Excessive front tyre wear on the outer shoulders

[6cyl]

I've changed over to my all season winter tyres today and noticed excessive front tyre wear on the outer shoulders, the middle and insides are fine. These are MO Conti Sport Contact 5s inflated to 2.4 bar.

Camber wrong (too positive) ? Perhaps something worn out ?

 

[6cyl]

I've found the last alignment report.

Fr
Caster 10d 48m, 10d 47m
Camber -0d 43m, -0d 43m
Toe 0d, 0d 9m

Rear
Camber -1d 17m, -1d 1m
Toe 0d 11m, 0d 14m

Thrust angle - 0d 1m

SAI 13d 50m, 14d

Since the outside is worn, does it suggest not enough negative camber? Looking at the min and max for front camber -1d 2m, -0d 19m, so my front camber is in spec, but is a lot close to the vertical, so will adding more negative camber solve the issue?

I understand there are fluted bolts available which can be used to correct the camber (A 000 330 00 18), there are also eccentric adjustable bolts from Powerflex, which are supposed to do the same job. PFA100-14.

I found quite a bit of info from here Castor Camber/Castor Fluted Adjustment Bolts Question. - MBWorld.org Forums

Is the info (still) applicable to our cars ?

 

[6cyl]

I've ordered 4 x 000 333 1071, camber correction bolts from MB Newcastle and contacted STS Tyre Pros in East Grinstead. They're listed in the WIM website as alignment partners trained by them.

I'm going to ask them to give me maximum negative camber within MB specs, so at least -1d hopefully or more if available on both sides.

Are there any other settings that can be tweaked to improve the handling ?

 

[wheels-inmotion]

Unusual to be camber on the outside... If the wear is smooth then yes, if it's feathered then it's toe angle.

In the event the camber does need to be adjusted i can offer a little tip. When moving the camber toward negative, with the front wheels on the ground undo the OEM wishbone bolts and the play will allow 15'-20' of adjustment without fitting an adjuster bolt.

 

[6cyl]

Hi Tony,
thanks for your input. The wear is smooth all the way round on both front tyres. I've ordered the camber bolts from MB already.

I don't know if the current geo has changed from the last time it was checked and adjusted, but I'm guessing it will benefit from having a tad more negative camber than -0d 43.

Are there optimum settings for the car within MB specs ? Or is there cause for going beyond their recommendations ?

 

[wheels-inmotion]

As you say a new image of the chassis is required but if it at or near the numbers you displayed then no more than another 10' to 15'... Point to remember camber is the most aggressive geometric angle a car has so if you go to far it's a whole world of hurt.

 

[zoros]

The question should be: Why has the standard tyre on a standard set up - worn? You should not be buying corrective kit unless you have messed with it in the past.

Take it to a proper 4 wheel laser alignment specialist and get them to follow the OEM spec?

 

[6cyl]

Zoros, when I bought the car, the front tyres exhibited similar wear, they were Conti SC3.

I had it aligned (with before & after printout) and new tyres fitted. The front camber values were more or less the same, - 43m. The only thing they really changed was the front caster was increased by 7m on both sides.

That was 15 months and 18k miles ago. The front tread is 5.5mm 5.5mm 5.0mm with the outside shoulder significantly worn. I'm not sure of the current geo settings, it myt be way out, if it is then I'll go with WIM recommendations and not go too far negative on the front camber. Approaching -1d should be ok, as it'll be within MB specs and about 15m extra.

I'll update once I have the geo settings measured and bolts installed. The car is going to STS Tyre pros.

 

[millbank]

I mentioned this a year a go on this site,when i bought E250,dealer told me i can only expect to get 12-15000 out of the tyres,as the rears would wear in the centre ,which they have and the fronts on the edges,but fronts are fine,so i switched them over, down to rear wheel drive and the engine torque,so the dealer said?

 

[6cyl]

I wish the wheels were the same width front and rear, not sure why MB decided to fit staggered wheel sizes on these cars, it's not a C63 ...

 

[Deleted member 6183]

I mentioned this a year a go on this site,when i bought E250,dealer told me i can only expect to get 12-15000 out of the tyres,as the rears would wear in the centre ,which they have and the fronts on the edges,but fronts are fine,so i switched them over, down to rear wheel drive and the engine torque,so the dealer said?

When I did big miles mine wore as described above, as a result I inflated the fronts to the max and the rears to the minimum (within the tolerances detailed inside the fuel flap).

Increased the wear to 40k (motorway) miles from a set of 4 tyres which wore evenly i.e. replaced all 4 at the same time.

 

[6cyl]

The rears on mine are wearing fine. It's the front tyres that I'm having issues with, they're inflated to 2.4bar all round. I find it harsh enough already, so I'm unlikely to pump them up even more to compensate.

 

[Deleted member 6183]

The rears on mine are wearing fine. It's the front tyres that I'm having issues with, they're inflated to 2.4bar all round. I find it harsh enough already, so I'm unlikely to pump them up even more to compensate.

Do you do a lot of town driving and/or roundabouts?

Could explain the type of wear that you experience.

 

[6cyl]

I'd say 60% town driving with lots of roundabouts, but the wear pattern is the same on the near and offside tyres. If it was the roundabouts causing it, then I'd expect the nearside tyres to be affected more. More telling that the previous pair of tyres, before I bought the car were the same, I insisted that they were changed and the alignment sorted before I took ownership. I'll find out soon enough if it needs extra front negative camber once the car is on the alignment machine.

I'm beginning to think I should make the trip to Amersham to see Tony.

 

[Dieselman]

I had it aligned (with before & after printout) and new tyres fitted. The front camber values were more or less the same, - 43m. The only thing they really changed was the front caster was increased by 7m on both sides.

You already have negative camber, so the wear should be the inside of the tyres, not the outside.

Increasing the caster will induce greater positive camber when the wheels are turned, which will wear the shoulder.

My suspicion is the all season tyres are showing their deficiency when cornering forces are high.

Are you using the power steering to turn the wheels at slow speed, or stationery?

 

[6cyl]

Dieselman
Wear is definitely on the outside of the Continental SC5. The all seasons winter tyres are new. I usually steer only when moving, my wife doesn't.



Just received the bolts from MB Newcastle today in the post. Unfortunately they only sent me two rather than the four I requested. I even repeated the order before putting the phone down.

Can I still get the camber adjustment that I'm after with just two the two bolts ? Are the other two to allow increased caster adjustment ?

 

[markjay]

...I'm beginning to think I should make the trip to Amersham to see Tony.

I believe he is actually in Chesham, but it is nearby...

 

[wheels-inmotion]

Dieselman is correct to much positive castor causes a camber roll-over on lock which would wear the outside of the tyres but a more negative camber will reduce the effect.

Remember what i said about releasing the OEM lower wishbone bolts, this will give 10' to 15' of negative camber movement whereas an adjuster bolt will give 20' to 30' which is a bit much.

 

[Dieselman]

Dieselman
Wear is definitely on the outside of the Continental SC5. The all seasons winter tyres are new. I usually steer only when moving, my wife doesn't.

Forget fitting the bolts, just retrain the Wife and the problem will go away.

 

[6cyl]

The grief I'll get if I tried that makes the cost of replacing the tyres pale into insignificance

We'll all have a clearer picture of what's going on once I get the numbers from the machine tomorrow, I'll decide under advice whether to make changes or not.