Formula 1 2020 (Will Contain Race Day Spoilers)

[GeeJayW]

Having spent the odd decade working with (and in some cases developing) flow-meters, I've always been a bit sceptical of the decision to include them in F1 as a key part of the regulations. Getting consistent, reliable, accurate and verifiable flow data from flow-meters is a tough gig. For instance, some examples that I played with in the past, the indicated flow rate was strongly influenced by fluid pressure.

Investigating what Ferrari may or may not have been up to would be a bit of a nightmare. Unless there was very clear evidence of rule breaking, it would be somewhat difficult and even unfair to prosecute them under the rules of F1.

It does seem that the teams know these systems very well (no surprise there of course) and maybe/probably better than the FIA officials. Hence Ferrari found a performance advantage. The other teams speculated that it may have been fuel flow related even though that shouldn't be possible due to the flowmeter. So after some head scratching they figure something out and before going there, ask the FIA for clarification of the rule on fuel flow. Ferrari then realise they are in the cross-hairs, stop whatever it is they may or may not have been doing and hey presto! said advantage seems to go away.

Subsequent investigation finds nothing that passes the 'duck' test. Ferrari don't want other teams to exploit possible loopholes in the fuel flow regulations, but being under suspicion aren't in a position to do that either. So next best thing (for Ferrari) is to assist the FIA to make sure nobody can take advantage, whilst not admitting at any time that they were doing anything wrong.

Now the issue is more about the lack of transparency and some sort of 'deal' between Ferrari and the FIA.

Makes a change from coronavirus I guess...

 

[Mactech]

Having spent the odd decade working with (and in some cases developing) flow-meters, I've always been a bit sceptical of the decision to include them in F1 as a key part of the regulations. Getting consistent, reliable, accurate and verifiable flow data from flow-meters is a tough gig. For instance, some examples that I played with in the past, the indicated flow rate was strongly influenced by fluid pressure.

Investigating what Ferrari may or may not have been up to would be a bit of a nightmare. Unless there was very clear evidence of rule breaking, it would be somewhat difficult and even unfair to prosecute them under the rules of F1.

It does seem that the teams know these systems very well (no surprise there of course) and maybe/probably better than the FIA officials. Hence Ferrari found a performance advantage. The other teams speculated that it may have been fuel flow related even though that shouldn't be possible due to the flowmeter. So after some head scratching they figure something out and before going there, ask the FIA for clarification of the rule on fuel flow. Ferrari then realise they are in the cross-hairs, stop whatever it is they may or may not have been doing and hey presto! said advantage seems to go away.

Subsequent investigation finds nothing that passes the 'duck' test. Ferrari don't want other teams to exploit possible loopholes in the fuel flow regulations, but being under suspicion aren't in a position to do that either. So next best thing (for Ferrari) is to assist the FIA to make sure nobody can take advantage, whilst not admitting at any time that they were doing anything wrong.

Now the issue is more about the lack of transparency and some sort of 'deal' between Ferrari and the FIA.

Makes a change from coronavirus I guess...

I think you are probably spot on!
...and I think I've been spot on in assuming your work would have had been in the Automotive sector and included calibration of some kind...

 

[Bellow]

Having spent the odd decade working with (and in some cases developing) flow-meters, I've always been a bit sceptical of the decision to include them in F1 as a key part of the regulations. Getting consistent, reliable, accurate and verifiable flow data from flow-meters is a tough gig. For instance, some examples that I played with in the past, the indicated flow rate was strongly influenced by fluid pressure.

..

Way back, Duckworth (I think) proposed fuel flow restrictors with freer engine regs. 'Make whatever power from whatever engine format within the flow capability of the restrictor' was more or less the thrust of his argument.
The FIA dismissed the idea as restictors could only be made with at best a +/- 5% tolerance. To me, the solution was obvious - matched pairs in parallel each flowing half as much but the the FIA were adamant (and surely someone must have proposed my suggestion).
Roll the clock forward a few decades......

 

[Stratman]

Given the 100kg fuel limit, why even bother with a flow meter? When it's gone it's gone. Let drivers decide how to use their allocation of dino juice and if they run out, too bad. They'll have learned a valuable lesson.

 

[Mactech]

Given the 100kg fuel limit, why even bother with a flow meter? When it's gone it's gone. Let drivers decide how to use their allocation of dino juice and if they run out, too bad. They'll have learned a valuable lesson.

What! Just like Group C back in the day, when we were given 510 litres to do a 1000kms race

 

[Stratman]

What! Just like Group C back in the day, when we were given 510 litres to do a 1000kms race

9 mpg isn't bad compared to modern 'efficient' F1 doing 6. Wssn't Group C responsible for the Mulsanne Straight no longer being straight? 400kph rings a bell

 

[Mactech]

9 mpg isn't bad compared to modern 'efficient' F1 doing 6.

Err....it’s about 5.5 mpg so not quite so good as current F1, but they were big ‘two seater’ 900kg cars. I’ve actually been passenger to a certain M Brundle around Silverstone in one, so they must be 2 Seaters
That was some ride, a lap in under 80 secs in 1988!

 

[Deleted member 113659]

Err....it’s about 5.5 mpg so not quite so good as current F1, but they were big ‘two seater’ 900kg cars. I’ve actually been passenger to a certain M Brundle around Silverstone in one, so they must be 2 Seaters
That was some ride, a lap in under 80 secs in 1988!

Aside from his driving abilities what’s Martin Brundle like as a person? I’ve always thought he comes across as a genuine nice and honest guy. I think he’s an invaluable member of the Sky F1 team.

 

[Stratman]

Doh!! I forgot to convert kilometres to miles

 

[Mactech]

Aside from his driving abilities what’s Martin Brundle like as a person? I’ve always thought he comes across as a genuine nice and honest guy. I think he’s an invaluable member of the Sky F1 team.

He is exactly as he comes across. I was his race engineer in 83' in his F3 battle with Senna, so we became more than just colleagues.
The disappointment of that title loss was to some degree offset in 1988 when we won the World Sportscar Championship together ..and then Le Mans in 1990.
He drove for me again at Bentley in 2001 and we remain good friends and motorcycling buddies to this day. He is exceptionally sharp with a wonderful, dry wit.

 

[GeeJayW]

I think you are probably spot on!
...and I think I've been spot on in assuming your work would have had been in the Automotive sector and included calibration of some kind...

I spent a few years working in diesel and gasoline fuel injection test equipment R&D, before moving to a research laboratory owned by one of the oil majors where for some 26-years or so I was mostly, but not exclusively involved with designing, managing or otherwise delivering automotive test engineering projects for fuels R&D.

 

[Nat]

No fans at Bahrain.

Bahrain Grand Prix: Fans banned because of coronavirus

An overreaction or the right thing to do?

 

[GeeJayW]

No fans at Bahrain.

Bahrain Grand Prix: Fans banned because of coronavirus

An overreaction or the right thing to do?

Probably the right thing IMHO.

With the lockdown in Italy, I wouldn't be surprised to see more than the odd cancellation/postponement. I guess one problem with the current calendar is that with so many events, finding alternative dates will be a nightmare.

 

[190]

An overreaction or the right thing to do?

It's not one of the biggest attendances anyway. Approx. 100,000 over the 3 days although I would think a high proportion will have flown there so it's going to cut down a lot of travel.

An over reaction ? The young and fit fans will say yes. Even if older fans are fit, they won't be so sure.

 

[Chrishazle]

Oh Dear, a few days ago on the PCGB forum a member posted that due to changed work commitments he had 7 full tickets for the Bahrein GP he could not use - practise, quali, race, IIRC paddock passes etc. Hope no-one bought any of them!

 

[Stratman]

FIA inquiry given all clear.....by FIA

Good to see that's all sorted then.



Motorsport's legislative body has backed Formula 1 officials' handling of the Ferrari engine controversy.

The FIA world council "expressed unanimous support" for the way FIA president Jean Todt and the technical department have managed the case.

The FIA has been strongly criticised by seven of the 10 F1 teams for making a confidential settlement with Ferrari.

The body has admitted suspicions Ferrari's engine was not always legal in 2019 but was unable to prove it.

The World Council also said that it "strongly opposed any comments that undermine the reputation and image of the FIA and the F1 World Championship".

 

[GeeJayW]

FIA inquiry given all clear.....by FIA

Good to see that's all sorted then.



Motorsport's legislative body has backed Formula 1 officials' handling of the Ferrari engine controversy.

The FIA world council "expressed unanimous support" for the way FIA president Jean Todt and the technical department have managed the case.

The FIA has been strongly criticised by seven of the 10 F1 teams for making a confidential settlement with Ferrari.

The body has admitted suspicions Ferrari's engine was not always legal in 2019 but was unable to prove it.

The World Council also said that it "strongly opposed any comments that undermine the reputation and image of the FIA and the F1 World Championship".

And Boeing happily signed off/self-certified the 737 Max. That turned out well too...

 

[baxlin]

And Boeing happily signed off/self-certified the 737 Max. That turned out well too...

And all those self-cert mortgages a few years ago.....

 

[MadMerx]

Err....it’s about 5.5 mpg so not quite so good as current F1, but they were big ‘two seater’ 900kg cars. I’ve actually been passenger to a certain M Brundle around Silverstone in one, so they must be 2 Seaters
That was some ride, a lap in under 80 secs in 1988!

I bet was an incredible experience to be in one of those cars with a talented driver! I can recall being at Brands Hatch for the 6-hour Group C race back in 1982 or 1983 when the first hour was behind the pace car due to rain and standing water. It then dried out and with surplus fuel they were quicker thru the speed trap on the start finish straight than the F1 cars of the same year! The Porsche 956 is still my favourite race car.

 

[Mactech]

I bet was an incredible experience to be in one of those cars with a talented driver!

'Incredible' doesn't really cover it
In low speed turns you can relate the sensation to a vehicle, abiet the fastest, grippiest thing you have ever felt.
But at high speed as the the downforce has increased with the square of the velocity, there is really nothing you can compare with the sheer violence of what happens.
On Hanger straight, I wondered why my head was being pulled through the windscreen at what seemed like half way down...and we were still doing well over 100mph through Stowe. 4g on the brakes is 4 times a violent as as any road car panic stop!
The lateral g in Club was insane, but did not prepare me for the brutal 4th gear acceleration towards Abbey, when Martin slotted 5th and planted it....
Abbey was flat in 5th and despite being well strapped in, the g forces got me very 'cosy' with my driver.
As an engineer, I reflected afterwards that:

• We must have been going quite quick in the middle of the straight.
• If the car 'unstuck' in Abbey, we would have ended in Northampton.
• I had a huge responsibility to ensure nothing did break on the cars.

Enjoy the F1 this weekend, but you really have no idea of the violence which the drivers endure in the cockpit, and then seem almost rational and sane when they are out of the car. A very special breed of athlete.