EV's . . . . No Surprise There Then . . .

[Big Janner]

Did anyone spot this?

Electric cars only greener than petrol after 50,000 miles

Electric cars have to travel as far as 50,000 miles to match the carbon footprint of a petrol model because of the massive amount of energy consumed during th

www.thetimes.co.uk

I know that you know, that there is a cost to EV production, but, this seems to be putting a considered measure on it.

 

[C240Sport97]

That’s just CO2.

what about all the nasty stuff that batteries are made of?

what about disposal of the batteries when they are end of life?

 

[markjay]

The key point about EVs is that they remove a significant source of pollution from city centres, and improve air quality. Noise pollution is also reduced.

The secondary point is that by centralising the energy production we could potentially switch everyone to a new energy source quite easily in future (e.g. nuclear, solar, wind, etc), because switching to a different energy source won't require making any changes to the cars themselves.

But switching to EVs will have no effect on road congestion, and probably will make only a small difference on overall life-cycle pollution.

 

[C240Sport97]

The key point about EVs is that they remove a significant source of pollution from city centres, and improve air quality. Noise pollution is also reduced.

but those vast SUVs and Teslas are on the motorways too

 

[flying haggis]

The key point about EVs is that they remove a significant source of pollution from city centres

what about all the buses and trucks then

 

[Teego]

what about all the buses and trucks then

Remember trolley - buses? Brilliant.

 

[PXW]

The report was an odd one; even though it was done by Polestar, it seemed to be more aimed at supporting traditional Volvos. One key factor is that the calculations they used did not account for the CO2 cost of production and distribution of traditional fuels - so the reality is that the distance to drive before the EV starts “winning” on CO2 is quite a bit less than the reports indicates.

I think everyone acknowledges that the CO2 cost of production of an EV is higher than a conventional vehicle, but the break even point (even on the Polestar dodgy data) is still substantially within the lifetime mileage of a car, so there is clear overall benefit in CO2 environmental impact terms.

 

[PXW]

That’s just CO2.

what about all the nasty stuff that batteries are made of?

what about disposal of the batteries when they are end of life?

the chemical composition of butteries is improving all the time - but don’t forget much of the same nasty stuff is also used as a catalyst in refining of conventional fuels.

End of life, the batteries are either recycled or repurposed - they are not just dumped.

 

[glojo]

I still cannot get my head around all this talk of pollution and its awful effects on our health. Airport workers, especially those that are close to large airliners, how come they do not all drop down dead? Look at footage of American aircraft carriers, how come those working on the flight decks do not die at a young age and yes, my first ship was an aircraft carrier (HMS Centaur)

Jets burn a derivative of diesel, there are no catalytic converters, no filtration of any type, just unadulterated pongy fumes ripping out of the back end of these jets and yes, the large airliners burn approximately 1.5 tons of fuel moving from the jetway to the runway, and then they overfly our cities with that 'pedal to the metal' dumping all that pollution unto our unsuspecting public. BUT WAIT....... Aren't aircraft exempt from all those that claim we will get to zero levels of pollution?? How gullible can we all be?

EV's the second coming... I think not but never let the truth stop our illustrious journalists from writing their stories.

 

[Deleted member 55947]

The key point about EVs is that they remove a significant source of pollution from city centres, and improve air quality. Noise pollution is also reduced.

Would it not make more sense to remove the need for city centre travel by distributing offices around various sites. Thanks to technology there's no need for company A to have it's HQ next to company B in a City centre. Imagine the rise in air quality if London was a city of shopping and tourism only

 

[MercedesDriver]

This metal is powering today's technology—at what price?

As demand soars for powerful batteries, Bolivia dreams of striking it rich by tapping its huge lithium deposit. But will its people benefit?

www.nationalgeographic.com

 

[Dryce]

I still cannot get my head around all this talk of pollution and its awful effects on our health.

Through my life I have been lectured that lifestyle will kill us - but at the same time life expectancy has risen.

Cancer ultimately gets more of us - simply because more if us survive to be killed by it.

Our cities are way nicer than they were back in the 60s and 70s. And yet we are told they are more and more terrible.

Sometimes I wonder if we have too many people paid to worry on our behalf.

 

[neilrr]

‘Why did it take nine hours to go 130 miles in our new electric Porsche?’

A Kent couple love their new car – but their experience suggests there are problems with the charging network

www.theguardian.com

 

[st13phil]

From the point of view of a simple Engineer, EV's (at least in their current and foreseeable forms) are a dead-end "solution".

The fundamental issue that needs to be addressed is poor energy density. People seem to have forgotten that mass is the enemy of motion efficiency. Excess mass means that you need more power to accelerate it, bigger brakes to decelerate it, bigger tyres that wear faster to support it, and stronger roads on which to drive it. It's insane to carry a heavy battery pack everywhere, and - despite the hopeful noises coming from the evangelists - the shift in battery technology that will deliver competitive levels of energy density doesn't exist, and is not "on the horizon" either.

The issues associated with battery production and decommissioning are also routinely overlooked. From the mining of exhaustible minerals, through to the safe disposal or re-purposing of toxic materials, all is being ignored (for the issues are currently intractable) on the altar of "reducing CO2". Utter madness.

 

[Gazwould]

Here's the ruined boot of the C300e hybrid estate .

 

[190]

It's interesting that an innovative company like Toyota have yet to put an EV on the market and it's certainly not the lack of capability that has stopped them. Their stated reason is they calculated selling a large number of hybrid cars would produce more reduction in emissions than a smaller number of EV's. Far more people can currently afford to buy a Toyota hybrid than a similar sized EV. When that changes perhaps they will start to sell an EV. This seems to me an honest approach which is lacking in the blinkered policy adopted in the all out push for EV's and the ban on hybrids although they did at least get a brief reprieve.

Someone needs to remember that the objective is to reduce emissions and perhaps allow the automotive industry to innovate rather than government prescribing a one size that doesn't and never will fit all solution.

 

[Petrol Pete]

Or maybe Toyota are just letting everyone else spend a fortune on developing EV's and they will jump in at a later date ?

 

[C240Sport97]

the chemical composition of butteries is improving all the time - but don’t forget much of the same nasty stuff is also used as a catalyst in refining of conventional fuels.

End of life, the batteries are either recycled or repurposed - they are not just dumped.

be interesting to see a comparison of all the nasty stuff involved in the production of fuel, batteries and end of life costs for EVs and ICEs

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

‘Why did it take nine hours to go 130 miles in our new electric Porsche?’

A Kent couple love their new car – but their experience suggests there are problems with the charging network

www.theguardian.com

I wonder why someone would contact the Guardian because they struggled to charge their new Taycan?

Ocado were all out of Beetroot Humous when I looked this morning, maybe I need to contact the Guardian.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

For now at least there continues to be a choice so for those who believe that an EV (or hybrid) is not for them - because th believe that they’re too expensive, the range is too short, there is insufficient charging infrastructure, landlords or building manager won’t allow a charging point, must park on the street, believe that they’re damaging to the environment to build and/or dispose of, they don’t fix the problem they just shift type problem, they’re not the answer just a stop gap, it would be a waste to buy one because hydrogen is coming, the boot is compromised, it wouldn’t work for their Summer trip to Cornwall, they’re dangerous on variable speed limit motorways without a hard shoulder, oh and EVs are part of the New World Order - then they can still continue to buy an ICE car.