garage overtightened Wheel Nuts Locking nut sheared

[markjay]

Our Vito didn't have them from new (factory 17" alloys) ... so was adding them a 'modification'?!

As far as I am aware the locking wheel bolts are a UK thing - they are in fact not factory-fitted to the car, but an aftermarket option fitted by the local dealers prior to delivery of the vehicle to the customer. My understanding is that in other European countries the cars are simply supplied with no locking wheel bolts.

 

[bob6600]

As far as I am aware the locking wheel bolts are a UK thing - they are in fact not factory-fitted to the car, but an aftermarket option fitted by the local dealers prior to delivery of the vehicle to the customer. My understanding is that in other European countries the cars are simply supplied with no locking wheel bolts.

Is that practice used by MB only? I have known at least one manufacturer that fits them in production.

As for the grease on the bolts, I never did it in the past but if it helps me undo a bolt when stranded then it's worth it.

I am talking a very tiny amount. I am not arguing against the experts (WIM etc) but it works for me

 

[markjay]

Is that practice used by MB only? I have known at least one manufacturer that fits them in production.

As for the grease on the bolts, I never did it in the past but if it helps me undo a bolt when stranded then it's worth it.

I am talking a very tiny amount. I am not arguing against the experts (WIM etc) but it works for me

I know that Vauxhall and MB do this, not sure about other manufacturers. The giveaway is the retail box in the boot with the Retail Part Number on it, and four empty spaces next to the key. This is an aftermarket accessory.

As for copper grease, I used to apply a very thin layer when wheel bolts were still tightened by hand... but since I started using a torque wrench many years ago I no longer do that.

Said that... the same should apply to spark plugs which should be fitted dry, yet when I removed the original factory-fitted Bosch spark plugs from my Vauxhall Omega V6 engine... they had a coat of copper grease.

So while I personally moved from the apply-copper-grease-to-anything-you-might-want-to-undo-one-day camp to the fit-dry-and-tighten-to-torque camp, I do accept that it is not a clear cut case.

 

[whitenemesis]

I imagine the factory apply a correction factor to the torque values if using a controlled amount of lube. Usually to aide speed of assembly. One couldn't expect Joe Public to be so consistent?

 

[Iceviolet]

It is perfectly acceptable and good practice to lubricate threads. For one it helps prevents galling from occurring and prevents corrosion. It also reduces the amount of input torque needed to achieve the desired tension or bolt load.
So you do need to adjust the torque value applied to the bolt when using certain types of lubrication as the coefficient of friction is different for different products, for example a dry thread will be approximately 0.2 dependent on materials and a good Moly based grease will provide a coefficient of 0.1.
Therefore a torque value should always be given with information on lubrication type to allow for these adjustments. So if the manufacturer gives a torque value for an unlubricated bolt then use that and do not lubricate the bolt.
I agree that the wheel/hub face should not be greased at all, it just need to be as clean as possible.

 

[optimusprime]

Never had one wheel bolt stick for me . Every car i have had , i put a little grease on the wheel bolts .I know some will frown at this but my bolts will allways be removable.at any time.

 

[Iceviolet]

Out of curiosity I checked what it says on WIS. See PDF images attached.
Last page at the bottom on the left.
If you apply any lubricant to threads your wheels will fall off!!! So grease your bolts at your own peril!

 

[bob6600]

I imagine the factory apply a correction factor to the torque values if using a controlled amount of lube. Usually to aide speed of assembly. One couldn't expect Joe Public to be so consistent?

Yes I agree, but it has to be more consistent than all those people who don't use a torque wrench, which I would say would be fairly high

 

[bob6600]

@OP apologies we seemed to have derailed your thread

I have decided I will remove my locking nuts as I don't think anyone will be stealing my crappy alloys

 

[190]

Removing the locking nuts solves the problem in that much of the auto trade can carry on grossly over torqueing wheel bolts but at least they will come off again if you jump on the wheel wrench.

I liked the picture showing corrosion and galling on the seating face of the wheel bolts and will continue to use copper anti-seize on that area as well as just a little on the threads with reduced torque settings and risk the wheels falling off. They never have in 40 odd years but I realise the manufacturers could never consider ant-seize acceptable.

I have to admit I'm a sparkplug anti-seize user too. The very long service intervals on spark plugs especially the ones with very long threads in modern use are asking for trouble although I hear some plugs now have an anti-seize coating of some sort from new.

 

[John]

Locking wheel bolts will stop the opportunist really - which has a lot of parallels in life.

Things like locks, CCTV, dogs - all defeated easily by the pros but not necessarily the non-pro / opportunist.

Having never greased wheel bolts, and always loosened / re-torque'd mine up to 130nm as per the manual, I've recently had all 5 bolts work loose on one particular wheel recently for the first time ever.

Caught me by surprise so I won't be greasing them!

I've often wondered if 130nm is too much for locking wheel bolts but I've never had one sheer yet that wasn't cause by over-tightening by a garage which I was trying to rectify.

I now instruct my tyre fitter to torque them to the same.

 

[whitenemesis]

Don't forget to check with your insurance company, they may have the requirement you have security bolts fitted

 

[Dogbreath]

Has the OP checked the other bolts to see what they have been torqued up at ?

 

[modelman093]

Copper grease, steel bolt, alloy wheel - a receipt for electrolytic corrosion!

 

[markjay]

Copper grease, steel bolt, alloy wheel - a receipt for electrolytic corrosion!

Maybe so, though I must say, that during the years when I was using copper grease on wheel bolts (which I no longer do), I never had an issue with neither bolts working themselves loose nor corrosion of any sort.

 

[rorf]

Copper grease, steel bolt, alloy wheel - a receipt for electrolytic corrosion!

Absolute nonsense - being using it for the last 30 years

130Nm is crazy - 110Nm is the standard and ensure correct bolts are used.

 

[whitenemesis]

Check your owner's manual torque settings range from 110-130Nm depending on model.

 

[sprinter316]

A culture of blame, maybe the garage did over tighten them , but the owner driver should have had them rechecked after a 50 miles or so,

My garage has 8 torque wrenches and I always torque to spec,i offer to retorque if customer brings it back, it's very rare to see one return,

That said the large tyre outfits , not naming names have shocking standards,

 

[John]

130Nm is crazy

You need to advise Mercedes Benz then. They obviously have no idea what they are talking about in that case.

 

[KennyN]

Never bothered with torque settings , i use the colour of my neck to determine the tightness :

From shell pink , which is a wee nip to Crimson Lake , which is seriously tight.

If you get to Deep Brown you have strained too hard and followed through.

Kenny