I did a stupid thing today.

[markjay]

A little confused here, you don't state what was in front of you, why wouldn't you speed up when this ar$e came roaring up behind you? Don't tell me you would not exceed 70 because that is the limit? If so then I would say you were in the wrong too. That lane is for overtaking, therefore, if you were just sat there doing 70mph and not overtaking, I'd be pretty miffed too, not 3ft off your bumper miffed, but certainly an icey stare when I do get passed.

Sorry if I misunderstood and you were genuinely being held up.

There are new gantries with speed cameras on that stretch of the M1 between junction 6 and 10, which is why I did not want to speed up and was keeping a perfect speed of 70mph (in hindsight I suppose I could have relied on the 10% + 2 mph rule). The Beemer either didn't care about the cameras, didn't know about them, or knew their exact locations and when the next gantry camera was due. I don't even know if these are fixed cameras or average speed cameras - all I know is that there are plenty of them (around 20 in total I think). I was not going to get points on my clean license just to satisfy the 'need for speed' of a fellow motorists.

As for overtaking.... this was exactly what I did. There were slow vehicles in the inner lane, and around 4 or 5 vans/LGVs in the middle lane travelling at around 55-60 mph (I estimate). When I got behind the vans I moved into the outer lane and started overtaking. It takes a while to overtake 4-5 vehicles at a relative speed of 10-15mph. The Beemer came out of nowhere and got stuck on my rear.

I would have gladly moved aside - but I did not want to cut in between the vans. I moved as soon as I could because I really don't like it when someone is driving that close behind me on the motorway. I would have moved over sooner if I could - he can speed if he wants to, but why sit on my tail when I clearly can't move? He was putting me and my familiy at unnecessary risk and that was a daft thing to do.

25 years ago a fully-loaded cement mixer crashed at speed into a brand new W201 in which I was a passenger. This things weighs around 25 tons I think. He was tailing us while we were overtaking a slow lorry. The lorry splashed some muddy waters on our windscreen, and the single wiper did not manage to clean it fast enough, so the driver slowed down - luckily he just took his foot off the accelerator and did not apply the brakes, the Merc was flung 50 yards onto oncoming traffic and lampposts which my friend narrowly avoided. Had he applied the brakes, the cement mixer would have been on top of us, and I would not be writing this now. Luckily all I had was a very sore neck for a couple of weeks. The Merc was supposed to be written-off (it effectively had no boot left) - but the owner decided to repair it which was a mistake, the car was wonky till its last day.

 

[Sp!ke]

Dont forget that your indicated 70 is going to be 65 or something in reality.

 

[prprandall51]

So basically from that summary a motorway can be a single carriageway road if it can only be used by class I and II traffic.

So that clears things up perfectly

For sure. All slip roads on motorways are part of the motorway network and many of them are single carriageway. Some roundabouts are also motorways as well (And are signed something like "Motorway regulations still apply", though I doubt that applies to the minimum speed limit! Or is the minimum speed limt an urban myth?).

 

[Jeff666]

Think we are missing the whole point here... Subject was I did a stupid thing today"

Hands up who hasn't thought Mmmmm should I have done that...

 

[cinek]

Or is the minimum speed limt an urban myth?

Not in the Blackwall tunnel it isnt.

 

[RWDpetrol]

Dont forget that your indicated 70 is going to be 65 or something in reality.

Noted, must drive faster.

 

[John]

I don't see anything wrong in post #1 personally.

I would have stayed in lane 2 and carried on at whatever speed I was doing. If you don't move out of it, your lane of traffic is moving faster rather than overtaking or undertaking...

Some strange people around.

In my rear-view mirror I could see a small 1-Series BMW coming at speed, he then sat on my rear bumper about three feet behind me, lights flashing an all.

I had no room to move to the left, I did not want to slow down and fall behind the vans - not with Mr. Impatient on my back, and I definitely did not want to accelerate beyond the NSL.

So I used my hazards to try and fend him off - which left no impression on him. I suppose a sudden application of the brakes might have brought him around but I am not playing games on the road.

I ended up moving to the left as soon as a suitable gap appeared. The Beemer zoomed past - he was not happy.

Sounds like an over-zealous lane-hogger got a bit too excited.

Personally, I would have carried on in lane 2 and waved.

That's what lanes 3 and 4 are for.

 

[itaintemeyouno]

A little confused here, you don't state what was in front of you, why wouldn't you speed up when this ar$e came roaring up behind you? Don't tell me you would not exceed 70 because that is the limit? If so then I would say you were in the wrong too. That lane is for overtaking, therefore, if you were just sat there doing 70mph and not overtaking, I'd be pretty miffed too, not 3ft off your bumper miffed, but certainly an icey stare when I do get passed.

Sorry if I misunderstood and you were genuinely being held up.

Sorry, but this is idiotic.

I've been in this scenario many times.

So you have this idiot behind you right up your chuff. You're doing 70 with no space to pull in because the other lane(s) is (are) full of lorries etc.

What do you do?

I know, speed up to 75....that will sort it, right?

Nope. He then catches up again.

So what do you do now?

Speed up again to 80?

What do you think will happen? Guess what the same will happen, so speed up to 85? 90? Where do you draw the line?

Chances are you will be between junction 34 and 36 of the M4 (or any other part of the motorway with an over bridge popular with white vans with gaps in the side or rear) and as you speed up to 85 you get clocked by the Safety Camera Partnership van and as you are the car in front, you get the ticket.

Getting pressured by the idiot behind you isn't a defence.

By all means pull in when safe (and it isn't just Audi and BMW drivers that do this - I've seen plenty of idiots in Mercs do the same) but simply speeding up isn't the answer.

 

[Dieselman]

I am going to get stick for this, but I wanted to recount a silly avoidable incident that happened this morning.
So I have had the wannabe traffic light grand prix boys in their hot hatches wanting a race and always denied them that pleasure. My licence is too valuable, but this morning I came as close as I ever have to losing both my temper, and licence, because of an outside lane moron in an Audi playing the fool.

It was 6 15am and hardly a car on the road. Travelllng out of Bournemouth toward Southampton on a good two lane dual carriageway that runs for about 10miles onto the M27.

I was a little behind time and pushing on in the inside lane when I spotted an Audi in the outside lane travelling at maybe 60mph. I slowed and moved to the outside lane but kept my distance waiting for him to move across.

Either oblivious to me behind him, or just a lane hogger I'm unsure, but after a few minutes I could see he wasn't going to move over. I'm not one for flashing lights and sounding horns, so I just moved back to the inside lane and increased my speed to around 70 so I slowly crept past him. No harm done and nobody else in sight.

Now this may have been incorrect, but he was blocking my progress, I felt deliberately. When I was around 100yds past the Audi I increased my speed a little more but became alarmed to see the Audi was now accelerating very quickly, catching me up.
What to do? Floor it and easily lose him or ignore him.
I'm afraid I rose to the bait today, and hit the loud pedal which sent the car rocketing off into the distance ( I hold my hands up, it was silly).
Good sense took hold quickly and a glance at the speedo got me braking until back at a sensible speed.

The Audi kept coming and passed me at an even sillier speed than I had just touched. I wasn't playing anymore and let him go. But he most certainly wanted to mess around, as he then dropped his speed back to 50mph, in the outside lane, daring me I think, to do it again.

I stayed in the inside lane descending the A31 toward the M27 at 50mph and watched as Mr Audi moved to the inside lane in front of me, brake tested me before accelerating off down the motorway.
I quietly hoped he would run off the road.

When I was young I had a very similar incident where I cruised up to and past a car in the outside lane of an urban dual carriageway.
The driver then accelerated and overtook me, pulling in front shortly before a large roundabout.
Considering it was midnight and there were no other cars except my friends father following me, what the driver in front was did was astonishing.
He waited until he was just on the roundabout then brake tested me right down to Zero.
I was looking right to check for moving traffic, saw none, looked back forwards and he was stopped dead. I braked hard and came to rest having fairly slowly hit the back of his car.
My Friends Father was still looking right and rammed the back of my car without touching the brakes at all.

Cue one rear ended Vx Carlton, one lightly damaged front ended Polenez made out of bridge girders, (thicker steel in eastern bloc cars), one very crushed, one year old, Mazda 626.

That was my second write off, the first one was when I let another Friend drive my mini 1275GT...into a brick wall then spin round into two cars in the double garage. That one nearly took me out as well as the car.

I'd only had the car on the road two days...

 

[MDC250]

Think I would probably have done the same in this situation.

Not just odd motorists from the general public out there, some cops are just plain weird.

Was on an unlit section of motorway in lane 1, motorway was completely empty and I'm doing 70 minding my own business. Car comes bearing down on me and is closer than I'd like. If travelling on my own I would have booted it a little and pulled away but kept my speed constant as had the wife and baby in the car. After a mile or two the car finally pulls out to overtake...it's only a traffic police car which I couldn't make out in the dark/with headlights shining onto rear view and wing mirrors.

For once in my life not reacting paid off and whilst I'm sure/hopeful I would have had a chance of arguing cops were goading me into speeding under the circumstances I still can't understand why he was being such an idiot.

More recently on a two lane wide 30 mph section of road an unmarked X5 basically was chopping lanes back and forth so I decide to pass as they couldn't seem to make their mind up. As I blip past, at a point of a side road being on my left, driver lets me get a few car lengths ahead then puts the blue lights on. It's an armed response unit, so figure for them to pull me must have been doing a fair but more than 30, so bang to rights. I reckon I was probably getting onto nearer 40mph on the overtake.

This section of road is wide enough and conventionally has cars drive side by side in both directions despite lack of formal line and lane paint (other than centre line of course!) but I'm told how did I know they weren't going to move from left to right to take a right when I overtook?!

I shouldn't have reacted, spotted the extra aerials (hard to do on the blue variant of paint on the X5...is that deliberate?!) and not gone as far over 30 as I did but there you go. Modest telling off and back the other way they go.

It's a lottery and unless you are a saint and never ever speed it's only a matter of time before you cross the path of plod. Shame they are never around to deal with people who cause situations like those in the OP.

 

[BernardB]

Dave also said the the police pulled over the other guy at the same time. And after a brief conversation, the policeman told Dave, he saw exact what went on and said he was going to have a word with the other guy about his 'dangerous driving'

Dave was waved on his way and got told he had a nice car.

And then Dave woke up.

 

[krisby]

Sorry, but this is idiotic.

I've been in this scenario many times.

So you have this idiot behind you right up your chuff. You're doing 70 with no space to pull in because the other lane(s) is (are) full of lorries etc.

What do you do?

I know, speed up to 75....that will sort it, right?

Nope. He then catches up again.

So what do you do now?

Speed up again to 80?

What do you think will happen? Guess what the same will happen, so speed up to 85? 90? Where do you draw the line?

Chances are you will be between junction 34 and 36 of the M4 (or any other part of the motorway with an over bridge popular with white vans with gaps in the side or rear) and as you speed up to 85 you get clocked by the Safety Camera Partnership van and as you are the car in front, you get the ticket.

Getting pressured by the idiot behind you isn't a defence.

By all means pull in when safe (and it isn't just Audi and BMW drivers that do this - I've seen plenty of idiots in Mercs do the same) but simply speeding up isn't the answer.

Ah, not idiotic, it means you will get a gap to pull in quicker, reducing the time at risk with with this guy 3ft off the bumper.

Anyway, take it with a pinch of salt, my whole point was, code or not, most people do not go to the outside lane to do 70mph, by being there at 70mph with no traffic in front of you is going to piss people off. I'm not saying its right, I'm saying that is what happens.

 

[markjay]

Ah, not idiotic, it means you will get a gap to pull in quicker, reducing the time at risk with with this guy 3ft off the bumper.

Anyway, take it with a pinch of salt, my whole point was, code or not, most people do not go to the outside lane to do 70mph, by being there at 70mph with no traffic in front of you is going to piss people off. I'm not saying its right, I'm saying that is what happens.

Anyone who is pisses off by another vehicle driving in the outer lane with no other vehicle in front of it should surrender his driving license and retake his driving exam.

The only relevant criteria is what happens to the left of the vehicle in front of you - is the vehicle in front indeed overtaking another slower vehicle? If it is, then you should allow it to complete the manoeuvre safely.

And, setting aside the usual debate about speeding, the idea that the outer lane is only for use of vehicles travelling at speeds higher than 70mph is odd to say the least.

It is not about speeding, it is about safety. Speed all you like when the road is clear, but don't put others at risk in order to achieve it.

 

[E55BOF]

It is indeed all about safety, and the easiest way to resolve the safety issue of some nitwit 3 ft. from your rear bumper in those circumstances is to speed up (within reason -10% + 2 mph as a rule of thumb seems reasonable to nearly all policemen) and pull into the first safe gap. Yes, you will exceed the NSL by doing so. So what?

I more-or-less keep to the limits when driving, but not because I am concerned about either my or the car's ability to exceed them safely. I am, however, concerned about the possibility of a fine and points on my licence.

If there was no limit, I would quite happily cruise at much higher speeds, when the conditions allowed, if I felt the need to do so. With increasing age, generally speaking neither my hair nor my pants are on fire these days, and I would probably be quite happy 95% of the time at about 85 or less on the motorway - which, ironically perhaps, is the speed I cruised at when my hair and pants WERE on fire....

 

[itaintemeyouno]

It is indeed all about safety, and the easiest way to resolve the safety issue of some nitwit 3 ft. from your rear bumper in those circumstances is to speed up (within reason -10% + 2 mph as a rule of thumb seems reasonable to nearly all policemen) and pull into the first safe gap. Yes, you will exceed the NSL by doing so. So what?

I more-or-less keep to the limits when driving, but not because I am concerned about either my or the car's ability to exceed them safely. I am, however, concerned about the possibility of a fine and points on my licence.

If there was no limit, I would quite happily cruise at much higher speeds, when the conditions allowed, if I felt the need to do so. With increasing age, generally speaking neither my hair nor my pants are on fire these days, and I would probably be quite happy 95% of the time at about 85 or less on the motorway - which, ironically perhaps, is the speed I cruised at when my hair and pants WERE on fire....

You are allowed only 10% +1 according to ACPO. Enforcement starts at 10% +2.

Nitpicking aside, my point still stands. I've had this situation on M4, M6 and A14 when other lanes are taken up with HGVs and coaches overtaking each other. I'm not going to be out of pocket and get points on my licence just because some kn*bhead wants to sit on my tail. It won't be a defence to the offence and it will be the one being pressured that will get the ticket when it is being decided by a camera - they have no discretion that a policeman might be able to apply. Yes it's sensible to get in to the first safe gap as soon as practical and safe to do so.

 

[markjay]

While the 10% +2mph rule means I could have accelerated from 70mph to 79mph even under the gantry cameras, it did not occur to me at the time.

The entire episode took a minute or two which is not enough time to fully evaluate the issues regarding cameras and speed... 70mph seemed like the right speed for staying on the right side of the law and out of trouble.

 

[itaintemeyouno]

While the 10% +2mph rule means I could have accelerated from 70mph to 79mph even under the gantry cameras, it did not occur to me at the time.

The entire episode took a minute or two which is not enough time to fully evaluate the issues regarding cameras and speed... 70mph seemed like the right speed for staying on the right side of the law and out of trouble.

you might be safe at 79 from a gantry but not necessarily from a safety camera van. My wife got a ticket for 79mph in a 70 between J34 and 35 of M4 as that is where enforcement starts in most police forces.

 

[RWDpetrol]

My wife got a ticket for 79mph in a 70 between J34 and 35 of M4

Really? I thought NSL weren't enforced by cameras on motorways?

 

[Spin_bowler]

Really? I thought NSL weren't enforced by cameras on motorways?

There are often camera vans on bridges over the M4 west of Reading all the way to the junction with the M5. I guess that they wouldn't be there if they weren't sending out tickets.

As for the gantry cameras on the M1 from 6-10, my mates Dave's been through them above the NSL on numerous occasions and never had a NIP.

 

[John]

I think it depends on which cameras.

I understand some now do enforce the 70 limit with usual ACPO on top - like ones on the M25 from JC1 for quite a few junctions...