Hi is this a Rip or what

[Rory]

Mmm. I think so too. By all means feel free to PM me if you want to discuss this offline Rory.

Not much to say really, they've never done anything particularly terrible, but they've never done anything good either - it's like you say, really, they just don't seem bothered. I was quite bemused by them writing the wrong year in my service book, then telling me I could buy a new one for a fiver if it bothered me!

Nothing new - I've been going there for 4 years and they've always been like that.

 

[Smiley]

Why would you use a Vet to service your car??? ................

Is that some sort of adjustable spanner?

 

[Smiley]

I am not a car dealer or an accountant but there are several dealership here in the South-West that have recently gone into receivership.

It would be easy to suggest that if they lowered their prices then they would not go skint, but my guess is they had already thought of that?

I dread to think of the overheads that are incurred just to open the doors of these large complexes??

Who mentioned Veterinary Surgeons and their costs?

John, you have hit the nail on the head - the problem is the overheads and then margin on top of the fully loaded costs. The OH recovery rate on these glass palaces must be unbelievable when expressed as a % of the total service business revenue - I cant think of any other revenue stream that they have to recover those overheads - margins on new and used car sales will not cover it.

 

[wxmclk]

Not much to say really, they've never done anything particularly terrible, but they've never done anything good either - it's like you say, really, they just don't seem bothered. I was quite bemused by them writing the wrong year in my service book, then telling me I could buy a new one for a fiver if it bothered me!

Nothing new - I've been going there for 4 years and they've always been like that.

Yes it sounds like "them" to me. Mine been back and to for minor niggles under warranty. Routine things like replacing obviously defective speakers seems to baffle them. It isn't rocket science so far as I can see, but they seem to see things differently........

 

[Spinal]

I will never cease being amazed by the labour rates of main dealer mechanics. I thought they were nearer £100/hour, which even that is too high.

I work in an engineering consultancy which has significant IT overheads and senior engineers with PhD's are charged out at £80/hour I believe.

That's quite well priced... we pay our consultant (well, the company we hire our consultant from) "just" £400 an hour, and that's considered a "friendly" rate as we buy large amounts of equipment from the same company...

My doctor gets paid £300-something for a 30-minute consultancy every time I go visit. Fine, he is a specialist.... but I am also quite accident prone, and my insurance company must really dislike me...

The lawyer that almost my entire family uses charges in the range of £300/400 pounds an hour as well, billed by the hour... so the simples to things ends up consting a hefty sum...

M.

 

[DC_insider]

If I remember well, my dealer's standard charge is £195 per hour for labour

I can't believe that figure. It might be over a year since I left MB Retail which owned the Uxbridge/Heathrow dealer but labour rates were nothing like £195 per hour.

The highest labour rate (for normal MB cars) was Chelsea which was about £125 per hour.

The actual highest rate we charged was at the SLR Service Centre (manned by ex-McLaren mechanics) which was about £150 per hour.

 

[wemorgan]

That's quite well priced...

In my opinion professional engineers are cracking value or is it simply that they're undervalued?

 

[Rory]

Maybe they're Uxbridge rates, which I've no doubt is a more expensive place than Chester, but we use all of those service too and don't pay within a million miles any of those rates.

 

[grober]

Wonder what "hourly rate" the mechanics working on your Mercedes car in a dealership get paid?

 

[Phil Thomas]

Wonder what "hourly rate" the mechanics working on your Mercedes car in a dealership get paid?

Well now, let us do some rough calculations. When I worked in the Civil Service the Treasury calculated the hourly cost by dividing the annual rate by 42 and then 52 (i.e. assuming you had no leave etc. and that you had no meal breaks). This gave a conveniently low rate to work out overtime rates. They reckoned that in rough terms the cost to the Treasury was about double that allowing for accommodation and so on.

OK, so let us back calculate from the basic £108 (ex VAT) an hour charged in Blackburn. If the dealer gets 100% on cost for profit, the hourly cost to the dealer is about £54. This would give the mechanic £27 an hour if the overheads were wages plus 100%. This would give something in the region of £59k a year for the mechanic. (I volunteer if that be the case!)

I used to have to work 42 hours a week for 52 weeks, but with 6 weeks annual leave, covering 24 hours a day every day of the year in a complex shift pattern that was applied flexibly in that I was required to required to attend to meet the perceived risk on the day, and to stay on duty without notice if required. (I once was on duty for 40 hours in one spell.) In AD 2000 I was paid £34k per annum. I doubt that the MB mechanics get anything like that even now. And bear in mind that this very approximate calculation allows them a gross profit of £54 an hour, even if the wage rates were as high as that.

Weep not for the dealer my friends.

 

[simon22]

wish i had a job that paid that well, i could by a coupe version(clk) for everyday use ..lol

 

[Dryce]

Weep not for the dealer my friends.

It's not so simple. The business charges for 'hours' which are quite notional.

The rate includes unutilised time in the workshop and all staff, it includes an allocation to support staff, admin/accounts/management, employer's NI, heat, light, insurance, training, sickness/absence, rent & rates, stocking charges, advertising/branding, contingency/mistakes, discounts.

If your car gets put on a test rig that costs the business thousands and gets used few hours per week you don't get charged for that, it's smoothed into that 'hour' rate.

If the job requires the most expensively trained and highly paid mechanic the rate is still the same as that where the job was mainly done by the least experienced novice.

 

[gina2201]

If my car cost that much to service, I'd just use that money to buy another car, or two, or three for that money!

Ok I know mine's considered an old banger but still, those prices are shocking!

 

[Phil Thomas]

It's not so simple. The business charges for 'hours' which are quite notional.

The rate includes unutilised time in the workshop and all staff, it includes an allocation to support staff, admin/accounts/management, employer's NI, heat, light, insurance, training, sickness/absence, rent & rates, stocking charges, advertising/branding, contingency/mistakes, discounts.

If your car gets put on a test rig that costs the business thousands and gets used few hours per week you don't get charged for that, it's smoothed into that 'hour' rate.

If the job requires the most expensively trained and highly paid mechanic the rate is still the same as that where the job was mainly done by the least experienced novice.

Well I did allow 100% of the wages to cover those and then gave them 100% profit margin! In the case of the Civil Service we included leave and sick leave, training courses, NI, accommodation costs, pensions (non contributory), management etc. I recognise it is a broad brush, but the point is that the difference between the charge out rate and the wage rate is enormous. We had a charge out rate too, but it was double what we received, not something like 6 times!

 

[Dryce]

I recognise it is a broad brush, but the point is that the difference between the charge out rate and the wage rate is enormous. We had a charge out rate too, but it was double what we received, not something like 6 times!

I think what I overelaborated is that the 'hour' is not much to do with the mechanic. It's to do with the business as a whole - hence the 'hour' is notional.

It's also worth taking into account that this is 'hourly' and not daily. Most business charge a significantly higher amount per hour than per day.

And not all 'hours' are charged at full rate either. Warranty and Service Plus work will be done at lower internal rates. Some customers will be given a discount.

The real test of this is to ask what is the profit margin at a real dealership, and in particualr its service department.

 

[simon22]

Hi have just phoned Whiefield Mercedes Benz for a B Service , and im having a stiff Whisky now quoted me ,,sit down,are you Ready
B Service £325.00 , then £280 for Spark Plugs and £170 for 3 filters thats £775.00 +vat.........

i can buy top of the Range NGK Iridum park plugs x 4 for £60.00 , so im affraid my mercedes if not have mercedes benz stamp it will be having a stamp off my mechanic who as been going for 40yrs and in is passed work for Bmw for 10yrs in service and left to start is own bussiness.

£280 for 4 plugs is this for Real are they gold plated...........

Paul at Whitefrield Mercede Benz

See New Post .....

My Car has just gone for B Service, Following on from * Is this a Rip or what *

 

[w124coupe]

My method (I do a lot of miles in my second E-class V6 CDI) is this:

Always call all 3 local dealers for the base A or B service price - 1 is always doing some kind of offer so that's the base price for my chosen dealer. They are aware of each others' deals so getting this price (or less) is simple.

Then reveal I will be supplying the oil (my car is a DPF model so I always use the extended mileage high spec oil). Mobil 1 ESP from Costco or Ebay saves £75-80 versus the dealer price every service (I get it delivered 16 litres at a time so enough for 2 services). 5 mins to buy online and 2 mins to sling in the boot for 2 x £75 saving is good value to me....

I have read the maint book so I know when fuel, air con, air filters, brake fluid are needed and how much the parts/fluids retail for - so should they when they enter your reg and mileage!!

When the call comes in saying "now its on Star, we find it needs x, y and z" I always:

1. decline the easy filters (e.g. air con/combi, air) and fit those myself - 30 mins tops for both - and buy them at 10% discount when I pick the car up - keep receipts in the manual folder. I clean up under the bonnet while I'm there!

2. accept the fuel filter or brake fluid (SBC car) etc (as I can't be bothered to disrupt another work day to also go to Star indie) but always politely argue that there must be a deal on the combined labour as the car is already in mid air with the wheels off and connected to Star etc so the "book" value is over-inflated - they ALWAYS agree and change the quote significantly.

If you have non-dealer service you lose Mobilo so about £100 per year needs to be factored in for the top RAC or AA cover instead - i.e. with Homestart and Relay - (or £300-400 if you break down on the M1 and have to pay just once for recovery).

I have used mobilo 3 times so far (failed resonance flap, stuck gearchange interlock, failed key). Interlock fixed there and then (the AA or RAC would not have fixed this roadside), the other 2 free recovery to Merc garage and then me to home.

This works for me and I find it straightforward and it doesn't get me wound up!

I also believe I get reasonable value......

 

[Benzowner]

Well now, let us do some rough calculations. When I worked in the Civil Service the Treasury calculated the hourly cost by dividing the annual rate by 42 and then 52 (i.e. assuming you had no leave etc. and that you had no meal breaks). This gave a conveniently low rate to work out overtime rates. They reckoned that in rough terms the cost to the Treasury was about double that allowing for accommodation and so on.

OK, so let us back calculate from the basic £108 (ex VAT) an hour charged in Blackburn. If the dealer gets 100% on cost for profit, the hourly cost to the dealer is about £54. This would give the mechanic £27 an hour if the overheads were wages plus 100%. This would give something in the region of £59k a year for the mechanic. (I volunteer if that be the case!)

I used to have to work 42 hours a week for 52 weeks, but with 6 weeks annual leave, covering 24 hours a day every day of the year in a complex shift pattern that was applied flexibly in that I was required to required to attend to meet the perceived risk on the day, and to stay on duty without notice if required. (I once was on duty for 40 hours in one spell.) In AD 2000 I was paid £34k per annum. I doubt that the MB mechanics get anything like that even now. And bear in mind that this very approximate calculation allows them a gross profit of £54 an hour, even if the wage rates were as high as that.

Weep not for the dealer my friends.

Ah now we see, it is not the government who get us into trouble, it is the treasury Your calculations are very good, except there are many many things conveniently forgotten. Who pays the receptionist wage, who pays the clerical staff wages, who pays the wages of the nice man you meet when you turn up for the service, who pays for the stock contoller/buyer who keeps an eye on the spares to make sure our cars are serviced on time, who pays the wages for the guy who gives you a lift to your workplace while the car is being serviced, who pays the wages for the guy who valets your car after the service (you may not get that service, I do) I could go one, but you much surely get my drift. The service side of any business must stand alone, the £195.00 per hour has to pay a lot of wages besides the guys wages who services your car.

 

[wemorgan]

Ah now we see, it is not the government who get us into trouble, it is the treasury Your calculations are very good, except there are many many things conveniently forgotten. Who pays the receptionist wage, who pays the clerical staff wages, who pays the wages of the nice man you meet when you turn up for the service, who pays for the stock contoller/buyer who keeps an eye on the spares to make sure our cars are serviced on time, who pays the wages for the guy who gives you a lift to your workplace while the car is being serviced, who pays the wages for the guy who valets your car after the service (you may not get that service, I do) I could go one, but you much surely get my drift. The service side of any business must stand alone, the £195.00 per hour has to pay a lot of wages besides the guys wages who services your car.

As seen in many large multinationals, as the business grows inefficiency becomes rife. Dealers who charge customers £195/hr, but yet pay the mechanics £10-15/hr (?) have lost focus of their customer's needs.

From my own engineering consultancy experience, we need to cover overheads such as, office, admin & IT staff, IT equipment, IT software, travel, sales support & the engineers salaries which are greater than mechanics (I hope), but yet we charge customers less than half the £195/hr quoted.

 

[Dryce]

Hi have just phoned Whiefield Mercedes Benz for a B Service , and im having a stiff Whisky now quoted me ,,sit down,are you Ready
B Service £325.00 , then £280 for Spark Plugs and £170 for 3 filters thats £775.00 +vat.........

I can now better (but not in a good way) that a bit. Service F on my car was quoted at a smidgin under £1K (inc VAT so that's around £870 +) and that excluded the ATF change that the service sheet says is due because I had that done four months ago. If they were doing the ATF change that would probably take it to a almost £1200 inc.

No sign of willingness to deal this time around. Though with that starting point we didn't push very hard.

By comparison last year's B was discounted to a bit under £300 (inc VAT).