How to deal with the Mercedes dealership. W211 2007 E280 CDI

[cumblechook]

Hi Everyone,

Wow it has been a while since I was on here....

Anyway....... Thanks in advance for any advice.

The car is to be returned at the end of it's PCP Term in June. I wanna give it back early.

I fancy another Merc, but I am not sure how to approach the dealers... My brother worked at Merc and sold this thing to me 4years ago. Sadly, he passed away last year and I don't fancy some Merc sales fella screwing me over. My Bro told me to stick to the E-class and I am gonna do this. I actually went to Audi and Vw today to have a look at an A8 and a Toureg.... Not impressed with the VW, but the new A8 is a cracker...(small boot though).

I digresss...

My question is: What info I need to arm myself with before dealing with the er... Dealership?

Now my brother talked about Glass's and balloon payments and equity when I bought the car..... Can some one refresh me? My bro also said that I should give it back early. In January actually.

Secondly is service D at 62k a big'un? It is due! Crickey! Not my first "D", but maybe this E class

How should I play this? Is there a game to be played?

I fancy the equivalent new model.

 

[hawk20]

First, I'd go to the Glass's Guide website, put in all the details of car and extras, and they will give you a full valuation you can print off -for a measly £3. I have found it helpful to be forearmed with what the part ex value of the car is today, and also to use the valuation to haggle with dealers.

Second, I would go to two or three different MB dealers and ask for a part ex price against the car you want. I have found valuations vary quite dramatically from dealer to dealer.

Make it clear that if you don't get a good enough part ex value you will wait and take the Guaranteed Residual -and if need be do that.
Recent MB's like yours just alternate from A to B services whatever the instrument cluster says. Can you part ex before the service is due? You can go to the MB website and put in your car details and it will give you details of what the car needs -called an Electronic Service Sheet (ESS)

 

[gIzzE]

Just call Mercedes finance and ask for a settlement figure, and then you will know where you are.

I wouldn't even mention you have a trade in or that you have finance on it until you have sorted a price on the new one, you should be looking at around 7-11% discount depending on model, and be aware that the E350cdi sport is only around £10 a week more than an E220cdi avantgarde due to the fact it is far more desirable and so holds its value better over 2 or 4 years.

If you do order a new one, you could agree a trade in price for yours and then advertise it 3-4 weeks before your delivery date for a couple of grand more, if you sell it privately you are quids in, if not you take the trade in price.



I can't help you with the servicing, thing with Merc servicing is the A B etc. means sod all, the time between services seems to matter more, and the services at 2 years, 4 years, 6 years etc. seem to be the more expensive ones, so it could be quite pricey.
Make sure you haggle though.
I look in my book what is due, call up and get prices without giving my details.
I then call up and speak to a service guy and tell them that the dealership down the road has quoted me £xxx.xx (I usually take 25% off) and ask if they will beat it, they always do.

It is amazing how much discount they have on parts too, I couldn't get in to the dealer to get my discs and pads replaced, so I went to parts and asked them for a trade price on new discs and pads all round, he gave me 35% off! Just like that, I called myself GH Motors ( my initials) and nothing more was asked.

To show how much they have to play with, I was quoted £700 to change the discs and pads, front and rear on my E320cdi. I then paid just over £200 for the parts and swapped them myself, even without having a clue what I was doing it only took me an hour to do the fronts, not done rears yet as there is loads of life left.
I bet they can do front and rears in 1 hour 30 mins, so they should be able to give you 50% discount and still make enough money to pay the rates, rent etc. and staff wages.

I never used to ask for discount on servicing, not sure why??

 

[hawk20]

Just call Mercedes finance and ask for a settlement figure, and then you will know where you are.

I don't follow this (normally agree with your posts on Agility). Surely the settlement figure is only relevant if he wants to keep the car, which he doesn't want to do? The part ex figure is what really matters unless he wants to try and sell privately when your suggested method is fine.

Probably many ways of skinning the cat, but I always get the part ex value agreed first and then haggle discount off the new one.

 

[gIzzE]

He wants to give it back early, so you need to call them, get a settlement figure and decide what to do next.

The settlement may be £12000, the car could be worth £17,000.

If that is the case you certainly don't want to throw the keys back at them!

If the settlement is £20,000 and the car is only worth £10,000 then you may as well stay in it till June and then as you say, throw the keys back and start over.


Edit: I think alot of people only ever think about swapping the cars with the funder, you can sell it anywhere and pay off the outstanding balance owed to Mercedes finance.

The reason I said keep quiet about there being finance owing on it when striking a deal is because suddenly the car is worth what is owing, never any more.

 

[gIzzE]

Oh, and Agility is Mercedes new name for PCP.

 

[hawk20]

He wants to give it back early, so you need to call them, get a settlement figure and decide what to do next.

The settlement may be £12000, the car could be worth £17,000.

If that is the case you certainly don't want to throw the keys back at them!

If the settlement is £20,000 and the car is only worth £10,000 then you may as well stay in it till June and then as you say, throw the keys back and start over.


Edit: I think alot of people only ever think about swapping the cars with the funder, you can sell it anywhere and pay off the outstanding balance owed to Mercedes finance.

The reason I said keep quiet about there being finance owing on it when striking a deal is because suddenly the car is worth what is owing, never any more.

I stil think the settlement is irrelevant. He want to buy another E. Surely what matters is the part ex figure. If this is better than the GFV then he has no need to wait till June and it may well pay him not to.

 

[gIzzE]

I stil think the settlement is irrelevant. He want to buy another E. Surely what matters is the part ex figure. If this is better than the GFV then he has no need to wait till June and it may well pay him not to.

The settlement figure is everything.

He owes a certain amount on the car.

He may have £5000 equity in it, he may be £5000 short.

The first thing the dealer will ask is 'How much outstanding finance have you got on your car?'
You need to know. They need to know. They will want to pay it off to clear the finance companies interest in the vehicle.

GFV is ONLY relevant if you are upside down on the amount outstanding, however, 44 months into a 48 month agreement I doubt that will be the case.

The dealerships prey on people who think the GFV is what the car is worth at the end, I know so many people who say "I handed the keys back and started again."
Even my old man came back the other day and said "I managed to get £2500 off their price and they are going to settle my finance on the 730d."
Hold on!
I bet they are, you owe £13,000 on it and it is worth at least £16,000.
A quick phone call and the dealer agreed that maybe £13k was a bit under valued, the new figure is £15800, thus meaning my old man has an extra £2800 as deposit.

How many people would have just accepted that 'they will pay the fianance off on your existing car.' ???
Quite a few.

 

[hawk20]

The settlement figure is everything.

He owes a certain amount on the car.

He may have £5000 equity in it, he may be £5000 short.

.

But he won't know that unless he asks for the part ex valuation will he? (unless he aims to sell privately in which case he should look at Glass's Guide as I said earlier).

My advice would be to ask for a part ex valuation for a sale to be completed very close to the end of the agreement. Then he can either do that deal if it offers him a surplus over the GFV or he can hand the car back with the GFV covering the remaining debt. I would do this partly to see if I could get a surplus, and partly to avoid the need to hand back the vehicle and put right any minor damage etc. Just more convenient and you know where you are. Handing back may involve some costs you cannot know in advance.

If he wants to change now -even though it is so close to the end of the contract- then the settlement figure is relevant as this must be paid to MB. So really he needs the settlement figure, the GFV and a part ex value to help decide between all the options (plus a guide value to market value if he plans to sell privately and to help him haggle a good part ex value if he does not).

 

[hawk20]

GFV is ONLY relevant if you are upside down on the amount outstanding, however, 44 months into a 48 month agreement I doubt that will be the case.

The dealerships prey on people who think the GFV is what the car is worth at the end, I know so many people who say "I handed the keys back and started again."
Even my old man came back the other day and said "I managed to get £2500 off their price and they are going to settle my finance on the 730d."
Hold on!
I bet they are, you owe £13,000 on it and it is worth at least £16,000.
A quick phone call and the dealer agreed that maybe £13k was a bit under valued, the new figure is £15800, thus meaning my old man has an extra £2800 as deposit.

How many people would have just accepted that 'they will pay the fianance off on your existing car.' ???
Quite a few.

These possible problems are solved by a) getting a full valuation from Glass's Guide -see my earlier posting- which will show part ex values, plus private sale and dealer values, in order to gauge what you should be offered for the car,
and b) getting a part ex value from several dealers.

The GFV value is relevant because very often the MB GFV is set at a pretty generous level and market value (in part ex deals) is often no higher than the GFV -especially if you allow for the discount you could get by doing a simple deal with no part ex (by handing the car back at the end of the Agreement).

 

[gIzzE]

Well Glasses this month has the 280cdi on a 2007 with 62k miles on it, in excellent condition (so ready to retail, something to think about service wise.) as.....

Sport - £15700
Avantgarde - £14500
Elegance - £14000


Many dealers want the part ex as it gives them a chance to make another £3k.



Anyway, it is all irrelevant as he posted exactly the same thing elsewhere on the forum and isn't even looking at this thread, so we're just talking to ourselves.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

Im finding these posts very interesting.
I've only ever paid cash for a car, a couple of times in the early £20k,and all this gfv and pcp talk baffles me and I've always wanted to know the benefits etc into getting a lease/ financed car.

So please, continue to talk amongst yourselves....

 

[hawk20]

Im finding these posts very interesting.
I've only ever paid cash for a car, a couple of times in the early £20k,and all this gfv and pcp talk baffles me and I've always wanted to know the benefits etc into getting a lease/ financed car.

So please, continue to talk amongst yourselves....

A PCP is good for those who have not got £20k in cash.
You pay a modest deposit, then a monthly payment which is just enough to cover: -
a) interest on the capital tied up in the car (which MB Finance provides above the deposit level)
and b) the expected depreciation over the next 3 years.

MB give a Guaranteed Future Value for what the car will be guaranteed to be worth after 3 years (often about 50% of list price new) so depreciation is everything above that.

At the end of the 3 years you can give the car back and owe nothing (as the GFV covers the outstanding finance)
Or you can ask for a part ex value which may give you a small surplus towards the deposit on the next car
Or you can buy the car at the GFV either in cash (if you have that available) or on a new finance deal.

Essentially you are renting the car but with an option to purchase at GFV.
You are paying the full cost of ownership as you go along, month by month (interest and depreciation) instead of paying depreciation in one big lump when you change cars as many do. Advantages are the MB finance deals are aften excellent with low APR's around 5-6% (compared with 9-10% from many makers and much more on some HP deals). And often a good discount on price too.

And best of all you have guaranteed maximum depreciation and a guaranteed buyer for the car after 3 years. No hassle.

May not be for all but it suits many. Important to check the APR is sensible and the GFV is good. And the discount is competitive.

 

[Deleted member 37751]

I think I get it now, thanks.
So in effect,say on a £40k Mercedes you put down £5k deposit and the dealer guarantees it will be worth £20k after 3 years, your payments are £500x 36= £18k+ your £5k deposit= £23k leaving you with £3k equity in the car?

 

[gIzzE]

I would always put down the least amount of deposit they allow, if they come after the car for any reason you may appreciate that.

Here is a good finance calculator.....

Car Loan Calculator

You can play about with deposits, residuals and APR rates to show you what the monthly amounts may be.

I have found that if I buy a car at 6-12 months old with less than 10k miles on it and run it for 12-24 months or 50k miles, whichever comes first, is the cheapest way I can run a car. That is overall running costs.

A car tends to loose around 25-30% in the first 6-12 months and then another 10% of list in years 2 and 3.
Also for some reason, a car with 40k miles still sells very well and for nearly as much as a car with 20k miles on it of the same age.

So, take a £40,000 car, buy it for £30,000 at 6 months old with 7k miles on it.
Run it for 24 months and add 30k miles to it and sell it at 2.5 years old with 37k miles on it and 6 months warranty left.

A 58 plate car is with around 40k miles is still very desirable.
I nearly bought a 58 plate ML320cdi sport at 6 months old, for £31,000 nealry 2 years ago.
Looking around today it seems that car with 40k miles on it would still be worth about £26,000.

So it has only really lost £5000 in 2 years.

I would not have been able to afford that car buying cash, but I could have with a £3k deposit and then paying the depreciation off.
From memory, over 36 months they were happy to give a residual (GFV) of £18000 for that car, and it was just under £400 a month.

So I would have paid £400 x 24 (9600), I would owe £21000 on it by now and it would be worth around £25000, meaning I walk away with £4000 after settling finance outsanding.

£9600 + 3000 deposit - £4000 equity = £8600 or £358 month.

Plus then you have the benefit of running a newer car than if I had bought a 55 plate with 80k miles on it for the £23k I might have been able to afford using cash.
Cheaper servicing etc.

That £23k 55 plate with 80k miles would now be a 120k mile car that is coming up to 6 years old, and worth around £14-15k, even paying cash it would have cost me a minimum of £333 a month in depreciation, so only really £25 in it. Plus you then have the extra expense of running an older, higher mileage car.

You really do have to weigh up what is best, sometimes borrowing more can be cheaper.

 

[tagnut]

gIzzE an excellent summary and example thanks very much. Like Sweetpea I've never really looked into these before but certainly will next time it comes to change my car
Cheers

 

[gIzzE]

It doesn't always work like that, just found out my neighbour bought a new Vauxhall Insignia estate and paid..........wait for it............£33,000!! That was with nearly £5000 discount.

Don't get me wrong, it is lovely looking and has all the toys, but it is still a Vauxhall, and only a 160bhp 2.0 diesel!!

Worse than that is the residual value, they have said £11500 after 3 years, which means it is costing him £640 a month. He came round to see if I thought that was a good deal as he knows I go through loads of cars.
WTF could I say??

I told him we had just bought a BMW 520d SE Touring with everything on it, including 8 speed auto, full nav, usb, bluetooth, internet etc. etc. for less money and because of residuals it was £440 a month.

The thing with Mercs and BMWs etc. is they are very desirable used, which does help residuals, and makes using finance an option that should definitely be considered.

Buying something that doesn't hold its value, like the Vauxhall above, using finance makes little sense at all, buy at 3 years old for £13k.

 

[tagnut]

£38K retail It just shows how long it is since I looked at Vauxhalls. Didn't think you could spend that much on one. He must be gutted

 

[gIzzE]

Just looked on the Vauxhall site as I wasn't sure how he got a Vauxhall to nearly £38,000, but it actually looks pretty easy, the base price of his was only £29k, there is a VXR starting at £34000 I think it was!

This was the spec. I quickly added........




Elite Nav £30,770.00
2.0CDTi 16v (160PS), Automatic

Carbon Flash £470.00

Premium Nappa Leather Pack (inc: Ergonomic sports front seats (heated), Nappa leather seat upholstery, leather-trimmed head restraints, door panels & armrest, VXR-style steering wheel, gearknob, piano black-effect inserts, aluminium pedals & mats) £3,060.00

20-inch 5-twinspoke alloy wheels (emergency tyre inflation kit) with locking bolts and 245/35 R 20 ultra-low profile tyres £870.00


Options Total £6,880.00

Embedded mobile phone system with Bluetooth® (does not include phone or cradle) and shark fin aerial
£420.00

230-volt rear power outlet behind front seats (two-pin Euro-style socket)
£85.00

Cigar lighter and front ashtray
£25.00

FlexRide (Adaptive Stability Technology) system
£790.00

VXR Styling Pack
£840.00

FlexOrganiser® Pack
£110.00

Rear side window sunblinds
£210.00


Final RRP (incl. VAT) £37,650.00





I am amazed!!

 

[hawk20]

I think I get it now, thanks.
So in effect,say on a £40k Mercedes you put down £5k deposit and the dealer guarantees it will be worth £20k after 3 years, your payments are £500x 36= £18k+ your £5k deposit= £23k leaving you with £3k equity in the car?

Easiest way is to go to the MB website and look under current offers to see examples giving all the data