Electric car depreciation

[AMGeed]

I am also on a Porsche forum, I know, wash my mouth out with salt Anyway this video is worth a watch. He is the most boring video maker ever, so save 20mins of your life & start the video at 20 minutes to see the depreciation. He has a Taycan & even Porsche don't want it back in part exchange, but he also mentions Audi e-tron. Guess most makes are similar

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I posted that same video a week or so ago. Dreadfully boring video but an eye opener that even Porsche don't want to buy the car back.

The EV fact thread | Electric Mercedes models

Except electricity prices have risen sharply in Norway since 2020, in no small part due to Norway exporting its formerly 'cheap' hydro generated electricity abroad (to the UK & Germany). According to this...

forums.mbclub.co.uk

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

As Harry Metcalfe said a few weeks ago, the manufacturers are all required to meet minimum new EV sales proportions from this year onwards, so the last thing they want is to lose a potential new sale to a used example on their forecourt. Hence they’re not really interested in taking in a used EV.

That's not how new car and trade-ins work. Doesn't matter if it's a C200, an SL63 or an E300e

Main dealers offer a trade in to get a new car sale and to hide a discount on that new bit of kit. Generally they don't keep the trade in on the forecourt, they kick it on immediately to their "contacts" (a story in itself), or through electronic or physical auctions

No-one wants first gen Taycans because of their unreliability and the issues that they've had with HVAC and component supply. All discussed as nauseam on here over the last three years.

Depreciation? How about a nice 5 year old S560 Coupe on 20k for more than 50% off?

We're not asking £100k, we're not asking £75k, open to offers just under £50k?

e

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I watched it. He did buy it with Porsche finance. The fact that he’s talking about negative equity suggests that it’s HP or PCP rather than a lease.

Ending a lease eary means paying the remaining schedule of payments over the full term, and has nothing at all to do with the value of the car at that point in time.

It’s common for car finance deals to result in negative equity when terminating early. In percentage terms you could find yourself in the same situation in a supermini..

In a normal market the rate of depreciation reduces over time but the repayments remain the same, and so as a result payments catch-up towards the end.

This is not dissimilar to mortgage repayments reducing the capital at a faster rate towards the end as interest makes up a smaller proportion of the monthly repayment.

Like many manufacturer finance deals designed to shift metal, the residual value is likely to be high, as doing so reduces monthly payments bagging more sales.

If he bought a £120k luxury car on a finance deal, and didn’t expect to be in negative equity in the event that he chose to terminate early, then he is very naive or daft.

To labour your point - just a bit - there are a lot of naive people out there who've got caught on the wrong side of these finance deals, having "thought" that they would be able to "flip" Porsches that they "luckily managed to buy without paying overs."

That you can do it with a GT3 doesn't mean that you can do it with a high volume Taycan.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

There was a news story recently that they had reduced production of the 500e due to poor sales. And only a couple of days ago it was reported that they were looking at re-engineering the 500e to take an ICE. Both are mentioned here:

Electric Fiat 500 could be given petrol engine | Autocar

Current petrol 500 could be replaced by a converted 500 EV as new EU cybersecurity rules come into force

www.autocar.co.uk

Putting numbers on that, the ambitious target was 90,000 500e's in 2023.

They were 15% below target with 77,000 in Europe. That won't be the only Stellantis motor that fell short of target last year.

Who knows what discounts were, or weren't offered to kick units out of the door.

As we've said before, in 2023 there were no fines for failing to sell enough EV's in Europe.

The EU and UK fines (£15k a pop) for failing to sell enough EV's will start from January 2024.

There'll be a whole Sales target game going on about shoving Governments into giving tax breaks, or at least a rule change, in 2024.

 

[st13phil]

Generally they don't keep the trade in on the forecourt, they kick it on immediately to their "contacts" (a story in itself), or through electronic or physical auctions

That depends on the age & condition of the trade-in.

The last four Mercedes-Benz cars I’ve traded in at Mercedes main dealers were subsequently displayed on and sold from their forecourts.

 

[SpikyMikey]

There was a news story recently that they had reduced production of the 500e due to poor sales. And only a couple of days ago it was reported that they were looking at re-engineering the 500e to take an ICE. Both are mentioned here:

Electric Fiat 500 could be given petrol engine | Autocar

Current petrol 500 could be replaced by a converted 500 EV as new EU cybersecurity rules come into force

www.autocar.co.uk

I haven't delved any deeper, but why would a car manufacturer be forced to change the propulsion unit in a car due to new EU cybersecurity rules?

 

[Scooby_Doo]

The EU and UK fines (£15k a pop) for failing to sell enough EV's will start from January 2024.

That'll be good for a laugh , I reckon every manufacturer will be struggling to sell enough EVs in 2024 let alone the following years as the EV required percentage increases year by year. Which idiot dreamed up that little rule, are they actually on the same planet as us mere mortals.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

That depends on the age & condition of the trade-in.
The last four Mercedes-Benz cars I’ve traded in at Mercedes main dealers were subsequently displayed on and sold from their forecourts.

For sure. My point was that most trade-ins aren't.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

That'll be good for a laugh , I reckon every manufacturer will be struggling to sell enough EVs in 2024 let alone the following years as the EV required percentage increases year by year. Which idiot dreamed up that little rule, are they actually on the same planet as us mere mortals.

You voted for them. EU MEP's passed the legislation drafted by the Commission.

We've been on this path for a long time now. That's explicitly why the Fiesta, Focus and other high volume small ICE hatchbacks got cancelled

(There are workarounds, as much discussed - Tesla and other EV manufacturers "trade" their credits with ICE producers.)

 

[Scooby_Doo]

You voted for them. EU MEP's passed the legislation drafted by the Commission.

We've been on this path for a long time now. That's explicitly why the Fiesta, Focus and other high volume small ICE hatchbacks got cancelled

(There are workarounds, as much discussed - Tesla and other EV manufacturers "trade" their credits with ICE producers.)

Was aware of the workarounds, just makes more of a mockery of the whole system.
I suppose I did vote for somebody who doesn't have to buy his own car and probably gets driven everywhere. Much like that idiot ,who I definitely didn't vote for, who thought that a blanket 20MPH limit was a good idea.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

If anyone wants a FIAT 500e, £15k gets you a nice 2022 with less than 10k on the clock

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

There's a saying in Wales - if it was a donkey and it had LABOUR written on it, then people would vote for it. Nearly 500,000 signed the petition which is more votes than labour had at the last election, will they win the next Welsh Assembly election - you bet your life they will.

Let's pray that the donkeys remember to write "Labour" on the side next time.

 

[st13phil]

My point was that most trade-ins aren't.

Cross-brand trade-ins are generally traded out, as are trade-ins that don’t meet the main dealer criteria of age, condition, history, etc. Alternatively, they go to the raffle (auction).

Within brand trade-ins - especially for the premium brands - that do meet the age criteria etc. are generally retailed by the dealer, or from another franchised dealer within the group. The rest of their used stock will be from fleet returns, e.g. MB “management” cars.

 

[BTB 500]

I haven't delved any deeper, but why would a car manufacturer be forced to change the propulsion unit in a car due to new EU cybersecurity rules?

The ICE 500 is a 2007 car built by Fiat Poland that doesn't meet the latest EU regs on safety and cybersecurity (I'm guessing the latter is to do with remote connectivity built into the car - ability for over the air software updates etc.). I suspect they hadn't foreseen the continued strong demand for an ICE 500 and were expecting to drop this model and sell only the 2020 500e (built by Stellantis in Italy). As I understand it updating the older ICE 500 to make it compliant would be more difficult/expensive than dropping an ICE powertrain into the newer 500e.

 

[ALFAitalia]

.......so thats is the only outlet to joe public,as long as you do a small mileage these EV's are ok to buy and no car maker can exist on those sales especially as these sales are not new cars.....

Lots of nonsense in that post..... but this is the best bit above! There are reps doing thousands of miles a week in Teslas etc... and they manage. And when they and other models get into private hands they will do loads less miles. What's the average EV range now? Say.... 250 miles.....how many private people do more than that in a day and how often....well with the average ICE car annual mileage being under 8000 miles, not many and not often is the answer.... so even without ever charging anywhere except your drive at night that gives you over 91,000 miles per year without using a public charger.....so yeah.... no good unless you do a small mileage!!!!!...right!..so much anti EV BS on this forum.....I hate EVs..... but at least I keep it semi factual!
All car prices are through the floor ... and falling.... the only reason I've still not replaced mine 3 years after I was going to....and prices will keep falling..... and give it a few years when Joe Average ( who could not care less what powers his car) realises 2035 is not far away and future ICE car purchase might be virtually unsaleable nearer then and then you could well see ICE cars losing rather more than EVs do now. Petrolheads like us are a tiny minority....most people just don't care.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

If anyone wants a FIAT 500e, £15k gets you a nice 2022 with less than 10k on the clock

They’re great value secondhand, just like the previous generation ICE 500. I’ve been looking at the, for my daughter. The range is pretty good on them too.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Lots of nonsense in that post..... but this is the best bit above! There are reps doing thousands of miles a week in Teslas etc... and they manage. And when they and other models get into private hands they will do loads less miles. What's the average EV range now? Say.... 250 miles.....how many private people do more than that in a day and how often....well with the average ICE car annual mileage being under 8000 miles, not many and not often is the answer.... so even without ever charging anywhere except your drive at night that gives you over 91,000 miles per year without using a public charger.....so yeah.... no good unless you do a small mileage!!!!!...right!..so much anti EV BS on this forum.....I hate EVs..... but at least I keep it semi factual!
All car prices are through the floor ... and falling.... the only reason I've still not replaced mine 3 years after I was going to....and prices will keep falling..... and give it a few years when Joe Average ( who could not care less what powers his car) realises 2035 is not far away and future ICE car purchase might be virtually unsaleable nearer then and then you could well see ICE cars losing rather more than EVs do now. Petrolheads like us are a tiny minority....most people just don't care.

In my team I have a few people doing more than 60,000 miles per annum in EVs, and I’m talking the small Volvo models. They use the public charging network a lot and all have a story of charging being a drama, but they had a story about refuelling being problematic too. If they can make it work then most people can, and those who don’t want to don’t have to.

 

[SpikyMikey]

The ICE 500 is a 2007 car built by Fiat Poland that doesn't meet the latest EU regs on safety and cybersecurity (I'm guessing the latter is to do with remote connectivity built into the car - ability for over the air software updates etc.). I suspect they hadn't foreseen the continued strong demand for an ICE 500 and were expecting to drop this model and sell only the 2020 500e (built by Stellantis in Italy). As I understand it updating the older ICE 500 to make it compliant would be more difficult/expensive than dropping an ICE powertrain into the newer 500e.

Ah, gotcha

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

They’re great value secondhand, just like the previous generation ICE 500. I’ve been looking at the, for my daughter. The range is pretty good on them too.

Aye, but it's the 2017 limited edition RIVA that catches my eye whenever I see it on the street. (£10k with 40k on the clock)

But then I remind myself that @Mactech tells me I should get an I3 for short range work.

Fiat World News | Fiat UK

Stay updated with the latest Fiat news. Explore articles covering innovations, events, and industry insights. Your source for all things Fiat.

www.fiat.co.uk

 

[Mactech]

But then I remind myself that @Mactech tells me I should get an I3 for short range work.

I will share my experience and observations on here, but never tell anyone what they should do or not do!
We are all very different and are in different situations.....and I've been told I'm more different than most....