' across the lane while the steering wheel and geometry remains straight ahead?

Please believe me, I fully recognise and respect your knowledge and expertise in these areas, but I'd like to know we're talking about the same things.

Regards,

Sorry for the repeat but I'm thinking this post was missed by WIM and I'd really appreciate confirmation and an opinion on whether the pull, caused by the camber of the road, both left and right, can be corrected.

Thanks,

 

[Sp!ke]

Both tramlining and pulling left threads now stickied.

 

[wheels-inmotion]

Both tramlining and pulling left threads now stickied.

Thank you.

Members will have to forgive my grammar construction, it's a hard topic to explain "chassis dynamics" but a distilled version effects many in our world.

A need to grasp just a little bit might be of value to members, plus i'm on the list so any questions are welcomed.

 

[kamalpatel12448]

Folks, I want to share some reality with you...I told the dealer (MB of Stevenage) alignment on my car was off, they said it was fine - when they gave me the report and it proved my point with various settings out of MB specified tolerance! They tried again - wasted half a day of my time then told me they couldn't fix it. I wasn't really going to stand for that as if it was a fault they need to fix it under warranty and it didn't drive right...so WIM fixed the alignment in 40 minutes and I put all this to the dealer principal and they are going to give me a good will payment for WIM alignment charge. Thanks WIM!

 

[Gopsy]

Where is WIM based? I think coz I'm a newbie I can't pm him direct!?!

 

[kamalpatel12448]

UK Tyres Online Cheap Car Tyres Shop | Blackboots Wheels in Motion they are in Chesham, worth the trip if you have issues.

 

[John]

Just out of interest - I'd avoid 'Just Tyres' towards the other side of the town - they are a bunch of twuntards in my experience.

 

[wheels-inmotion]

Just out of interest - I'd avoid 'Just Tyres' towards the other side of the town - they are a bunch of twuntards in my experience.

I'm sure Just Tyres have some good operational centres but you have had the misfortune with a bad one.

In truth i have about sixty partner centres around the Uk and i would only allow two to resolve the MB pulling issue. This must read really odd "why associate" with partner centres if they cannot do the job. Well in reply the MB front adjuster bolts are very hard to fit, even MB UK G get it wrong.

As you may have read in the initial post there's a balance of geometric angles that must be understood before any bolts are fitted, overkill is not good for the customer nor is incorrectly fitted adjuster bolts.

 

[MJH]

In truth i have about sixty partner centres around the Uk and i would only allow two to resolve the MB pulling issue. This must read really odd "why associate" with partner centres if they cannot do the job. Well in reply the MB front adjuster bolts are very hard to fit, even MB UK G get it wrong.

As you may have read in the initial post there's a balance of geometric angles that must be understood before any bolts are fitted, overkill is not good for the customer nor is incorrectly fitted adjuster bolts.

Are either of these two partners anywhere near my neck of the woods in Shropshire ? Mine pulls left and normal wheel alignments haven't helped It really frustrates me when even my 40 year old landrover that I tracked with a tape measure, runs straight and true on it's old Michelin XCL tyres !

Cheers, Mike

 

[wheels-inmotion]

No....?

I'm about to drop 40 or so centres from my web list!

Operational expectations at an elevated level are minimal requirements in my opinion and these 40 or so centres are not up to the challenge.

I train the staff and only that person is allowed to serve my belayed customer, if the approved member moves on i need to know, seemingly this is not the case and since the entrance holder wants to retain their position in the network i'm not informed!

I've tried this network and it's possible providing poxy fast-fit, fits into an expected minimal requirement, i mean for FFS isn't this their industry? Seemingly not?

So moving on i have decided to expand and carry like minded companies along the way, defining everything my way?

Your the first to read it but i'm about to open a three million pound centre in Milton Keynes and then another in Manchester, Birmingham and Ireland.

Anyone up for an open day meet?

 

[whitenemesis]

Nice one Tony!

Count me in

 

[kamalpatel12448]

No....?

I'm about to drop 40 or so centres from my web list!

Operational expectations at an elevated level are minimal requirements in my opinion and these 40 or so centres are not up to the challenge.

I train the staff and only that person is allowed to serve my belayed customer, if the approved member moves on i need to know, seemingly this is not the case and since the entrance holder wants to retain their position in the network i'm not informed!

I've tried this network and it's possible providing poxy fast-fit, fits into an expected minimal requirement, i mean for FFS isn't this their industry? Seemingly not?

So moving on i have decided to expand and carry like minded companies along the way, defining everything my way?

Your the first to read it but i'm about to open a three million pound centre in Milton Keynes and then another in Manchester, Birmingham and Ireland.

Anyone up for an open day meet?

Hi Tony, nice to see you posting on the forums . Are you suggesting hosting a meet? If so, suggest kicking off a new thread to get more attention. Hope to see you soon.
Kamal

 

[MJH]

No....?

Bugger !

Looks like it'll have to wait till next time I'm down south then. I drop down to London every few months with work so could do a detour via Chesham.

I'll get the bolts ordered and give you a shout next time I'm going to be heading down that way so we can book it in

 

[Faceliftw211]

All due respect to you Tony. Great to hear of a successful and expanding business in these testing times. Your chaps sorted my W211 over a year ago with the help of a couple bolts and it tracks beautifully still.