Disgusting driving by the Police

[Ratz]

There are always cases (like the idiot in the Vectra) that get into the media and create a storm. This then makes the police driver's job more and more difficult and, whether rightly of wrongly, they then come under closer public scrutiny. Remember in most cases the police are in highly visible and clearly marked vehicles for obvious reasons. It's easy to make a mistake when you're driving as I'm sure we all recognise. It's very, very easy to be seen when you're in a fully marked-up V70

Our force is currently trialling a unit that automatically records to a secure hard-drive whenever the vehicle goes above a certain speed and/or if the blues & 2's are switched on. This, added to recording tracking of the vehicles' whereabouts at all times, means we are watched to a massive extent whenever we patrol.

Finally, in the past 2 years (since I started in my current role) apart from collateral damage during pursuits (with the subject vehicle I may add!) no-one in our section has had a collision with another road-user: 10 in our section driving an average of 100 miles each shift on average 20 days each month. Specialist training and practice achieves this - not luck.

Thanks for the info, I accept that the police are very often victims of hype and misreporting(and indeed my perceptions are likely influenced by the same). Are there any statistics beyond your unit as to the number of 'incidents' involving police vehicles on training exercises?

 

[Dieselman]

Thanks for the info, I accept that the police are very often victims of hype and misreporting

Bingo...

Sensationalism at it's worst. If the media would present fact as opposed to scare-mongering hyped up, often fictitious or embellished, stories, I don't think we would have these discussions either on here or in general.

The problem is that the public like these stories as it makes them feel justified when moaning.

 

[UnMarked]

Thanks for the info, I accept that the police are very often victims of hype and misreporting(and indeed my perceptions are likely influenced by the same). Are there any statistics beyond your unit as to the number of 'incidents' involving police vehicles on training exercises?

I am not aware of any accurate figures - sorry....i'm sure there will be something, somewhere on the t'internet (or Telegraph/Mail websites)

I do know that some police officers (wrongly and embarrassingly at times) flout the law. I would always, without hesitation, recommend that if someone saw a police officer acting in an inappropriate way (whether in a vehicle or otherwise) they should then report it if they feel strongly enough about it. I know this then leads onto complaints against police etc and whether it's worth it blah blah and I'm not going down that road. However, what I will state (and i mean it with all honesty) is the vast majority of police officers and staff who i have come into contact with are conscientious and honest working people who lead ordinary lives outside the uniform. They're just like you and me.

 

[stevesey]

But was that justified.? I've seen people flash and use their horns when there was miles of room and no chance of a collision.

Ditto - only justified it you need to lift off/brake etc, some people seem to flash/"wave" etc even when no such adjustment is needed.

 

[st4]

Can this not be moved to our "other thread" Incompetent police. It keeps the moans and groans in one place...

 

[UnMarked]

Can this not be moved to our "other thread" Incompetent police. It keeps the moans and groans in one place...

I wonder how many members other than you would contribute to it on a regular basis in that case?

 

[st4]

I wonder how many members other than you would contribute to it on a regular basis in that case?

Quite a few judging by the looks of things

 

[UnMarked]

Quite a few judging by the looks of things

I think the 3 of you would have a whale of a time

 

[st4]

I think the 3 of you would have a whale of a time

and it could be confined to one place rather than polute other threads...

And yes, it would be good reading

 

[UnMarked]

and it could be confined to one place rather than polute other threads...

'polute' (sic).....you always seem to be in the middle of any effluent thrown in the direction of the police: you clearly care for the environment *** because you always recycle the same old rubbish

 

[raymont]

Are there different levels of police driver training and are there limits on the type of activity different levels of training permit? I recently had to brake very hard to avoid an escort size police car making an impossible overtake. If my 80 yr old mother had been driving there would have been an accident.

Is it worth high speed pursuits endangering members of the public for relatively (i.e. compared to violent crime) unimportant vehicle / traffic offences?

Agree flashing headlights of oncoming car is no indication of the safety of the overtake. Until recently rode a motorbike and was frequently flashed when passing other vehicles in total safety.

 

[raymont]

If I drive through, say, a 30 limit at 30 and a car catches me up or pulls away from me I’ll probably not take that much notice. If it’s a police car and is not obeying the limit I probably will notice and not be impressed. I frequently drive in the vicinity of a large police station and this happens all the time.

With the constant focus on speeding this is, at the least, extremely bad PR

Recently noticed two police cars parked on zig zags next to pedestrian crossing. This is an endorseable offence as it puts pedestrians at risk because they cannot see approaching cars and those cars cannot see them. Police cars are just as hard to see through as other vehicles.

I know police are human and make mistakes as we all do, but as upholders of the law it is essential that they are seen to comply with the law. If they don’t what chance do they have of respect?

 

[glojo]

I perosnally think that the police should only be allowed to break speed limits etc under blues and twos, with the sole exception that they can be turned off when approaching the scene they are racing to if that might otherwise alert the objects of their attention.

I personally STRONGLY disagree with you solely because these devices can be heard at such extreme distances. We might be talking miles???

A house is being burgled. At what distance can the audible warning be heard, especially at night!!

I could list any number of examples but some folks are so consistantly 'anti' I would be wasting both my time and theirs.

Blue lights, headlights, audible warning devices; they are all fitted to warn other road users of your presence. If the driver is not complying with any road markings, signs, speed limits etc, then they will be responsible for their actions and if they fail to have these fittings operating then they must be prepared to explain why.

John

 

[Uberwagon]

I'd echo the point made about being on the other side of the road.

I was doing more than double the posted limit and when the policeman asked me why I was on the wrong side of the road, he was happy with y reasoning and I was given a very lenient ride by the judges due to his statement.

Just because you don't understand the reasoning, doesn't make it a bad thing to do.

Dave!

 

[stevesey]

A house is being burgled. At what distance can the audible warning be heard, especially at night!!

At night the lights are easily seen they could turn the sirens off (as ambulances frequenty do).

Even having said that I do agree with John - if speeding the necessary devices MUST be used for the safety of other road users.

Of course, these days, the concept of police speeding to a burglary - is one that streches the imagination (at least according to what we read in the media - I may be being unfair).

 

[sweeney]

like deploying them immediately after collecting the shift's fish and chips.

can't have sarge's saveloy and chips going cold...

another true but sad story from the sweeneyfiles !

 

[PXW]

I personally STRONGLY disagree with you solely because these devices can be heard at such extreme distances. We might be talking miles???

A house is being burgled. At what distance can the audible warning be heard, especially at night!!

I could list any number of examples but some folks are so consistantly 'anti' I would be wasting both my time and theirs.

Blue lights, headlights, audible warning devices; they are all fitted to warn other road users of your presence. If the driver is not complying with any road markings, signs, speed limits etc, then they will be responsible for their actions and if they fail to have these fittings operating then they must be prepared to explain why.

John

John,

Not sure how you are arguing here - one the one hand you STRONGLY disagree with me, on the other you seem to agree that lights/sirens etc should be used. My post acknowledged the possibility that there might be an exception where the crims would be alerted. Turn the siren off but use the lights? Use thealternating headlamps/foglamps if the blues are too obvious? There are plenty of ways to alert other road users.

Breaking the speed limit etc is a privilege that society affords the police (for good reason), and the police would earn much more respect if their vehicles were always seen to be either within the law or properly alerting other road users. From other posts, it seems as if at least one police force is starting to use technology to get this right.

Peter

 

[glojo]

John,

Not sure how you are arguing here - one the one hand you STRONGLY disagree with me, on the other you seem to agree that lights/sirens etc should be used. My post acknowledged the possibility that there might be an exception where the crims would be alerted. Turn the siren off but use the lights? Use thealternating headlamps/foglamps if the blues are too obvious? There are plenty of ways to alert other road users.

Breaking the speed limit etc is a privilege that society affords the police (for good reason), and the police would earn much more respect if their vehicles were always seen to be either within the law or properly alerting other road users. From other posts, it seems as if at least one police force is starting to use technology to get this right.

Peter

Hi Peter,
There will ALWAYS be a time when drawing attention to yourself is not practical, but getting to the destination as quickly as is safely possible is a must. I'm sorry but sometimes having the blue lights on or the sirens is a very strict no, no. Hence my strongly disagreeing. In life I have found nothing will always be black and white!

It is just not practical to put adverts in the local paper to explain why
a certain vehicle, at a certain time, at a certain location, failed to have their siren sounding, blue lights flashing whilst speeding, going through red traffic lights or whatever. The onus however will always be on the driver of this vehicle to ensure they do not endanger other road users.

I have seen drivers deliberately obstruct fire engines, police vehicles and even ambulances which are attending emergencies with ALL their audible devices working. I have also seen pedestrians DELIBERATELY step-out onto a zebra crossing directly in the path of these vehicles even though those sirens are deafeningly loud. Some members of the public are......... weird!

In some countries it is an offence to fail to give way to an emergency vehicle, even if they are driving through red traffic lights! REMEMBER, in our country a green traffic light means proceed................. If it is safe to do so!

John

 

[TomTanderson]

Our force is currently trialling a unit that automatically records to a secure hard-drive whenever the vehicle goes above a certain speed and/or if the blues & 2's are switched on. This, added to recording tracking of the vehicles' whereabouts at all times, means we are watched to a massive extent whenever we patrol.

I agree that we would should expect much higher standards of Police drivers but I wonder how many of us would enjoy having our driving monitored to this level and having to justify it

 

[PXW]

Hi Peter,
There will ALWAYS be a time when drawing attention to yourself is not practical, but getting to the destination as quickly as is safely possible is a must. I'm sorry but sometimes having the blue lights on or the sirens is a very strict no, no. Hence my strongly disagreeing. In life I have found nothing will always be black and white!

It is just not practical to put adverts in the local paper to explain why
a certain vehicle, at a certain time, at a certain location, failed to have their siren sounding, blue lights flashing whilst speeding, going through red traffic lights or whatever. The onus however will always be on the driver of this vehicle to ensure they do not endanger other road users.

I have seen drivers deliberately obstruct fire engines, police vehicles and even ambulances which are attending emergencies with ALL their audible devices working. I have also seen pedestrians DELIBERATELY step-out onto a zebra crossing directly in the path of these vehicles even though those sirens are deafeningly loud. Some members of the public are......... weird!

In some countries it is an offence to fail to give way to an emergency vehicle, even if they are driving through red traffic lights! REMEMBER, in our country a green traffic light means proceed................. If it is safe to do so!

John

Your observations on the weirdness of folk I cannot disagree with. On the use of warning lights etc - as I said in my post, there are plenty of options available to the modern police car if blues and/or siren is inappropriate. I also said there might be the odd exception - so I haven't claimed it is a black and white issue. But in the case I initally referred to, the siren/blue light would have alerted no criminal but would have made the road much safer.

I completely fail to understand your point about adverts in the local paper - where did that come from??!