E class Triumphs

[Ted]

I suppose my point about car surveys can be summed up like this.
Imagine there is this car. Its got excellent reliability. Performance to spare, in fact everything including an excellent dealer network. Its affordable and reasonably economical. In fact its the runaway winner in the survey by a mile.
The only fly in the ointment is that it is as ugly as sin and you you hate its looks.

Ahh, the Lexus SC430

 

[Dieselman]

Ahh, the Lexus SC430

I'll tell my neighbour. He traded his CLK Cab for one...

 

[Mr E]

If a survey asks 'How many times has your car had to go to be repaired in the last 12 months?' I think most people would be able to answer that question accurately.
They then go on to ask which part of the car required repair...blah, blah, blah..
These are NOT opinion questions, they seek factual answers.

There's the problem - define repair. Mrs E would call a service a repair. I may not call changing a bulb a repair.

It's also a question that could lead to bias. Better is "how many times did you visit the dealer", followed by "how many times for service, repair, etc" with a definition for each. If you've sat through a properly-conducted survey you'll know what I mean.

Hence why the OEMs conduct their own surveys.

That's not to say that consumer perception is ignored - it's not - but the perception of reliability can be dramatically changed without any engineering input.

 

[gary350]

Talkinig about the E Class, I have had 4 tests drives in them (all 320 cdi) spread over time from first launch to easter this year and each time I got back to the dealer I felt disappointed with the car. The CLS is a much better drive and the S Class is even better. I tried very hard to keep in the mercedes net and even bought 2 during this time both SLKs. I have changed my allegience this time but would still consider an MB next time, if they improve the driving experience.

gary

 

[Dieselman]

There's the problem - define repair. Mrs E would call a service a repair. I may not call changing a bulb a repair.

I can't speak for Mrs E, but Mrs Dm had no problem deciding the difference between a routine service and non routing/breakdown work when asked the questions, as they are very specific. One is asked to detail the work done and the result.

Fortunately only having had three very small issues during the 3 year warranty period, all resolved at service time, there wasn't much to report on her high ranking car..
The issues were:
Rear brake pads noisy when reversing...Fit shims.
Alarm interior sensors too sensetive...adjust.
Very slight knock from front suspension (she didn't actually hear this, I did.)...tighten bolt.

I fear we are going round in circles here.

 

[janner]

These reliability statistics are a bit of a joke and how on earth can anyone compare a very basic car that has no options, extra's etc to a car has electronic gadgets coming out of its ears?

John

I'm sorry John but I disagree. Lexus have as many (if not more) electrical gadgets as standard but they still do well in consumer surveys.
It seems Mercedes are slowly getting better, it's just a shame it was allowed to get so bad during the mid/late 90s.
Imagine telling the bloke that was building my W124 in 1994 that in ten years time Mercedes' apalling reputation for rust would force them to try and improve their rustproofing to Fiat's current standard.

 

[hawk20]

Why not try sticking to the Autoexpress reliability survey you originally started this thread with.

They ask very specific questions about how many visits, what for, which part of the car, how many attempts to fix it, how long it took, etc.

I agree the surveys may well not be giving the answer you want, but that doen't stop them being valid.

Well I did their DriverPower survey which I quote in my original posting and none of the detailed questions you mention were asked. It was all simple marks out of 5 stuff (5 is excellent 3 is average -that sort of thing.)

 

[hawk20]

I'm sorry John but I disagree. Lexus have as many (if not more) electrical gadgets as standard but they still do well in consumer surveys.
It seems Mercedes are slowly getting better, it's just a shame it was allowed to get so bad during the mid/late 90s.
Imagine telling the bloke that was building my W124 in 1994 that in ten years time Mercedes' apalling reputation for rust would force them to try and improve their rustproofing to Fiat's current standard.

Well I think John is right. Consider what JD Power say about Lexus: -
"The Lexus IS is second in class and third overall.

Owners reported very good interior build quality, loved the way the car drives and looks, and rated Lexus dealers as among the best.

There are chinks in its armour, though. Mechanical reliability was only average; a number of owners reported engine faults. Running costs were so-so, with relatively steep fuel bills."

I sat in a friend's Skoda. the drivers seat is simple and adjusts purely mechanically. Like an old E class from the 80's. Nothing wrong with that. Simple, cheap and very unlikely ever to go wrong.

At the time I had my S320cdi. Endless electric motors to raise and lower the squab, more to elongate or shorten the squab, more to adjust the headrests, more to recline the backrest, more still to adjust the lumbar support, and yet more still to move the whole seat fore and aft and yet more to raise and lower its height. Having set all these, and other motors to move the steering wheel in and out and up and down, and to set the mirrors, all the info can be stored in a little 'computer' so that at the press of a button all the settings can be returned to. Two other people can store their personal settings as well. And all that is repeated for the passenger seat.

Which is more likely to go wrong? A Mercedes where many choose complex gizmos or a Skoda where very few do?

Two points. One is that the more complex the beast and the more electronic options it has, the more likely it is that something will fail. The second is that we may prefer the more complex beast even if it does go wrong more often. I loved the memory seats being 6ft with a 5ft wife who loves driving.

All credit to Mercedes and Lexus that they both seem able to achieve high customer satisfaction despite great complexity. But neither have yet achieved complete reliabilty.