E43 Tyre Skipping

[MrRight]

I do wonder though if we are wishing for too much of our cars wheels and tyres to do everything, everywhere. 275section by 30 profile on 20inch alloys (I think that’s right for my e43) are not going to work as well as higher profile all season or winter tyres below average 7C (typical UK winter). That leads to crabbing but also driving a fairly high performance car on wide summer tyres in the winter. That’s why my two quicker daily cars are on winter tyres now and the other car is in storage for the winter.

I completely agree, the days of high profile tyres on more performance oriented cars are over and low profile and ultra high performance summer tyres will skip in cold temps. Just because 10 years ago someone had an AWD car that didnt skip doesn't make a real relevant comparison with a car today unless the same tyres are being used in both cars. The market and tyre tech has moved on to accommodate higher power requirements for example. In fact it would be a bit crazy for merc to release a performance car like the c43 and then stick high profile comfort tyres on some tiny rims. No sir.

Lastly , the fact that the crabbing threads seem to be popping up now , rather than in the summer , to me personally anecdotally suggests that all these "terribly flawed" cars drove perfectly out of driveways in the warmer months, thereby nullifying the view that there is a flaw in the design of the cars.

Lastly, I'll repeat this point again, with this hoppy skippy tyres , you may get embarrassed coming out of your driveway , but at least for most of the year your car will probably have better handling and stopping distances for most of the year vs more comfortable all season tyres.

 

[grober]

At this point it should be noted that this problem is more noticeable in 4wd RHD cars, which may explain why it hasn't achieved greater attention. This may be due to the fact in 4wd RHD models the steering gear and front driveshaft+ differential have to compete for space on the same side of the engine/car and this compromises the available steering geometry?

 

[Germgh0st]

I bet the tyre size has a lot to do with it, hence my reason for asking.

Whilst technically low profile I bet they’d be nowhere near the super low profiles we regularly see today. The compound would have been less extreme, and the tyre would be designed for a lighter car and so would require less stiffness engineered into the tyre wall compared to a modern tyre for a modern car.

The S2 was actually quite a heavy car, 1500 kg at least, and the tyres were pretty low profile. It originally came with 17" wheels and the previous owner had changed then to 18". BUT I always bought Bridgestone tyres for it, so that's probably the difference.

 

[MrRight]

The S2 was actually quite a heavy car, 1500 kg at least, and the tyres were pretty low profile. It originally came with 17" wheels and the previous owner had changed then to 18". BUT I always bought Bridgestone tyres for it, so that's probably the difference.

Lovely cars , those audis back in the day. Is this a 1990s model car we are talking about for comparison . How long ago did you own this car ?

 

[grober]

The problem with comparing the fore and aft configuration engined AUDI and MERCEDES models is their very different 4wd set ups. Arguably the AUDI has the better packaging while MERCEDES has the better weight distribution. The crucial factor here is the front axle line in relation to the mass of the engine. The Audi engine is in effect hung in front of the front axle and transmission making it a predominantly understeering car despite this shortcoming being hidden by the increased traction of its 4wd system.

 

[Phil916]

The tyre is a Yokohama 245/35ZR20.

The report I have from Yokohama Technical Department states both tyres exhibit 'abnormal wear' therefore they as the tyre manufacturer would not expect wear like this 'on this size of tyre'.

With respect to the previous post suggesting a tyre with 3mm tread depth remaining is more than 50% worn I totally agree but if the tyres were changed at the point before they deteriorated to this extremely work position they would have been replaced with something like 5mm of tread. Considering a brand new tyre has 8km then I do feel this is an unacceptable position.

Lastly on the Ackerman position then yes compensation for performance is acceptable on a performance vehicle but surely adjustments to such extreme to ensure better handling at the limit but with such impact on tyre wear is not an acceptable position to place customers in. Perhaps this would stand up if you bought a 911 GT3 RD that you enjoyed pushing on track days every other weekend but an E Class estate?? I'm sure the difference in Ackerman setup would be very difficult to perceive driving on the road and approaching the limit.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The tyre is a Yokohama 245/35ZR20.

The report I have from Yokohama Technical Department states both tyres exhibit 'abnormal wear' therefore they as the tyre manufacturer would not expect wear like this 'on this size of tyre'.

With respect to the previous post suggesting a tyre with 3mm tread depth remaining is more than 50% worn I totally agree but if the tyres were changed at the point before they deteriorated to this extremely work position they would have been replaced with something like 5mm of tread. Considering a brand new tyre has 8km then I do feel this is an unacceptable position.

Lastly on the Ackerman position then yes compensation for performance is acceptable on a performance vehicle but surely adjustments to such extreme to ensure better handling at the limit but with such impact on tyre wear is not an acceptable position to place customers in. Perhaps this would stand up if you bought a 911 GT3 RD that you enjoyed pushing on track days every other weekend but an E Class estate?? I'm sure the difference in Ackerman setup would be very difficult to perceive driving on the road and approaching the limit.

How often do you manoeuvre the car at very slow speeds at full lock or close to full lock? For example do you have do do a U-turn or three point turn regularly, perhaps turning around on your driveway, or getting in or out of your garage?

Doing this regularly can give the inside edge of a very wide front tyre on any car a hard time, but especially on a Mercedes. When many Mercedes are on full lock it looks like something behind the wheel is going snap because the angle of the wheel is no extreme.

I’m not suggesting that if you do them this makes the wear pattern “OK”, but it it could easily be contributing to the situation by making the wear caused by the skipping much worse than for the average person with a GLC.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a set of premium quality winter tyres would dramatically reduce the wear pattern. I think it would still wear more of the inside, but not so dramatically.

 

[grober]

Lastly on the Ackerman position then yes compensation for performance is acceptable on a performance vehicle but surely adjustments to such extreme to ensure better handling at the limit but with such impact on tyre wear is not an acceptable position to place customers in. Perhaps this would stand up if you bought a 911 GT3 RD that you enjoyed pushing on track days every other weekend but an E Class estate?? I'm sure the difference in Ackerman setup would be very difficult to perceive driving on the road and approaching the limit.

The fact that the steering knuckle replacement was not available for the high performance 43 and 63 models for reasons of pre-existing differences in ackerman geometry is of course speculation on my part, but would seem to fit the bill for several reasons. I perhaps expressed the handling "performance" aspect too crudely. In all likelyhood it would have been made to make the handling more predicable/transitional on the limit rather than gain absolute cornering performance. In an era of manufacturer "culpability" perhaps Mercedes were merely playing it safe? I am sympathetic to your position on excessive tyre wear and can only suggest a complete suspension alignment by a tracking specialist like Wheels in Motion to remove any doubts. A trap we can fall into is to put excessive tyre wear down to a pre-existing suspension geometry problem which might hide other "out of spec" suspension misalignment? I should add that any alignment check has to be done on almost new tyres as any excessive uneven tyre tread wear has already performed an "IN HOUSE" attempt at re-alignment.

 

[Germgh0st]

Lovely cars , those audis back in the day. Is this a 1990s model car we are talking about for comparison . How long ago did you own this car ?

Yes it was a 1991. Only reason for using it for comparison was because it's the only other 4WD car I've owned. Back in the days when they had proper Torsen diffs and you could actually feel the power being shifted about underneath you.

 

[Phil916]

How often do you manoeuvre the car at very slow speeds at full lock or close to full lock? For example do you have do do a U-turn or three point turn regularly, perhaps turning around on your driveway, or getting in or out of your garage?

Doing this regularly can give the inside edge of a very wide front tyre on any car a hard time, but especially on a Mercedes. When many Mercedes are on full lock it looks like something behind the wheel is going snap because the angle of the wheel is no extreme.

I’m not suggesting that if you do them this makes the wear pattern “OK”, but it it could easily be contributing to the situation by making the wear caused by the skipping much worse than for the average person with a GLC.

I wouldn’t be surprised if a set of premium quality winter tyres would dramatically reduce the wear pattern. I think it would still wear more of the inside, but not so dramatically.

The main issue is that you don't have to be on full lock, or even near full lock for the skipping to occur. Turning right out of a tee junction and the tyres skip. This is turning the steering wheel through 3/4 of a turn, full lock is 1 and 3/8ths turns. Everyday the car needs full lock, it is an E Class estate therefore simple parking the vehicle requires full lock in any normal car park or street parking situation.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

The main issue is that you don't have to be on full lock, or even near full lock for the skipping to occur. Turning right out of a tee junction and the tyres skip. This is turning the steering wheel through 3/4 of a turn, full lock is 1 and 3/8ths turns. Everyday the car needs full lock, it is an E Class estate therefore simple parking the vehicle requires full lock in any normal car park or street parking situation.

My comments regarding full lock or near full lock were regarding wear on the inner edge on the front wheel of many Mercedes, rather than the propensity to skip in cold weather conditions.

 

[Germgh0st]

Had all four of my tyres replaced FOC by Mercedes just before Christmas with Continentals. No more skipping

 

[SarahAnn200]

Had all four of my tyres replaced FOC by Mercedes just before Christmas with Continentals. No more skipping

Great to hear! I wondered how you had gone on. They gave me Bridgestones and mine is perfect now.

 

[Robg8]

Phil916 did you resolve with MB? I have exactly the same experience on my E43.

 

[jacob05]

Great to hear! I wondered how you had gone on. They gave me Bridgestones and mine is perfect now.

My E43 has yokohama Advan sports 105 20 inch not sure which tire I should go for the winter season as the temp will drop during this time of the year. Please suggest I am running normal tires not run flats

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

My E43 has yokohama Advan sports 105 20 inch not sure which tire I should go for the winter season as the temp will drop during this time of the year. Please suggest I am running normal tires not run flats

Go for any premium brand available in the right size and load rating. Speed rating is not significant as you limit the speed of the car to match the winter tyre speed rating using the settings on your cluster.

 

[23 Romeo Tango]

not sure which tire I should go for the winter season as the temp will drop during this time of the year.

Welcome Jacob,

If I was you I would be looking at an almost new set of Michelin Pilot Alpin 4's with A1 condition 19" wheels. As it happens, I know where there is a set for sale (and the price has just been reduced).
19" will improve the ride comfort, having more tyre side wall and the compound eliminates the parking speed tyre skip that I'm sure you will have read about.

[SOLD] - 19" Judd T325 Gunmetal alloy wheels and winter tyres (265/40 R19) | Classifieds - Mercedes Parts or general for Sale

For sale a set of (4) 9.5Jx19 Judd T325 Gunmetal alloy wheels and Michelin Pilot Alpin 4 winter tyres, 265/40 R19 MO 102V 4 x Genuine Mercedes TPMS and a full set of silver wheel bolts included. Bolt pattern 5 x 112 Centre bore 66.6 Click here for the JUDD website showing these wheels As you...

forums.mbclub.co.uk

They came off my W213 E63s, I have checked the link below and the sizes/offsets will be fine for your car.
If I'm not mistaken yours should be
Front: 245/35/20 ET 20mm
Rear: 275/30/20 ET 49mm

The wheels and tyres for sale are
Front: 265/40/19 ET 25mm
Rear: 265/40/19 ET 45mm

Wheel Offset Calculator

Use our wheel offset calculator to visualize the new tire position when changing wheel and tire sizes. Convert wheel offset and backspacing to calculate the correct setup for your vehicle.

tiresize.com

 

[jacob05]

Welcome Jacob,

If I was you I would be looking at an almost new set of Michelin Pilot Alpin 4's with A1 condition 19" wheels. As it happens, I know where there is a set for sale (and the price has just been reduced).
19" will improve the ride comfort, having more tyre side wall and the compound eliminates the parking speed tyre skip that I'm sure you will have read about.

[SOLD] - 19" Judd T325 Gunmetal alloy wheels and winter tyres (265/40 R19) | Classifieds - Mercedes Parts or general for Sale

For sale a set of (4) 9.5Jx19 Judd T325 Gunmetal alloy wheels and Michelin Pilot Alpin 4 winter tyres, 265/40 R19 MO 102V 4 x Genuine Mercedes TPMS and a full set of silver wheel bolts included. Bolt pattern 5 x 112 Centre bore 66.6 Click here for the JUDD website showing these wheels As you...

forums.mbclub.co.uk

They came off my W213 E63s, I have checked the link below and the sizes/offsets will be fine for your car.
If I'm not mistaken yours should be
Front: 245/35/20 ET 20mm
Rear: 275/30/20 ET 49mm

The wheels and tyres for sale are
Front: 265/40/19 ET 25mm
Rear: 265/40/19 ET 45mm

Wheel Offset Calculator

Use our wheel offset calculator to visualize the new tire position when changing wheel and tire sizes. Convert wheel offset and backspacing to calculate the correct setup for your vehicle.

tiresize.com

Thank you for the information appreciate it very much. Sorry for going off topic

bought this car a couple of days ago from a third party dealership as a used model, I have nothing but problem with this car, initially it was battery issues where car didn’t start all the remote function were unavailable the battery always showed critical, even after clocking 250 miles in ECO within a day it showed critical the following day, went in to the dealership they said that it was a coding issue and then the coding issue was fixed. As the car was using the battery even when its locked away.


Just a day ago loud thud and jolt when changing driver select from ECO to Sport plus, then the car went it to limp mode and became alright after restart, today the break down engineer said that there is no fault code or problem but he said he will update the transmission and engine software and then he said the control unit failed , so he also suggested control unit may or may not be the root cause of the transmission bang, The loud thud really make me worry as transmission are really expensive to repair, so it is a big disappointment for me from the beginning of the ownership. What is your view of the problems I have in E 43 I hope my issues is a one of case rather than common problems with E 43.

 

[23 Romeo Tango]

As you have already shared your issues on another thread, I suggest you don't high jack this thread. In my opinion, I wouldn't bother looking into buying winter tyres until you get the other issues dealt with. I don't want to worry you, but it seems that tyres are the least of your problems at the moment.

 

[jacob05]

As you have already shared your issues on another thread, I suggest you don't high jack this thread. In my opinion, I wouldn't bother looking into buying winter tyres until you get the other issues dealt with. I don't want to worry you, but it seems that tyres are the least of your problems at the moment.

Agreed