I realise that but with protected no claims if you are a bad driver and they quote you a premium of £10k and you have 90% no claims, means you pay only £1k even though you are an accident waiting to happen and yes some companies now do give 90% no claimsmadness
flanaia1 said:
I'm a 10 to two merchant and find that this is comfortable for me. In last night's motoring programme on BBC2 it was stated that if you cross your hands at the steering wheel while at the same time your airbag went off, you would probably involuntarily punch your face at 200 mph. Now that's a sobering thought./QUOTE]
If the air bag goes off when your hands are crossed it usually ends up with broken nose and two broken wristsI'm a 10 to 2 merchant too and i'm not saying I never cross my hands but if it goes pear shaped thee is a price to pay.
The same programme you refer to next week compares elderly and young drivers, now that will be interesting
Hi flanaia1
I haven’t spoken to you in a good while now Ian, so how are you. This is a really interesting thread, and one that I will watch and follow with great interest. You and w124nut do raise some very good points though relating to airbag injuries. Here is some information you may find interesting that I wrote quite a while ago now regarding airbag deployment on a previous post of mine. You may find it interesting, or even alarming.
I’ll keep this as is simple as is possible and without going into the technical and scientific details of how and why this system operates. When a vehicle is involved in a frontal impact crash, several things happen immediately before the vehicle starts to deform, firstly, the “sensing” accelerometer, known to you as a “crash sensor”, which is normally located on the bonnet slam panel is automatically triggered, this in turn is sensed by the SRS modules “safing” sensors, which are located within the module and mounted on top of the transmission tunnel. When all the condition are met and verified by the SRS module that a crash is occurring, it triggers the drivers/passenger’s airbag, or even both, depending upon the severity of the impact. The driver’s airbag is actually fully deployed within a 30-millisecond time frame and is actually being deflated within a further 100 milliseconds. So, what does this actually mean, well, most people can blink the eye 4 times within a second, that represents 250 milliseconds per blink. If you now consider that the airbag was actually deployed in 30 milliseconds, then that represents the airbag being deployed 8 times quicker than a blink of an eye - scientific and engineering fact.
On a side door collision impact the thorax or side airbag actually deploys within a 12-millisecond time frame, curtain airbags are the same. I don’t need to do the maths for that but that’s 20 times quicker that that single blink of the eye. If you notice the time frame periods of deployment of these individual airbags, then its understandable that the side airbags have to deploy that much quicker than that of the drivers airbag because of the relatively short distances of some 6 inches from the door to the side of your body, or your head to the side of the door glass, compared to the 10-12 inches from the steering wheel to the chest and face. People don’t actually realise that when they do hit the airbag in a crash, they do so when its actually being deflated, the other way round would be a cause for instant major injuries or even death because of the gas pressures involved in deploying it in the first instance. I won’t go into the physics and gas laws here but gas expansion rates are pretty frightening to say the least. You yourself should know this anyway Ian being a Chartered Chemical Engineer by profession.
If your even interested, then just one of the many types of propellants still used today in steering wheel airbags is actually sodium azide, formerly known as solid rocket fuel propellant, approx 2-3 grams used in steering wheels dependant upon how many litres of gas you require. In its current static and stable salt formation state below 292 deg. C, it is pretty harmless and only explodes releasing its energy and producing nitrogen gas when triggered and ignited with an electrical charge. The white stuff you often see following such a deployed of the airbags is actually only talcum powder or cornstarch – these products reduce and minimise the friction created within the unfolding of the airbag material during its deployment to prevent burns to the face and hands.
If you considered the above at any level, then you would be more frightened of the airbag deployment than that of the crash itself. As you pointed out though, it’s about re-education to all drivers, but I actually wonder how many people are aware of “passive” system dangers. For example, when airbags are deployed and all the windows are closed, the cabin pressure suddenly increases and has a direct and significant impact on the internal ear drum, often rendering ear impairment following such accidents. If you do actually know of anyone who has ever been unfortunate to be involved in such an accident involving the deployment of the airbags, then let them explain their experience of it. Pressures are even considered greater in very small cabin cars. How much education do we actually give to someone, even seatbelt systems are sometimes ignored, how many people do we still see driving without seatbelts on. Bellow and grober also make some really good strong points and observations here as well as many other forum members have done so, regarding phones and the like.
Where do we actually draw the line when educating drivers, especially when they are getting on in later years, I don’t actually know, I haven’t got any answers for that, its quite obvious though that it’s a free for all out there, and people still do as they see fit. I’m 58 years old next year anyway, so by your reckoning, you’ll soon have me off the road with your theory in 12 years time.
My mother-in-law is 78 years old now and is still driving; albeit in a small capacity, she is only a very small lady and has to put cushions behind her to support her back when driving, as well as the seat being as far forward as it will travel. At this stage she is almost on top of the steering wheel bar a couple of inches away, and that really bothers my wife and me. With respect to her though, I am sick of telling her how dangerous it is, especially if she were to ever be involved in an accident, god forbid. I’m afraid it does fall on deaf ears at times though, other than that, she would not be able to drive if she put the seat any further back because she could not reach the pedals – strange, but very true. Maybe I should consider putting some big blocks on the pedals, knowing her though, she would only take them off - joking of course. Seriously though, how do we make provision and facilitate re-educating people, a huge debate and no doubt with excessive cost implications I’m afraid, and not one that I would wish to subscribe to anyway.
As you already know this Ian, I spent a considerable amount of my years working for the Forensic Science Service as an Consultant Engineer, part of my responsibilities at the time was primarily devoted to automobile accidents, component failures and reconstructions, during that period, I did get to interview many injured parties, both drivers and passengers, with some terrible injuries, even caused by airbags themselves. Its true, airbags do save lives, but equally, they can cause an awful lot of damage and trauma. I often wondered at the time if they would have known and understood what lurked beneath that steering wheel cover, and the consequences thereof, would they have driven the vehicle any differently, probably. There’s the old adage and phrase that comes to mind here though, what you don’t know, doesn’t hurt, which is very true. In all honesty, I can say with absolute clarity that the majority of accident victims were in the lower age groups; I have never ever interviewed an elderly person. They do have accidents, as the statistics do show, but in a minority group.
Current airbag technology on some of the higher end premium brands now employs the use of Ultrasonic Occupant Classification Systems and the very latest Optical Occupant Classification and Tracking System. Very complex systems and way beyond the scope of this thread. So, this is my one and only contribution to this thread, hope you find this information serves of some use. Probably now find that more people will claim for hearing impairment alongside those infamous whiplash injuries, it’s only a matter of time, watch this space, as they say.
Best Regards,
Dash1
I realise that but with protected no claims if you are a bad driver and they quote you a premium of £10k and you have 90% no claims, means you pay only £1k even though you are an accident waiting to happen and yes some companies now do give 90% no claims
I realise that but with protected no claims if you are a bad driver and they quote you a premium of £10k and you have 90% no claims, means you pay only £1k even though you are an accident waiting to happen and yes some companies now do give 90% no claims
In the majority of cases increased premiums may well price people off the road but for the "well heeled" this may not be the case. I personally know of a case where a director of a large transport/plant hire company could always get insurance for his high powered cars despite a very poor accident record by simply threatening to take his fleet business elsewhere. Sadly in his case he had to kill 2 people before he was taken off the road.I realise that but with protected no claims if you are a bad driver and they quote you a premium of £10k and you have 90% no claims, means you pay only £1k even though you are an accident waiting to happen and yes some companies now do give 90% no claims
I think the guy in question had umpteen years no claims in his earlier years and had protected from there on in, but you can protect your NCB after only one years insurance which I have just done with my daughters so now she can reach maximum NCB without too much worry. What I don't know though is the point when Insurers say enough is enough and won't protect NCB anymore, is it based on number of accidents, value of claims or do they just not care
I think the guy in question had umpteen years no claims in his earlier years and had protected from there on in, but you can protect your NCB after only one years insurance which I have just done with my daughters so now she can reach maximum NCB without too much worry. What I don't know though is the point when Insurers say enough is enough and won't protect NCB anymore, is it based on number of accidents, value of claims or do they just not care
