EU plans for daytime running lights

[Diesel Benz]

Motor cycle groups are already trying to get this stopped as it will make them less obvious, as most bikers use there headlights during the day.

Funny, doesn't this indicate the these bikes are seen better if they have lights on also at daylight? Why wouldn't it help with cars too? Cars are bigger and easier to detect, this might not improve equally much with cars but every accident you can avoid is good.

 

[BTB 500]

100W per car is probably conservative, from memory headlamp bulbs are 50-55W but you've got rear lights to add on top of that, possibly side lights too.

 

[Diesel Benz]

Well on the assumption of 100W per car perhaps an alternative way of looking at it is 28,000,000 cars running on average for 2 hours per day.

That's about 0.25GW average.

I would reckon about 20% of my running would be with lights on anyway. So if that was applied across the board that gives 0.2GW average.

So 1GW may be a bit over the mark.

However mandated running lights might be lower power so that would possibly reduce the figures further.

I would be inclined to tighten up the rules and enforcment as to when lights are to be used rather than mandate them as being on all the time.

Perhaps one half of the 2 hours is driven with lights anyway. MBs with Xenons would not spend 100W but I accept it would still be close to that totally.

Did you count how many accident have to be avoided to save the same amount of CO2 when cars are repaired or new ones are built after accidents? Lost lives and injuries for people are not easy to turn into a comparable amount of CO2.

Now you may have figured out my personal opinion, or perhaps not: to me it is up to you, as long as I'm driving with lights always on, I can avoid most accidents from difficult to detect cars in the traffic, and for the rest I'm counting on my MB safety and assuming the other owner will pay for my car being fixed.

 

[Diesel Benz]

100W per car is probably conservative, from memory headlamp bulbs are 50-55W but you've got rear lights to add on top of that, possibly side lights too.

35W for Xenons, I agree that most are halogens where 100 W is not enough. But I understand halogens are driven with reduced power when in DRL mode?

And at least EU is not asking us to drive with CC. Perhaps this should not be mentioned, they might start thinking about that too.

 

[kwakdonut]

Funny, doesn't this indicate the these bikes are seen better if they have lights on also at daylight? Why wouldn't it help with cars too? Cars are bigger and easier to detect, this might not improve equally much with cars but every accident you can avoid is good.

Bikes are approx 1/4 to 1/3 as wide as a modern car, harder to see in daylight (and when you're miopic, on the phone, tuning the radio, applying make-up etc etc!). As a biker, I have always ridden with lights on - anything to make us more obvious was always a good idea. Likewise, my Kawasaki is lime green so does show up very well!!

Cars with lights on will simply make us 'vanish' especially the large numbers of cars who insist on having only one working headlight bulb and therefore look like bikes in the dark making overtaking very dangerous.

Another stupid, pointless EU directive which doesn't apply to us but will be applied regardless.

The sooner we pull out of the EU, the better.

 

[ukcodger]

Well on the assumption of 100W per car perhaps an alternative way of looking at it is 28,000,000 cars running on average for 2 hours per day.

That's about 0.25GW average.

I would reckon about 20% of my running would be with lights on anyway. So if that was applied across the board that gives 0.2GW average.

So 1GW may be a bit over the mark.

However mandated running lights might be lower power so that would possibly reduce the figures further.

I would be inclined to tighten up the rules and enforcment as to when lights are to be used rather than mandate them as being on all the time.

Maybe so, but chuck in the colossal lorry/van fleet in the UK and maybe we're approaching 0.5 GW. (Does the 28,000,000 include lorries, coz they're on the road most of the day.
Extend that throughout the EU and I'd hazard a real wild guess that you're racking up output into the atmosphere equivalent to Drax, Eggborough, Ferrybridge, plus a few more, all combined . Where are the Green Protesters when there's something to protest about?

 

[Marque]

...the reason why Volvos have them as standard

All cars sold in Scandinavia have it, not just Volvos. It started in this country as a marketing ploy devised by Volvo UK, and it worked!

 

[st13phil]

Cars with lights on will simply make us 'vanish'

Which is why the law that made daytime headlights mandatory for cars in Austria was repealed as of January this year. During the period when daytime headlights were mandatory there, collisions involving motorcycles climbed massively.

 

[Fandango]

Which is why the law that made daytime headlights mandatory for cars in Austria was repealed as of January this year. During the period when daytime headlights were mandatory there, collisions involving motorcycles climbed massively.

But it will be back in force January 2009.
Do you have any link with the accident stats?

 

[The G.F.P]

This idea originally came from Sweden, where it is compulsory. Many years ago, the entire country changed from driving on the left to driving on the right. In order to remind everyone that this had happened, the authorities ordered all drivers to drive with their lights on from the date of the change.

Someone noticed after a year or so that the road accident rate had declined significantly, so they made this rule a permanent one and later required all new cars to switch on their headlights automatically when the engine was running.

Research showed that the lower accident rate was due to greater visibility in poor daylight. Northern countries have many hours of twilight, even in the summer, and there are many roads through forests in Scandinavia. Similar conditions occur in Scotland, for example, and my headlights will often come on automatically when I drive up there in the daytime.

Driving conditions in Mediterranean countries are rather different. The light is much stronger and twilight is much shorter, so driving with headlights on in the daytime is rather pointless in Spain, for example.

Another example of EU bureaucrats trying to standardise everything with little overall benefit.

i was about to say that (in about 20 words)

i always drive with mine on day or night (except mid summer) as if you as a pedestrian or a turning car see a car with its lights on you know its being used and the lights make it easier to track an object

 

[NewMB]

I find it really difficult to understand why so many of you (the english) are so against DRL's?!

DRL's saves lives. DRL's makes your car easier to be seen in strong sunlight. Even during a normal sunny day, a car with DRL's can be seen a few hundred meters before car that doesn't have it. Pedestrians can see you. Bikers etc can also see you.

Yes, it puts an additional strain on the alternator, but is so marginal that I doubt that anyone will see that it will cost them more money on fuel.

If fuel is such a concern, switch of air cond, make sure tyres are inflated properly, also switch of radio..... or why not stop driving altogether?

Both wife and I drive with our lights on (setup in onboard menu) permanently and looking at the number of cars on the roads with their lights on, they seem to be more and more.

Environment?! Pffff.... what is one life saved against some extra CO2?

Think about this way.... you are driving along, no lights. A truck comes, can't see you. BOOM. Wish you had the lights on?

 

[st4]

No, No, No. Because as a country, during daylight, it will produce extra CO2 equivalent to about one half of a big modern power station (1GW). Based on 10,000,000 cars running at any one time, at 100 watts per car.
The environment will suffer,

And I care about that because....seriously, the planet and some polar bears will be fine. I don't see the need for DLR but the reasoning of the extra CO2 is a feable one.

How about just accepting that driving isn't a risk free process and regulating in DLR and other changes won't make a difference. People will die/get injured in RTA's nonetheless. The nanny state can fix everything by rules and regs

 

[Diesel Benz]

Bikes are approx 1/4 to 1/3 as wide as a modern car, harder to see in daylight (and when you're miopic, on the phone, tuning the radio, applying make-up etc etc!). As a biker, I have always ridden with lights on - anything to make us more obvious was always a good idea. Likewise, my Kawasaki is lime green so does show up very well!!

Cars with lights on will simply make us 'vanish' especially the large numbers of cars who insist on having only one working headlight bulb and therefore look like bikes in the dark making overtaking very dangerous.

Another stupid, pointless EU directive which doesn't apply to us but will be applied regardless.

The sooner we pull out of the EU, the better.

I interpret this that you want the bikes to be saved but don't care about the cars.

I could even agree that it decreases the gain for bikes but do we have to compromise our safety in order not to reduce that for bikes?

I also agree you with the EU comment, funny but I believe almost all except a few at Brussels and Strasbourg. Honestly I hate bashing the minority while assuming we all here belong to the majority, perhaps someone supporting EU could come and put us in order.

 

[kwakdonut]

I interpret this that you want the bikes to be saved but don't care about the cars.

I could even agree that it decreases the gain for bikes but do we have to compromise our safety in order not to reduce that for bikes?

I also agree you with the EU comment, funny but I believe almost all except a few at Brussels and Strasbourg. Honestly I hate bashing the minority while assuming we all here belong to the majority, perhaps someone supporting EU could come and put us in order.

I am both a biker and car driver - in my car I have 6 airbags and enough metal and technology to survive a possibly major accident. On my bike I have my leathers, helmet and the skills and sight to observe what is going on around me. No sat nav, no radio, no mobile phone just my intuition and to also treat everyone else on the road like a complete maniac!!!!!

Compromise car safety? Oh come on please........

No reason to have DRL.

People, lets just open our eyes and start to drive again, remember that?? You know, the thing you were taught to do many, many (for some of us!) years ago!!

Phone calls aren't important, you're make up isn't important, DRIVING IS IMPORTANT.

Thanks

 

[Diesel Benz]

I am both a biker and car driver - in my car I have 6 airbags and enough metal and technology to survive a possibly major accident. On my bike I have my leathers, helmet and the skills and sight to observe what is going on around me. No sat nav, no radio, no mobile phone just my intuition and to also treat everyone else on the road like a complete maniac!!!!!

Compromise car safety? Oh come on please........

No reason to have DRL.

People, lets just open our eyes and start to drive again, remember that?? You know, the thing you were taught to do many, many (for some of us!) years ago!!

Phone calls aren't important, you're make up isn't important, DRIVING IS IMPORTANT.

Thanks

So why don't we suggest a law that forces drivers to drive properly? You know that does not work, people will still be taking care of their make up etc.

By the way, I'm seriously claiming that a higher percentage of bikers are maniacs compared to those driving a car. In absolute figures it could be different and you must be a decent biker but that does not make them all equal.

Also you can have a navigator, HF phone system, radio etc. on a bike.

What about the "unfair" situation with cars against trucks/lorries and trains? I have 8 airbags but I still don't want to try my luck against a truck or train. We really don't want to survive from accidents, we want to avoid them where ever possible.

If it really is that dangerous to drive a bike among all the maniacs, I'm expecting EU to put a ban on biking pretty soon.

 

[Swiss Toni]

I find it really difficult to understand why so many of you (the english) are so against DRL's?!

DRL's saves lives. DRL's makes your car easier to be seen in strong sunlight. Even during a normal sunny day, a car with DRL's can be seen a few hundred meters before car that doesn't have it. Pedestrians can see you. Bikers etc can also see you.

Yes, it puts an additional strain on the alternator, but is so marginal that I doubt that anyone will see that it will cost them more money on fuel.

If fuel is such a concern, switch of air cond, make sure tyres are inflated properly, also switch of radio..... or why not stop driving altogether?

Both wife and I drive with our lights on (setup in onboard menu) permanently and looking at the number of cars on the roads with their lights on, they seem to be more and more.

Environment?! Pffff.... what is one life saved against some extra CO2?

Think about this way.... you are driving along, no lights. A truck comes, can't see you. BOOM. Wish you had the lights on?

I agree.

Seems odd to think folks objected to seatbelts, laughed at high-level brakelights and now allow Darwin another bite at the apple....

 

[kwakdonut]

So why don't we suggest a law that forces drivers to drive properly? You know that does not work, people will still be taking care of their make up etc.

It's called a 'Driving Licence' - a privilege, not a right. And it can be taken away

By the way, I'm seriously claiming that a higher percentage of bikers are maniacs compared to those driving a car. In absolute figures it could be different and you must be a decent biker but that does not make them all equal.

And you get these figures from where? Yes, I try to be a decent biker, like the majority of us!

Also you can have a navigator, HF phone system, radio etc. on a bike.

If you ride a Gold Wing, I do not!

What about the "unfair" situation with cars against trucks/lorries and trains? I have 8 airbags but I still don't want to try my luck against a truck or train. We really don't want to survive from accidents, we want to avoid them where ever possible.

Car v Lorry. Think I'd prefer my chances rather than BIKE v Lorry!!!

If it really is that dangerous to drive a bike among all the maniacs, I'm expecting EU to put a ban on biking pretty soon.

Best way for a biker to ride is to regard ALL road users as maniacs, I'm not saying that they are! And yes, I think the EU are slowly taking steps to ban biking all together. Just look at the joke of a new test they are trying to implement!

I am sure there are plenty of bikers amongst us who will agree with the majority of this!!

 

[HughJarse]

I am sure there are plenty of bikers amongst us who will agree with the majority of this!!

Lets not start a thread on the merits or otherwise of bikers, you ride a bike you take your chance. Youre obviously intelligent enough to way up the risks. You wanna put yourself on the road with a 17yr old chava whose popped an e and drank a bottle of cider then goes for a drive in his saxo then you do so, thats your choice. The idea of forcing a nation to drive with lights on when as stated earlier Austria has since dropped the law as the rate of bike accidents dramatically rose seems rather silly and small minded to me.

 

[kwakdonut]

Lets not start a thread on the merits or otherwise of bikers, you ride a bike you take your chance. Youre obviously intelligent enough to way up the risks. You wanna put yourself on the road with a 17yr old chava whose popped an e and drank a bottle of cider then goes for a drive in his saxo then you do so, thats your choice. The idea of forcing a nation to drive with lights on when as stated earlier Austria has since dropped the law as the rate of bike accidents dramatically rose seems rather silly and small minded to me.

I agree - am not intending to raise anything but awareness that bikers will be greatly affected if this half-assed, badly thought out directive is made law in the UK. I advocate common sense when using lights (it does appear that the newest bikes, mine included, already have DRL fitted. ie, I cannot turn off my dipped beam whilst the ignition is on).

And as a final comment from me, I really enjoy this forum as it is one of the few I've been on that really stimulates quality, sound debate!!

Let's keep it up!

 

[Leemc2008]

I'm a biker too.. all new motorcycles have DRL's.. my 2002 ZX636 doesnt, but IRRC bikes after 2003 do..

Seeing lights on in the daytime, I either know its a motorcycle or a Volvo!! I wouldnt want everyone to have lights on, there is just no need for it.