HELP - Motor Trader Advice needed

[Will]

Will....yes I fully agree with you on the fact the battery failure would not be unreasonable for a 5 year old car.....but the warranty clock STARTS when YOU make the purchase...albeit a far shorter period of warranty than a new car........the Sale of Goods Act has been the main reason most established car traders steer clear of the "clearance" (bangers) items as the "fit for purpose" issue still applies...it is either fit for purpose or not....they just trade them or shove them through the Auctions...far less hassle...

Of course, but no trader is going to take a 5 year old/72k mile car and revert it to 'as new' condition.

You get some recourse as a private buyer through the sale of goods act, but it's a bit of a grey area, as has been mentioned.

If the engine blew or the gearbox went under normal use, or there was another serious fault with the car then you would reasonably expect the dealer to pick up the tab. Batteries and springs are non-major, wear and tear items - consumables with a finite lifespan - you expect to replace these over the years. You can't expect that every item on a 72k mile car to be 'as new' and last as long as they would on a brand new car. This is one of the reasons why older cars are cheaper - they have less of a lifespan than a new one, and require more maintenance

It's difficult to say exactly when a spring snapped, that's why I asked about the MOT date. It's obviously quite possible that these items wore out over the last 5k miles.

How about if the trader was to offer to repair the car with two more old springs and a used battery? I'm not sure he's obliged to provide brand new ones due to betterment.

Not trying to play devil's advocate - just providing a realistic and impartial viewpoint It doesn't seem as though anything terrible has happened in this case so far.

Will

 

[andy_k]

I'd agree with some of the comments about it being hard to determine when the springs broke - maybe you'll have to take that one on the chin.

however, for a battery to last less than 5 weeks from when you bought the car would certainly seem unreasonable.

I'd go back to the dealer, ask him to put a new 'brand name' and therefore guaranteed battery on, get your indi to fix the springs and avoid that particular trader in future

 

[recycled]

But if your springs are broken, surely you will feel it when driving 5k miles.

A mates mondeo broke its spring, and he could not get it out of the car park, never mind 5k miles. Alas it was the front one.
As for the battery, is it affecting anything in the car? or is your indy trying it on?

There are some garages that try to sell you stuff you do not need. Did they show you the broken springs?

 

[jaymanek]

Springs normally chip at the ends, you wouldnt notice under normaly driving... not safe though so best to get them done asap.

Muggy - You are correct that the trader has responsibility for the mechanicals of the car.. however you have to remember that this is a used car and normal maintenance costs are always down to the owner..

If you can prove that the car was unfit for sale at the time of purchase then you have a case.

If not I suggest you do not waste your time.

Ronnie - God help the person you buy a car off. I consider myself to be more than reasonable. i spend a lot of money and time on warranty work and most of the time ill do anything to keep the customer happy.
However in this case, If muggy were my customer, I would inspect the car but suspect the answer to be a firm no due to the miles involved. (Plus id be certain on the condition of my cars as we do a full inspection before)

 

[Ronnie]

Springs normally chip at the ends, you wouldnt notice under normaly driving... not safe though so best to get them done asap.

Muggy - You are correct that the trader has responsibility for the mechanicals of the car.. however you have to remember that this is a used car and normal maintenance costs are always down to the owner..

If you can prove that the car was unfit for sale at the time of purchase then you have a case.

If not I suggest you do not waste your time.

Ronnie - God help the person you buy a car off. I consider myself to be more than reasonable. i spend a lot of money and time on warranty work and most of the time ill do anything to keep the customer happy.
However in this case, If muggy were my customer, I would inspect the car but suspect the answer to be a firm no due to the miles involved. (Plus id be certain on the condition of my cars as we do a full inspection before)

Jay...I have been known to be difficult at times !! But believe me it works, too many rogues taking the Michael....and they get away with it because too many customers not willing to complain....
As you quite rightly say, you would know the condition of the car before it went out, a lot of traders dont...and dont even care...

 

[A210AMG]

Sounds like the trader isn't the type that was that bothered and begs the question why he was used, but hey its done now and with new springs / battery it will hopefully be good for many many more miles.

Was it a trader from home or garage? Did you drive the car and collect it from the trader when bought it.

To me if you had only done a few hundred miles you have a chance but given nearly 5000 miles being honest I would expect a no from him. Its still worth a try as if you don't ask you don't get. You have to be fair and resonable as much as he does.

You say you do motorway miles etc but you still have to get to the motorways, A roads, B roads and even motorways have potholes.


Good luck and let us know how you get on.

 

[glojo]

I would be amazed if any mechanic could submit a metallirgy report that would prove beyond a reasonable doubt that those springs were broke at the time of purchase.

This is a second hand car which has done a lot of miles since being purchased, and if you had wanted to be sure ofthe condition then perhaps you might have considered a decent inspection prior to purchase.

Buying a second-hand vehicle is a gamble and some folks tend to try and buy a car at a bargain price.....

Yes there is the sale of goods act and why not either go to the Citizens Advice Bureau or pay for legal advice?

It will cost more than the price of the repair and it will cost you time, hassle and aggaravation

 

[Carrotchomper]

Good to see you back John!

I fully agree here, I'm afraid. £330 is not a great deal in the scheme of things. Annoying, but a very small percentage of the car's purchase cost.

If you take this to court you will be chucking good money after bad. IMHO.

 

[SilverSaloon]

as with others, you've done 5k since purchase - plenty of time for loads of wear n tear things to wear down/break. not really fair to expect the dealer to foot the bill IMO.

you decided not to get an inspection done when you purchased it - its different if within 500 miles you noticed some issues, but 5k is a lot of miles before a complaint. its a 2nd hand car and will come with plenty of issues that may be ready to show their ugly head - who knows!? thats what the warranty is for. if its not covered under the warranty and a reasonable amount of miles have been covered then its up to the buyer to foot the bill IMO. if you wanted a brand new car then thats what you should have purchased.

get it fixed yourself and continue to enjoy the car.

i suspect the dealer may offer something out of goodwill.... if they are good they might.

 

[MUGGY]

Just found this below from Rory under another thread. What do you think ?

I have an interest in consumer matters but am not a lawyer etc.

I'm not aware of that of any statutory 3mth warranty.

The only time limit is that any fault found within 6mths is presumed to have been present when the car was sold. After 6mths it's up to the buyer to prove the fault was pre-existing.

So in law you effectively have 6mths warranty. However, in the event of a dispute whch goes to courts, the courts will take into account the vehicle's age and the price paid - I've seen comments that under £2000 in considered to be a banger these days! You cannot expect to buy a cheap car and have it repaired FOC for 6mths.

 

[BTB 500]

Incidentally ...

I didn't see Will's question about the MOT answered? I would expect any dealer to sell a 5 year old car with a full 12 months MOT, which would effectively prove that the springs weren't broken then.

 

[MUGGY]

The MOT is due in July.

The issue is now resolved to my satisfaction.

I took the car to the Trader for inspection this morning and have just had a call from their Sales Director.

We have agreed that they will get the springs done and I will contribute £75 towards the cost. I didn't pursue the battery issue.

Many thanks to all who have contributed. I am happy that a bill for circa £250 to replace the springs has been reduced to £75 :bannana:

 

[Will]

Sounds very fair to me

Will

 

[SilverSaloon]

yep sounds fair.... good on the dealer.

 

[BTB 500]

Good result, well done!

Wouldn't personally buy any car from a dealer without a fresh MOT though.

 

[MUGGY]

Good result, well done!

Wouldn't personally buy any car from a dealer without a fresh MOT though.

Cheers !

I think you are right about the fresh MOT though. Live and learn I suppose. It's just that by the time you get to my age you would have thought that some of these basic lessons would have been learnt. I guess I have been lucky with the cars I have bought which may have made me a little more trusting than I should have been.

 

[Dieselman]

We have agreed that they will get the springs done and I will contribute £75 towards the cost.

That's probably cost price on the springs. You pay the parts, they pay the labour.
Not unreasonable.

 

[jaymanek]

A very good outcome overall.

We often come to this arrangement too.

Recently had a nissan micra with a stretched timing chain... wear and tear and a very common issue.
Customer paid for the chain and tensioner, we did the work. He was happy and so were we...

 

[Vlad]

I kind of feel sorry for the dealer...ie many comments assuming that he was a dodgy trader, but then he comes up trumps and does the decent thing...good on him and good result for Muggy.

Just picking up on some of the comments or advice being made.....just amazes me nowadays how everybody bangs on about sales of goods act...I'm going to sue you....I've been to Citizens Advice....I want compo......

 

[Vlad]

A very good outcome overall.

We often come to this arrangement too.

Recently had a nissan micra with a stretched timing chain... wear and tear and a very common issue.
Customer paid for the chain and tensioner, we did the work. He was happy and so were we...

Bleedin Micra's......isn't it booked as being a 10 hour job or something crazy!