How best to get someones attention...

[st4]

On the way back from work I overtook on the urban dual carriage way in Dumbarton and the car then in front of me (a 51 plate fiesta) rear wheel was "wobbling" and it looked as if I were to come off.

I flashed my headlights repeatedly @ the car and tooted the horn but could not get the attention of the driver. I hoped for a red light so the queue would stop so I could quickly get out and tap on his window and tell him there was a problem with his car. Unlukcly there wasn't. Then a Nissan Quashi overtook me and drew along side, and both cars slowed together (I could see the passanger window on the Nissan wind down and they were speaking to each other) and then the Fiesta driver put on his hazards and moved over to the approaching layby to inspect the car.

What did the Nissan driver do that I didn't, is there a set thing to do to get someones attention? I feared he would leave dumbartion and hit the A82 dual carriage way (70mph limit) and then this would put him @ real danger.

On a separate note there is something else that really narks me. Lane closures where 2 lanes merge into 1 on dual carriage ways. The situation, drive upto the merge point then merge in using as much of the road as possible rather than all merge in 1 mile back leaving 1 mile of a lane empty. This is what I do, merge in close to the lane closure. I couldn't, some wan*** in a Shogun decides to straddle both lanes (he is in lane 1-lane 2 closes 500yds ahead) so no-one can pass him and merge in near the closure. I flashed my lights and sounded my horn repeatedly so he could move into lane 1 and I could pass him and merge in ahead. This didn't work. After I merged in (behind him) he moves back into lane 1, then a car attempts to pass, then he blocks them just before they try and pass him.

I've seen these behaviours from white vans too, I don't like it.

 

[Frank O' Phile]

when some mad scot (thats you) starts flashing lights, ignoring them is best practice, but when a second takes up the gauntlet, then you start to think something maybe wrong. Next time wait your turn and go second.

I wholeheartedly concur with your second point. What is the point of leaving a perfectly good stretch of road vacant and causing a longer queue. I don't try to get to the front, I just roll alongside the other line and hope a line of traffic follows me to merge at the point of closure. Makes sense.

 

[st4]

Ah perhaps he thought it was road rage, but he had done nothing wrong to me, and until he was in my sight our paths had not crossed. One does ones best to help and I am glad the nissan driver managed to tell him his car wasnt in good shape. I was tooting my horn and flashing @ him for ages hoping he'd get out of his car when he stopped to confront me, so I could just say his wheel was wobbling away.

 

[Dryce]

On a separate note there is something else that really narks me. Lane closures where 2 lanes merge into 1 on dual carriage ways. The situation, drive upto the merge point then merge in using as much of the road as possible rather than all merge in 1 mile back leaving 1 mile of a lane empty.

The problem with merging is that nobody seems to 'get' the issue of controlling the flow once the traffic level reaches certain thresholds.

Typically what happens when drivers do what you do is that the flow breaks down because of the inability of the two flows to merge smoothly. Traffic queuing up to merge with the traffic at the point where the lanes converge causes everything to slow down at the choke point.

You can see this effect when the traffic backs up behind the choke point but the vehicle separation through the open lane after that is actually very well separated - madness.

 

[Dryce]

Ah perhaps he thought it was road rage,

Maybe you just look like a nutter?

 

[rf065]

I wholeheartedly concur with your second point. What is the point of leaving a perfectly good stretch of road vacant and causing a longer queue. I don't try to get to the front, I just roll alongside the other line and hope a line of traffic follows me to merge at the point of closure. Makes sense.

I got stuck in a long queue on the dual c/way outside Dundee once, although down to one lane, there was plenty of warning and signs telling everyone to "merge in turn" when they reached the point where the lane closed. But still some people straddled both lanes half a mile from the merge point to stop anyone using both lanes. This resulted in a few people using part of the grass verge to get past them and lots of frayed tempers and horn blasting.

Russ

 

[215m3]

The reason why folk straddle lines is because vehicles merging in where the cones cross the closed lane causes the traffic in the continuing lane to come to a halt. Then it is stop start until you get level with the coned off area.

If folk merge in at the 800 yards atc the traffic in the single continuing lane can keep going. It does make traffic flow better. If this lane can be kept moving it works great, but this can't happen when folk merge in at the cones. the reason is because there is not enough room.

I remember years ago on the M25 when i had been queuing patiently for 20 minutes due to lane clousures for road works, i was well pi$$ed off at folk not also being patient and those who let them in when they pushed. When i got to the merging in point i could see one of the impatient drivers approaching in the outside lane. I left a little space, which he saw, i then closed the door and he went through the cones.

Today i will still stand my ground and not let someone push in, as that's what i see it as. The white dividing lane markers also have a give way function, so if you are in one lane you have priority over a car trying to move into the same lane.

Anyway why should they not be patient like all those in the queuing lane? The IAM will also question this as agressive driving and not defensive.

 

[Dryce]

If folk merge in at the 800 yards atc the traffic in the single continuing lane can keep going. It does make traffic flow better.

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that that isn't the solution either.

The problem with the single file well prior to the choke point is that the traffic slows to the speed of the slowest and and also there is the stop/start effect as people don't regulate their speed very well.

So it's a catch 22 where the traffic disrupts at the choke point if both lanes are used in a 2 down to 1. And if the traffic is apparently well behaved and patient it goes slower because it is in a dense queue. Combine the two and you have the effects we see.

The vigilante management by truckers can work quite well on some occasions if it calms and smooths the flow and the drivers cooperate.

But particularly where cars do it there seems to be a backlash where human behaviour causes cooperation to fall further as some drivers show aggression and others retaliate by making merging more difficult. HGV drivers are IMHO (and I will regret saying this!) generally more sensible and strategic than most car drivers (I guess they also have a better vantage point as well).

 

[Mr E]

The reason why folk straddle lines is because vehicles merging in where the cones cross the closed lane causes the traffic in the continuing lane to come to a halt. Then it is stop start until you get level with the coned off area.

If folk merge in at the 800 yards atc the traffic in the single continuing lane can keep going. It does make traffic flow better. If this lane can be kept moving it works great, but this can't happen when folk merge in at the cones. the reason is because there is not enough room.

I remember years ago on the M25 when i had been queuing patiently for 20 minutes due to lane clousures for road works, i was well pi$$ed off at folk not also being patient and those who let them in when they pushed. When i got to the merging in point i could see one of the impatient drivers approaching in the outside lane. I left a little space, which he saw, i then closed the door and he went through the cones.

Today i will still stand my ground and not let someone push in, as that's what i see it as. The white dividing lane markers also have a give way function, so if you are in one lane you have priority over a car trying to move into the same lane.

Anyway why should they not be patient like all those in the queuing lane? The IAM will also question this as agressive driving and not defensive.

What cause the problem is drivers not following the instruction to merge at the cones. The IAM teach something called anticipation - so by leaving an appropriate space at the appropriate time by adjusting your speed means that the traffic will flow, albeit at a slower pace.

It's the arrogance of others who don't want to follow the instructions and protect "my" space that cause the main issues. It's called "merging" not "pushing".

Reference the Highway Code:

Road works
Rule 288

When the ‘Road Works Ahead’ sign is displayed, you will need to be more watchful and look for additional signs providing more specific instructions. Observe all signs - they are there for your safety and the safety of road workers.

* you MUST NOT exceed any temporary maximum speed limit
* use your mirrors and get into the correct lane for your vehicle in good time and as signs direct
* do not switch lanes to overtake queuing traffic
* take extra care near cyclists and motorcyclists as they are vulnerable to skidding on grit, mud or other debris at road works
* where lanes are restricted due to road works, merge in turn (see Rule 134)
* do not drive through an area marked off by traffic cones
* watch out for traffic entering or leaving the works area, but do not be distracted by what is going on there. Concentrate on the road ahead, not the road works
* bear in mind that the road ahead may be obstructed by the works or by slow moving or stationary traffic
* keep a safe distance - there could be queues in front


and rule 134:

134

You should follow the signs and road markings and get into the lane as directed. In congested road conditions do not change lanes unnecessarily. Merging in turn is recommended but only if safe and appropriate when vehicles are travelling at a very low speed, e.g. when approaching road works or a road traffic incident. It is not recommended at high speed.

 

[Dryce]

What cause the problem is drivers not following the instruction to merge at the cones.

Human behaviour.

If you post a temporary speed limit sign at motorway or dual carriageway roadworks a few people will slow down. Many won't. I suspect many who don't are in part influenced by the others. It's a herd instinct thing that means it only takes a few people to be visibly non-compliant and it affects the decisions of others to not comply.

Put in averaging cameras and lo and behold ... result.

You see a similar more limited effect with people jumping queues using the hard shoulder. Traffic behaves. Then one driver uses the shoulder. Chances are that a bunch more will immediately do it.

 

[215m3]

I'm going to play devil's advocate here and say that that isn't the solution either.

The problem with the single file well prior to the choke point is that the traffic slows to the speed of the slowest and and also there is the stop/start effect as people don't regulate their speed very well.

So it's a catch 22 where the traffic disrupts at the choke point if both lanes are used in a 2 down to 1. And if the traffic is apparently well behaved and patient it goes slower because it is in a dense queue. Combine the two and you have the effects we see.

The vigilante management by truckers can work quite well on some occasions if it calms and smooths the flow and the drivers cooperate.

But particularly where cars do it there seems to be a backlash where human behaviour causes cooperation to fall further as some drivers show aggression and others retaliate by making merging more difficult. HGV drivers are IMHO (and I will regret saying this!) generally more sensible and strategic than most car drivers (I guess they also have a better vantage point as well).

I have to disagree with you.

If vehicles merge at the cones the traffic will always be stop start.

If the traffic is in a single line with no merging traffic it will move slowly, but without the stop start.

Where the traffic will come to a stop is approaching traffic meeting and joining the back of the queue. There has to be a stationary bit of traffic at one section, but if it is at the front it will take longer to get through than if it was further down the queue.

Also HGV's aren't generally more sensible. I have come across to many incidenses where on 2 lane roads they pull out in front of an overtaking car, when there's nothing behind them.

As there are more car drivers, but some are HGV drivers who aren't at work, it would seem that they are more sensible.

 

[masher_uk]

Absolutely agree with you *** regarding lane merging. Makes my blood boil when some a$$hole straddles the white line blocking use of the other lane. Happens everywhere, even where the road signs blatantly state to "merge in turn" FFS!

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Only this week I saw a straddler. Dual carriageway approaching a large roundabout over a motorway junction, where the left lane spilts again as left and straight on are most popular - right less so.

Cars travel in both lanes as you'd expect, and start to queue 1/2 mile - sometimes more - from the roundabout.

Traffic in each lane filters so that those on the right who need to be on the left can manouvere, and vice versa. More traffic moves to the left though for the reason mentioned above.

Not one day this week. Some muppet moved from the left lane to straddle the white line about 1/2 mile from the junction, presumably because he could see traffic from the right hand lane moving to the left and therefore 'pushing in'.

Caused chaos as the right hand lane cleared ahead of this muppet as a result, and the traffic was barely moving.

 

[neilrr]

I have to disagree with you.

If vehicles merge at the cones the traffic will always be stop start.

If the traffic is in a single line with no merging traffic it will move slowly, but without the stop start.

How did it get into a single line? It has to merge somewhere along the road so why not at the point where the lanes are restricted? Lot of tarmac going to waste with lane straddlers making their own laws!

 

[rf065]

Lot of tarmac going to waste with lane straddlers making their own laws!

That is the problem, in the absence of any official traffic police or other authority on site, some people decide they will take on the role themselves, even although they are now ignoring the merge in turn signs and causing more problems than they solve.

Russ

 

[janner]

Merge-in-turn makes the most sense....BUT....in my experience 90% of the people who subscribe to merge-in-turn are Type A personalities who think merge-in-turn means 'drive as fast as possible to the end of the lane and barge in, two at a time, at the other end of the hatch markings'. This is usually followed by much gesturing at everyone else then gripping the steering wheel as hard as possible to stop their head exploding.
Still it got them five car places down the queue

 

[Dryce]

Lot of tarmac going to waste

The waste of tarmac isn't really the problem.

It's the flow and how to maintain it.

If you waste a whole load of tarmac but end up with smooth steady flow that will normally mean greater flow through the choke point - so if that all works out the tarmac used/not used doesn't matter.

 

[215m3]

The more folk who try to merge in at the cones and not further back will make it longer for the queue to get to the beginning of the lane restricted zone.

It will be quick for the one who has just overtaken all those in the queue which they have just overtaken, but it is unfair for those who have patiently waited in the queue.

For those who think it is ok to drive to the front of the lane being closed off, just don't try it with me as i'll not let you in. If i have patiently waited, why should you not? It's all about road manners, you show me i'll show you none! You show me some and i'll show you some.

I tend to find the to$$ers who do this are drivers in the middle lane i have previously overtaken and then overtake or undertake them after the lanes open back up again as they will again be in the middle lane.

 

[Biscuit]

i'm not sure the merge in turn and this lane ending in 800, 600, 400 signs etc etc are not contradictory. lots of drivers will anticipate the lane ending and move left at the earliest moment (and feel they've done the right thing) and lots will wait until the cones and feel justified in that action too. if there is a majority of people who react quickly then the closing lane will be sparsely inhabited and cars will make up time by using it.

solution ? don't put which lane is closing on the boards. put plenty of 'slow downs' and 'lane closes ahead' and 'merge in turn' at the last few hundred metres but no driver can feel they've been queue barged. every driver takes a gamble and both lanes equally populated, merge in turn is fair and everyone is happier.

 

[219]

For those who think it is ok to drive to the front of the lane being closed off, just don't try it with me as i'll not let you in. If i have patiently waited, why should you not? It's all about road manners, you show me i'll show you none! You show me some and i'll show you some.

That's EXACTLY how I see it : I merge ASAP , without passing those who were already ahead of me , and wait in turn to get through the roadworks ; I don't take kindly to those who think they are more important than me and everyone else and I NEVER let them in near the front of the queue .

I consider those who steam past a queue of people who have queued patiently before pushing in at the front to be amongst the worst examples of rudeness and ignorance seen on the roads ; would those same people push in at the front of a queue in a shop etc ? I don't think so , so why should such rude behaviour be any more acceptable on the road ?

The ONLY time I drive past a queue of traffic is when I'm on my way to a fire with my blue light on the roof and I NEED to get through as quickly as possible - even then I tend to find my progress is impeded by those same morons who cause needless congestion at the point of the lane closure .