Disgusting driving by the Police

[KillerHERTZ]

I never bother to post stories like this, but last Wednesday afternoon I was out driving with my Mother along the A429 in the Cottswolds doing around 50-55 (its a 60Mph road with speed camera) when all of a sudden I spot a white BMW 3 Series Estate Police car tailgating me.

Of course my gut reaction is to slow down to around 40Mph thinking the worse, this made no difference as he stayed the same distance for a good few miles. - My understanding is that if they want you to get out of the way or stop they ether flash their headlights/and or put the blue lights on without the sirens? Nothing happened apart from tailgating me.

After a mile or so, as soon as we past the Truveo Speed camera he puts his footdown and over takes me (fair enough). He then contiunes to speed up, id say around 80Mph, swings over and drives on the other side of the road when there is nothing to overtake, including blind hill crests.

Futher up the road he begins to slow down until he approaches a lorry, swings out and overtakes just it as an oncoming car is flashing his lights/beeping horn. The Police car must have missed this oncoming car by metres - and what for? My Mum said it looked like the Police car had been stolen!

After 20mins on so, we caught up with the Police car doing normal speeds, I didnt manage to get his numberplate - would there be any point anyway?

- Shouldnt Police cars should only break the speed limit when in an emergency - have lights on?
- Overtaking on blind hills, extended periods on the wrong side of the road?

The A429 from Stow is a terrible road, early this year 7 people were killed on a head on crash.

Rant over.

 

[Carrotchomper]

It doesn't really sound brilliant. Yes there would be a point getting the numberplate and putting a report in if you felt that aggrieved by the standards. If it can be explained it will...

I would take very slight issue with some of the points there though. Advanced driving teaches students to use the whole of the road for speed and view. Your view wasn't necessarily what the police driver could see, and using the whole road IS acceptable where safe.

The overtake may have been marginal, or the other car may have thought it such. One of the most terrifying aspects of the response driving course is learning limits in overtaking, and what constitutes a reasonable gap. To bystanders/passengers this may appear fag packet thin... Hence the flashing.

Before anyone pops up, I'm not blindly defending here, since the whole incident does sound rather poor, however some points of Advanced Driving just don't look good to bystanders.... But yes, if it irks you make a report.

 

[KillerHERTZ]

You do make a good point as I can only comment on what I could see from the distance I was and advance driving does teach you to posistion yourself way in advance, but blind hills?, why would the driver of the oncoming car feel he need to both flash and hold down the horn?
Are the Police allowed to drive at that speed without having ether the lights on or the siren?

HERE is the story of the 7 killed on that road people always overtaking around blind corners.

 

[Carrotchomper]

Are the Police allowed to drive at that speed without having ether the lights on or the siren?.

Yes.

The lights or siren are immaterial to the exemption from speed limits, however the proviso is that the vehicle must be being used for "Police purposes" and, were that vehicle to obey the limits, that use would be "Hindered".

I will not comment on the plethora of reasons the vehicle might have been speeding, nor speculate whether this was simply a jolly.

 

[evdok]

Advanced?! Try telling that to the on coming vehicle he scared the s*** out of.

 

[Colin_b]

Yes.

The lights or siren are immaterial to the exemption from speed limits, however the proviso is that the vehicle must be being used for "Police purposes" and, were that vehicle to obey the limits, that use would be "Hindered".

I will not comment on the plethora of reasons the vehicle might have been speeding, nor speculate whether this was simply a jolly.

Can I say it is good that the emergency services seem to be using sirens, it appears, rather more selectively.

 

[PXW]

Yes.

The lights or siren are immaterial to the exemption from speed limits, however the proviso is that the vehicle must be being used for "Police purposes" and, were that vehicle to obey the limits, that use would be "Hindered".

I will not comment on the plethora of reasons the vehicle might have been speeding, nor speculate whether this was simply a jolly.

This is one of those 'true but pretty unhelpful' things...the general public awareness is that if there is an emergency then you get out of the way of police etc vehicles - such emergency signalled to road users by use of lights and/or sirens. So we are all taught. Therefore when a police car does perform, how shall I say, dramatic driving without such signals it just servss to alienate the force still further. I saw one the other day - driving at 30 in a 30 limit, being followed by a friend, along a residential road where you wouldn't dream of overtaking. A police car blasted past us both, speeded off and then took a left at the next junction without signalling. Now - if he was on call, why not use lights etc., for the safety of all road users? Or does safety not count if you are in a pinstriped car? I perosnally think that the police should only be allowed to break speed limits etc under blues and twos, with the sole exception that they can be turned off when approaching the scene they are racing to if that might otherwise alert the objects of their attention.

 

[mercmanuk]

report the tosser ,when a complaint is made by the public they then check the tracker to confirm speeds and general truth of the complaint

 

[UnMarked]

report the tosser ,when a complaint is made by the public they then check the tracker to confirm speeds and general truth of the complaint

Why don't you climb down off that huge fence and decide where you stand on this issue? . Read post #2 and perhaps you could look at it more objectively.

The OP should report it if they feel aggrieved by the driving; even with no registration number it should be possible to trace the vehicle and driver (what identified the vehicle as police? - other agencies do use these type of vehicles for training) due to its type and location.

My feeling is it could well be driver-training of some kind (note the word training).

BTW. I do not condone 'bad' driving by any person or organistation and believe any driving that falls below the accepted standards should be challenged - and if necessary dealt with through the courts.

 

[timskemp]

After a mile or so, as soon as we past the Truveo Speed camera he puts his footdown and over takes me (fair enough). He then contiunes to speed up, id say around 80Mph, swings over and drives on the other side of the road when there is nothing to overtake, including blind hill crests.

The A429 from Stow is a terrible road, early this year 7 people were killed on a head on crash.

It'll be a driver familiarising himself with his equipment (a valid excuse for appearing to be driving while high) or driver training. Vehicles are tracked, accidents these days result in compensation claims and court cases. I drive regularly on a police training route and have been occasionally surprised by being overtaken by V6 mondeos and Volvo S60s (and the odd Skoda Octavia) on narrow roads when I'm driving in an enthusiastic manner.

7 people killed in a head on crash is one accident - though I feel for the families concerned I also believe that driving involves risk, and that collisions will happen due to accident or negligence and we must accept that as part of using the road. It's why most of us high-mile drivers will use motorways wherever possible. One acccident does not a dangerous road make - it ranks as low-medium or medium risk depending on the section of A429.

 

[UnMarked]

.......a 60Mph road with speed camera.....
After a mile or so, as soon as we past the Truveo Speed camera he puts his footdown and over takes me

If the car was on an official driving course of any description the driver would have been exempt from prosecution for exceeding the speed limit -but only where the national speed limit is in force (I'm assuming this stretch of road qualifies as OP states 60mph?).
If the driver had activated the speed camera and an NIP had been issued it would have been dropped due to the exemption. If this is the case I cannot see why the driver slowed for the camera? I have never known this on standard, advanced or other police driving courses.
Maybe it wasn't a police vehicle on an approved course. Maybe it wasn't a police vehicle? Just a couple of thoughts.

 

[Ratz]

Is it only me that's slightly concerned by the fact that these 'advanced drivers' practice their techniques on real roads with real people? At least with guns or similar they are used in a heavily controlled environment first.

How the hell does the police driver know how the oncoming traffic is going to react with no lights or siren going? I am sorry but I don't want a phone call telling me that my wife & son were acceptable collateral on a police training exercise.

 

[Dieselman]

Advanced?! Try telling that to the on coming vehicle he scared the s*** out of.

But was that justified.? I've seen people flash and use their horns when there was miles of room and no chance of a collision.

 

[UnMarked]

Is it only me that's slightly concerned by the fact that these 'advanced drivers' practice their techniques on real roads with real people? At least with guns or similar they are used in a heavily controlled environment first.

How the hell does the police driver know how the oncoming traffic is going to react with no lights or siren going? I am sorry but I don't want a phone call telling me that my wife & son were acceptable collateral on a police training exercise.

So what would you suggest the police do to train their drivers to the standard needed to police the UK's overcrowded roads?

 

[Dieselman]

So what would you suggest the police do to train their drivers to the standard needed to police the UK's overcrowded roads?

This should do.....

 

[timskemp]

Is it only me that's slightly concerned by the fact that these 'advanced drivers' practice their techniques on real roads with real people? At least with guns or similar they are used in a heavily controlled environment first.

How the hell does the police driver know how the oncoming traffic is going to react with no lights or siren going? I am sorry but I don't want a phone call telling me that my wife & son were acceptable collateral on a police training exercise.

You're not the only one that's slightly concerned, we all are, and incidents like the above, and the 160mph vectra, and similar ones where the driver is not on an official training sortie where someone can be ahead doing a reccie or whatever shouldn't really be allowed, but they are. But this is real life and the police need to be able to get to incidents quickly on real roads with real traffic.

I don't think it should be allowed without supervision, I also think every minute of police driving should be CCTV covered, more crimes would be detected that way (they could ANPR everything offline for insurance dodgers and would have even more data available for finding vehicles involved in crimes or stolen).

 

[Dragon]

What can you do, they are the laws, that why the public hated them so much. They don't earn their respect.

 

[Ratz]

So what would you suggest the police do to train their drivers to the standard needed to police the UK's overcrowded roads?

The armed forces manage to train for combat without actually invading anywhere.

Question is whether the benefits outweigh the risks, if it were my family on the other side of the road then frankly no!

 

[UnMarked]

You're not the only one that's slightly concerned, we all are, and incidents like the above, and the 160mph vectra, and similar ones where the driver is not on an official training sortie where someone can be ahead doing a reccie or whatever shouldn't really be allowed, but they are. But this is real life and the police need to be able to get to incidents quickly on real roads with real traffic.

I don't think it should be allowed without supervision, I also think every minute of police driving should be CCTV covered, more crimes would be detected that way (they could ANPR everything offline for insurance dodgers and would have even more data available for finding vehicles involved in crimes or stolen).

There are always cases (like the idiot in the Vectra) that get into the media and create a storm. This then makes the police driver's job more and more difficult and, whether rightly of wrongly, they then come under closer public scrutiny. Remember in most cases the police are in highly visible and clearly marked vehicles for obvious reasons. It's easy to make a mistake when you're driving as I'm sure we all recognise. It's very, very easy to be seen when you're in a fully marked-up V70

Our force is currently trialling a unit that automatically records to a secure hard-drive whenever the vehicle goes above a certain speed and/or if the blues & 2's are switched on. This, added to recording tracking of the vehicles' whereabouts at all times, means we are watched to a massive extent whenever we patrol.

Finally, in the past 2 years (since I started in my current role) apart from collateral damage during pursuits (with the subject vehicle I may add!) no-one in our section has had a collision with another road-user: 10 in our section driving an average of 100 miles each shift on average 20 days each month. Specialist training and practice achieves this - not luck.

 

[UnMarked]

What can you do, they are the laws, that why the public hated them so much. They don't earn their respect.

I think 'hate' is stretching it a little- at least where reasonable and objective road users are concerned. Respect? Some show it, some do not-that's life.

The armed forces manage to train for combat without actually invading anywhere.

I've tried to draw parallels here but sorry I cannot for the life of me see how police driver training and our Armed Forces' training can be compared (and I speak from experience having served in the Forces for many years).

Question is whether the benefits outweigh the risks, if it were my family on the other side of the road then frankly no!

And I honestly see your concern, but driver training can only reduce the likelihood of innocent members of the public coming to harm during incidents. I cannot see how police drivers could be trained other than on our roads? The thought of having no real-life training then going off in pursuit of a car-thief or similar makes me shudder.