Front tyre wear, outside edge

[Dieselman]

it would be interesting to know what "official" distance is recognized in the UK for the MB's "eventual drift?"

About a yard I think.....


It would be interesting for Merc07 to try his car on a flat surface and one with opposite camber.

Mine used to pull left for a number of reasons but is very nearly neutural now. It wanders left on l/hcambers, right on r/h ones and slight left drift on flat.
Fighting the left hand pull is both tiring and unrewarding as it deadens steering feel.

 

[Bazzle]

About a yard I think.....


It would be interesting for Merc07 to try his car on a flat surface and one with opposite camber.

Mine used to pull left for a number of reasons but is very nearly neutural now. It wanders left on l/hcambers, right on r/h ones and slight left drift on flat.
Fighting the left hand pull is both tiring and unrewarding as it deadens steering feel.

This seems to be coming an even bigger issue as more and more cars are fitted with (non standard) lower profile tyres with less compliance in sidewalls thats helps a little.

Bazzle

 

[wheels-inmotion]

About a yard I think.....


It would be interesting for Merc07 to try his car on a flat surface and one with opposite camber.

Mine used to pull left for a number of reasons but is very nearly neutural now. It wanders left on l/hcambers, right on r/h ones and slight left drift on flat.
Fighting the left hand pull is both tiring and unrewarding as it deadens steering feel.

A yard is generouse!!

It's a real bum deal... Historically the complaints fall into two fields
1: Rapid tyre wear
2: A pull

Both can be addressed but not together due to the design of the chassis and indeed the method for correction.

All we can use is whats visible on the car in this thread.... Stagger the castor (minimal consequence) regarding tyre wear and manipulate the tyre pressures.

Seemingly this cars issues has been reduced but not resolved, am i happy "no" can i resolve this problem "yes" without concequence no.

 

[merc07]

Thanks, I'm going to keep a close eye on the trye wear over the next few weeks using a digital guage across 6 parts of the tread. Maybe a bit sad and over the top but it should show up any slight wear pattern pretty soon.

As for the chalk mark, good idea but I'll have to wait for the summer.

These are the readings for now, I'll put 33psi all round I reckon.
Note you already loose 2mm on the edge before you start !!

Cheers
Adam

 

[Rory]

The castor bolt is not under tension "happy days".... The camber bolt is tricky but not scary so i don't understand the local centres attitude?

The pull??

The reason for the pull is the road crown, so why the MB i hear you say?

On most cars the crown is absorbed by the tyres compliance and the suspension, technically both are able to adapt to the crowns attitude.

The MB's coils and pneumatic compliance denies this adoption and is literally steered by the crown.

Geometric stagger would belay this but it moves the calibration into the realm of tyre wear.

I can make the MB do anything handling wise but it's never without consequence if we move away from the OEM settings...

...and that's really why I've chosen to leave mine alone. I found on lane 3 contra-flows the car does indeed roll right, and driving across the crown of the road, the car runs straight.

I therefore think the car has a fundamental sensitivity to camber follow, and that while it could maybe be countered by making adjustments, other aspects of the cars performance might be affected.

My dealer told me some cars are worse than others and that mine was one of the better ones - in which case a bad one must be truely horrendous.

The solution is simple to me - my next car won't be a Mercedes.

 

[Dieselman]

These are the readings for now, I'll put 33psi all round I reckon.
Note you already loose 2mm on the edge before you start !!

Cheers
Adam

We've had this debate before but note how the passenger side rear tyre also loses tread faster towards the outside than the driver side tyre.

Other than cornering speeds and roundabouts I can't think why.

 

[merc07]

Not as much as the centers, so I'm not too concerned about them.

Rory - The main reason for the adjustment by WIM was because of the state of the wear on the tyre -

I couldn't put another set on and just leave it, or even worse, get it mucked up by Mercedes again.

I just hope they now wear more evenly between drivers/passenger. If they both wear on the edges then fine.

The pull must have been one of the 'Very Bad' ones. Now I guess it's like yours.

Cheers
Adam

 

[Rory]

Rory - The main reason for the adjustment by WIM was because of the state of the wear on the tyre -

I couldn't put another set on and just leave it, or even worse, get it mucked up by Mercedes again.

I just hope they now wear more evenly between drivers/passenger. If they both wear on the edges then fine.

The pull must have been one of the 'Very Bad' ones. Now I guess it's like yours.

As I mentioned earlier, my front tyres have worn just the same as yours, but they've lasted a lot longer as I really only the use the car for long motorway trips. They'll have to be changed soon due to what was the NSF outer edge wearing smooth - but for that, the tyres would have plently of life in them (done 35k now).

I would say the pull - or I think roll is a more accurate word and the lock rolls on as the car pulls further and further left (or right, on right cambered roads) - *is* bad on my car. However, simply swapping the tyres over has all but corrected it for left cambers, but made it worse of right cambers.
That, to my mind, just further points to the car's extreme road camber sensitivity.

 

[merc07]

Looks like I'm the guinea pig here then. Time will tell.....

Cheers
Adam

 

[wheels-inmotion]

We've had this debate before but note how the passenger side rear tyre also loses tread faster towards the outside than the driver side tyre.

Other than cornering speeds and roundabouts I can't think why.

This phenomenon is normal in the UK since the radii for all the tyres is different when the car turns.

Historically it's the outside of the nearside front that sufferers the most.

 

[deveritt]

I am going through the same thing, but I have also done a little more research and I would suggest that you stay away from laser-alignment as they are not good enough. I found http://www.alignmycar.co.uk/ as a source to locate ProAlign equipment. Merc garages use http://www.beissbarth.co.uk/ but I cannot find a way to locate who has them .. I have written to them asking for them to add this.

The local Merc garage told me a geometry test and alignment is 2 hours at £150 an hour + VAT. I fainted.

The local garage with ProAlign tools who can do a simple alignment but with the right tools quoted me £35 +VAT ...

So, all are right, choose a good tyre shop (not Kwickfit as they do not have tools) .. research on the web for garages with either http://www.beissbarth.co.uk/, http://www.pro-align.co.uk or http://www.jbeg.net/en/Default.asp equipment and they should be able to help.

 

[msb]

Wow, this is a long thread. I am 'comfortable' with the camber situation on the front, but on my w203 with Sport pack and 245/17 tyres on the rear, the inside is wearing out more that the rest - about 1mm diffrence between the inside and outside on both rear tyres. Is this normal, or is there some check/adjustment I should do? You do notice that there is a negative camber when you look at the rear of the car, but is there a visual or simple meaurement I can make to see if that camber is about right? Gratful for any comments, as these tyres are expensive !

 

[Dieselman]

You can measure camber reasonably accurately with a virticle spirit level and tape measure or a plumb bob and piece of board to make a camber gauge.

 

[Fredhead]

My 54 Reg C270 estate is exactly the same. I'd almost say it drives left, rather than pulls or drifts. Dealer says it's fine - says in fact mine is better than most. If that's the case then I'd hate to drive a bad one.

I swapped the front wheels over myself and that made it somewhat better, but I expect that's just the extra wear that was on the nearside and is now on the offside and is tending to offset the pull a little bit.

I've given up with mine and both the issue and the dealer telling me it's normal (they wouldn't even check the alignment) has put me off having another Mercedes - it makes the car tiring on long journeys (which is all I use the car for) as I'm fighting with it all the time.

I though that this was a problem that only I was facing. I have a 1998 W210 (E280). I bought it about 6 months ago and has always pulled to the left. I had the alignment and wheel balance performed 4 times in the first month of buying it, including a 4 wheel alignment. It was slightly better after changing one of the tyres. The problem soon recurred and is now very bad.

The car pulls heavily to the left which is a strain on motorway driving (which I mostly do) as I have to keep a continuous pull to the right.

I thought the problem might go away with new tyres, but if its the car that's the problem, my moneu would have been wasted.

I have been thinking about using lower filling pressures on the right side tyres. This may help I think.

Any ideas anybody?

 

[Dieselman]

Have 'proper' 4 wheel alignment performed.
This is likely to be either a rear tracking problem or front camber/caster.

 

[msb]

Dieselman, thanks for that. Now I may be being thick, but when i do my spirit level thing, what angle(?) am I measuring?

 

[Dieselman]

Vertical from the top of the rim to the bottom. Hold the level against the rim and ensure it is vertical. This will mean the level leaves the top of the rim but stays touching the bottom of the rim as you have negative camber.
Measure the clearance and work out the angle.
For a 16" rim each degree is 3.54mm if my maths is correct.

 

[Number_Cruncher]

...if my maths is correct.

I think you might be a factor of 2 wrong somewhere DM.

>> theta=pi/180;
>> r=16*25.4;
>> s=r*theta

s =

7.0930

The other thing to note in making this measurement is that few of us have access to accurately levelled floors. To compensate, repeat the measurement with the wheel at the same place, but the car pointing in different directions, and average the result.

 

[wheels-inmotion]

Just as a "heads up" guys since i see you are heavily into the math now.... The issue regarding the pull is not nececerally the actual camber/ castor positions it's the disparity between them over the axle. Any more than 30' for both will generate a pull...

Camber
NSF: more positive
OSF: more negative

Castor
NSF: less
OSF: more

Although i'm yet to see castor measured with string or spirit levels i'm sure it's possible!

 

[Dieselman]

>> theta=pi/180;
>> r=16*25.4;
>> s=r*theta

s =

7.0930

Isn't that saying the distance over the wheel radius but still using the wheel diameter as the measurement.?

16" wheel so circumferance = 16*25.4*pi= 1276mm
therefore each degree is 1276/360 = 3.54mm.

If each degree was 7.093mm then 360 degrees would be 2553mm.

Am I doing this wrong.?