I just bought an MB AUDIO 30 APS

[noogieman]

This navigation device is the cd-player version not the tapedeck.
I will remove my stock MB audio 30 tapedeck and install the new APS 30.

My car is a 1999 C43 AMG model with BOSE and the new canbus D2B system.
After installing the new nav am I going to encounter any problems?
Problems like:
# My car's datasystem doesn't recognize the new deck?
# Car wont start, the antitheft system blocks everything?

Do I have to go to the stealership and integrate the new deck with the rest of my car's datasystem to work properly?

I red a few lines about installing the new deck!
Some of the information was not clear enogh to understand, so a better explanation would be great.
# Speed signal wire located in the passengers footwell:
Is this wire the automatic speed volume adjustment?
If yes then my AUDIO 30 tapedeck has this gadget active!

# I also red about connecting the nav deck to a certain wire to the
reverse speed on gearbox?
What does this mean to connect the deck to this reverse wire on
gearbox?

somebody also linked a download for the manual but the DL didn't work?

I have bought an universal gps antenna with wiclic round connection for this deck.
The seller told me it has a gain of 28db +/- 3db?
Is this the best reception or was he just jive talkin' me?
Do I degrade the reception if I put the antenna inside under the dashboard?
Having it ontop on the dash looks ugly!

After installing the new deck do I need some kind of calibration to do to set the standards?
Or is it only plug 'n' play, redy to use at once?

Any good wizards on this forum that knows about such things about retrofittin' other MB audio in different MB cars?
I need your help.
Thanks

 

[wobbly]

I have an APS 30 fitted in my SL.

The syetem is plug and play, you need to set your tyre size, then drive the car around for a few miles for the system to calibrate its self.

The antenne will work fine positioned under the dash.

As for canbus, I cannot help you, as the SL isnt fitted with advanced electronics.

When fitted, Its a very discrete system and performs really well, I used my system a couple of years ago, travelling through, France, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland and Italy and was very pleased with it.

 

[noogieman]

I have an APS 30 fitted in my SL.

The syetem is plug and play, you need to set your tyre size, then drive the car around for a few miles for the system to calibrate its self.

The antenne will work fine positioned under the dash.

As for canbus, I cannot help you, as the SL isnt fitted with advanced electronics.

When fitted, Its a very discrete system and performs really well, I used my system a couple of years ago, travelling through, France, Belgium, Germany, Switzerland and Italy and was very pleased with it.

hey bud,
that was a quick reply, thanks.

my deck is a german version, is it easy to change language on the front panel buttons?

When do the settings:
setting tire size?
is it only for the front tires or also the rear tires?
do I enter 225/40/18 like this?

now the problem is with the other questions?
speed sensor wire?
gearbox reverse wire?
integrating the deck into canbus d2b system?
then I'm off to go I guess?

thanks

 

[cyberflex]

Hi.
Can't really help with your application, however as I have installed an aftermarket headunit in my W203 c-class I can help a little.
First of all I am no expert, I have learned alot by being into car audio for many years and also have learnt alot from this and other forums, there are some extremely clever people on this forum that retrofit official stuff, I believe their names are Alfie and Richard, search for their posts maybe.
First of all canbus has nothing to do with D2B, D2B is a protocol for communication on the fibre optic audio gateway, it is for example how the comand unit audio10/20 e.t.c talks to the cd changer/bose amplifier/phone cradle/DAB tuner/TV tuner e.t.c.
The old audio 10 unit in my w203 c class used d2b fibre optics to communicate audio signals with my 6 disc changer, as I removed both of these and I did not have factory Bose/phone cradle e.t.c. I effectively removed the fibre optic D2B communication from my car. I also believe Mercedes no longer use D2B anymore, as on the facelift W203 C class, the more advanced MOST (Media oriented system transport) is used as the method of fibre optic communication. My mini also uses MOST, so it seems to have become the accepted standard of communication of audio related factory fitted devices.
The fact that you say your car uses canbus is good, I do not want to go into too much detail here, but you could google canbus to really get more understanding.
For example in my W203 there were 3 iso connectors, one 8 way iso for power, one 8 way iso for speakers and a 10 way iso that contained the brown pair of twisted canbus wires.
When, for example, I checked my 8 way iso power connector with a multimeter, I could find a permanant +12v , but could not find a ignition +12v or illumination +12v, but yet my audio 10 switched on and off with the key, also at night it would dim when I turned my lights on, so it was obviously getting these signals from somewhere.
This is the clever bit, signals such as ignition +12v, illumination, speed pulse, reverse signal e.t.c.are generated by the 2 brown twisted wires on my 10 way iso,my Audio 10 could 'Read' these signals, these 2 wires are called CAN HI and CAN LOW, if your car has CANBUS and the head unit you bought was for the later CANBUS cars, then it should be plug and play. If the car has CANBUS and the head unit does not, then you will have to go and get the signals you require from various points in the car and just not use the canbus twisted pair of wires or use an aftermarket canbus module to give you the individual feeds you require and connect these with your new unit. If the headunit is CANBUS and the car is not then I am not sure how you will do it, maybe some sort of specific canbus adaptor for your unit fed from the signals you will have to get from various points in the car.
For example in my w203, I can get +12v ignition, illumination, speed pulse, reverse, from my car by connecting an aftermarket canbus adaptor module to the CAN HI and CAN LOW twisted brown wires in the 10 way iso plug, this will then separate all the signals and give me old fashioned individual wires for +12v ignition, illumination, reverse, speed pulse that I can connect to any aftermarket head unit.
I can also get these signals by running individual wires to various points around the car, but it is alot more work. My unit only required a +12v ignition and illumination so I tapped into the cigarette lighter wiring for these, the rest of the wires I needed were already in the 8 way iso power connector that plugged into my old audio 10.
I hope this helps a bit.
Jon

 

[wobbly]

my deck is a german version, is it easy to change language on the front panel buttons?

When do the settings:
setting tire size?
is it only for the front tires or also the rear tires?
do I enter 225/40/18 like this?

Language is easily changed on the display.

And yes you enter tyre size as 225/40/18 or what they are.
It also asks if the tyres are new or used, so the system can work out the rolling radius of the wheel.

 

[noogieman]

CYBERFLEX:
I bet it took a few minutes to write this down?
Thank you.

About the canbus system:
As of all 1999 cars that came with Canbus and D2b, then I have all the necessary gadgets activated in my car?
Am I correct?

Meaning the speed signal pulse, reverse signal, dimming light on the front panel, ignition switched off then radio is killed?
My stock MB audio 30 tapedeck without navigation had the speed adjusting volume, the dimming lights on radio goes by the cluster buttons I think?

The D2b is like you said only for components to communicate?
So I have the new CANBUS that was installed as a new system from 1999 cars?

I guess it's only to connect the ISO connectors and the universal gps antenna and then ready to rock 'n' roll?
Do all settings and off I go?
Am I correct?

But do you know if my car will accept the new radio?
Any blockage?


Wobbly
Thanks for the info.
About the tire dimension settings?
Do I need to measure the tire tread?
My fronts are worn on both outer and inner side tread!
The middle section has better and normal tread wear.
I guess I had to much air pumped in my fronts so they are worn uneven on the edges compared to the center!

Is it only the fronts I need to enter the settings or the rear tires too?
My fronts are 225/40/18
My rears are 255/35/18

Thanks

 

[noogieman]

I forgot to write that I also have the integrated telephone system in my MB AUDIO 30 tapedeck!

I have the small microphone attached on the A-pillar.
I have the factory BOSE HIFI system.
Also the cd-changer in the trunk operated by an fiber optics wire

with this information do I have all the necessary pins connected into the 3 ISO plugs plugged into the backside of the navigation?
# Wire for speed sensor?
# Wire for reverse sensor?

Reading other threads about installing APS 30, some say that 210 E-klasse did not have the pins for speed and reverse sensor included In the ISO plugs?
But for a C-klasse 202 from 1999 are both sensors included in the ISO connectors?

Thanks

 

[cyberflex]

Hi Kowalski,
I think the time has come for you to really remove your old unit and see what you have to work with in terms of connections.
I am no Mercedes retrofit expert and have only worked on a W203 C class.
I do not know if any W202 C classes were canbus, I guess you have a chance of it being canbus as your car was one of the very last W202 vehicles.
Apparantly if you have steering wheel buttons, your car may have canbus.
The problem I have read about is that if you have a W202, some say you have to purchase a non canbus version of the APS 30, so this maybe a problem if your car is not canbus and the unit is canbus.
You will just have to remove your old unit, disconnect all the iso's and the fibre optic connection, and hope that the plug for the fibre optic connection from your old unit matches up with your new unit.
So, connect power iso, connect speaker iso, you may have another iso that has canbus and cd changer wake up wires, lastly connect fibre optic plug and try.
I am no Merc retrofit expert, you may want to post a new topic with a more specific title, so that the experts may answer.
At the end of the day, you need to remove your old unit now, in order to know what connections your car has.
The ideal scenario will be that your later W202 uses canbus, the unit you bought is a canbus one and the fibre optic plug matches your new unit. If this is the case, you are laughing.
Hope for the best.
Cheers Jon.

 

[noogieman]

Hello Cyberflex.

I haven't got my APS 30 yet, the seller will ship it tomorrow.
It has the code BE4715 it was bought new from MB dealer in 2001, being installed in a 2000 CLK 208.

I am sure it will work on my car beacuse my cd-changer supports D2B fiber optics connection.

If I understand correct, the canbus system is not the same thing as D2B??

In 1998 model C43 AMG pre facelift with old style design radios, these cars did not support D2B!
They were like analog connections I think?

My car is manufactured in late 98 as an 1999 model with the new style looks on radio flipping front but no navigation,
I also have the cargo net down the passengers footwell!
I am sure the canbus is fitted to my car.

I have to wait a week or so to get it then I can fiddle with it.

My car has the old style gearbox 1-2-3-4-D-P-R, not the new tiptronic.
Only from year 2000 cars had the new design tiptronic gearbox stick and the new instrument cluster with gear selctor indicator.
Also they had the buttons on the steering wheel located in the back of the steering wheel.

My car doesn't have the above improvments that 2000 cars gained.

The only things cars from 1999 got was the new style looks for stereos/cargo net/pass. side/D2B CANBUS system

 

[noogieman]

This is what my current radio looks like
MB AUDIO 30 tapedeck

 

[wobbly]

CYBERFLEX:


Wobbly
Thanks for the info.
About the tire dimension settings?
Do I need to measure the tire tread?
My fronts are worn on both outer and inner side tread!
The middle section has better and normal tread wear.
I guess I had to much air pumped in my fronts so they are worn uneven on the edges compared to the center!

Is it only the fronts I need to enter the settings or the rear tires too?
My fronts are 225/40/18
My rears are 255/35/18

Thanks

The options are new or worn tyres, so I would input worn.

I would imagine that the rolling radius for the fronts and rears are the same, try inputing one of the dimensions, and if the navigation is a little out, try the other tyre dimensions.

The languages and tyre sizes are located when pressing the NAV button.

 

[noogieman]

The options are new or worn tyres, so I would input worn.

I would imagine that the rolling radius for the fronts and rears are the same, try inputing one of the dimensions, and if the navigation is a little out, try the other tyre dimensions.

The languages and tyre sizes are located when pressing the NAV button.

ok, alles gut.
I will try when I get my navigator.
vielen dank

 

[cyberflex]

I think you have made good points. Easiest way, pull out old unit, you may have 3 iso connectors, A,B and C, plus the fibre connector.
If so, your car has canbus ( 2 wires, brown in colour on the C connector)
Hopefully the new unit matches up, I guess being from a late w208, it will be a canbus unit.
I think even if the C connector does not match up with your new unit,you could extract the can hi and can lo from the c connector of the car, then you could get a pin diagram for you new unit and connect the brown Can Hi and Can Lo wires to your new unit give you ign+12v, speed pulse, illumination, reverse e.t.c.
I think that it should work, your car being the last run of w202 therefore probably canbus.
Hope for the best.
Cheers Jon.

 

[noogieman]

I think you have made good points. Easiest way, pull out old unit, you may have 3 iso connectors, A,B and C, plus the fibre connector.
If so, your car has canbus ( 2 wires, brown in colour on the C connector)
Hopefully the new unit matches up, I guess being from a late w208, it will be a canbus unit.
I think even if the C connector does not match up with your new unit,you could extract the can hi and can lo from the c connector of the car, then you could get a pin diagram for you new unit and connect the brown Can Hi and Can Lo wires to your new unit give you ign+12v, speed pulse, illumination, reverse e.t.c.
I think that it should work, your car being the last run of w202 therefore probably canbus.
Hope for the best.
Cheers Jon.

hey buddy.
thanks for your help.

I tried the search function for canbus but I got now good answers!
Is it like wireless transporter of data to other ecu's in my car?
For communication?

The D2B wire is just a glass wire transporting the information between units?

If my car came with fiberoptics as an 1999 model car then canbus must also be integrated is it?

I guess I just have to wait and see when I get the new radio and having it installed

Thanks

 

[cyberflex]

Hi.
Can bus is rather complicated to explain and to understand, it is a type of broadcast serial bus, used to link ecu's.(electronic control units). There are various nodes that are able to send and receive messages.
Please use google and you will understand.
No, it has nothing to do with wireless.
Just because your head unit uses D2B fibre communication to talk to the bose amp, telephone e.t.c. does not necessarily mean your car uses canbus.
If you think about your scenario it becomes a little easier to understand, canbus was introduced in the automobile world to reduce costs, for example +12v ignition, illumination, speed pulse, reverse signal, e.t.c. would each require a separte wire, with canbus all these signals are transmitted and read using only 2 wires, the twisted brown pair (CAN HI and CAN LO) so it is easy to see that costs are reduced as the amount of wiring is reduced. Just 2 wires carry all these signals digitally. So long as the new head unit is canbus compatible and is able to read the messsages sent down the CAN HI and CAN LO wires. BEWARE, do not play around with these 2 wires if you have them, you may not blow a fuse by shorting them, you will kill modules, so please be carefull, these 2 brown canbus wires look like any others, but believe me they have the capability to cause alot of damage, if not treated with respect, as they are linked to loads of nodes/modules around the car.
I am no expert, and the above is just one aspect of modern day bus systems.
I am however really interested in this stuff, it really is clever, the only down point is, gone are the days of auto electricians using a multimeter to diagnose some more in depth faults. This is where things like STAR diagnosis come into their own.
Also, for example in the old days if you wanted an aftermarket alarm, you would use a multimeter to tap into all the circuits you needed, e.g. central locking, indicators, interior lights, door switches e.t.c., I read a horror story of a place that tried to fit an alarm on a 2005 car that was obviously canbus, so they tapped into each circuit and fitted an old style +12v alarm, it worked, however after a day or two, the owner reported the windscreen wipers would come on and off without being asked to, the instrument cluster would go mad and so on, the dealer was kind enough to change modules, but when they kept blowing, it was obvious that the alarm install had basically ruined the integrity of bus communication.
The answer was to fit a canbus alarm in the first place, but it was too late.
We live in a time where auto electronics have moved on and believe me there are installers who are up to date, but also some who struggle, when it comes to integrating aftermarket stuff, such as headunits/alarms e.t.c.

If and when I change to a W204, I would probably get the experts on here to add devices such as DAB, TV, Multimedia interface e.t.c.
It is just safer that way.

 

[noogieman]

Hello Mr. Cyberflex.
Thanks for explaining the easy way about canbus.

I spoke with a bloke at the stealership today he told me it wouldn't be a problem to retrofit the APS 30 deck.
Just plug n play he said.

When I asked him about canbus he told me he wasn't sure about my car having canbus?

He also said that the radio is not affected by canbus if I understood him correct.
As long as I have D2B and the radio have this slot then it's only rock 'n' roll he said!

Do you know by any chance or if you don't know, how to find out what pin connector number is for each speed signal pulse and the reverse signal?
Maybe it's the same pin number in the same place and order for CLK 208 and E-class 210 fitted in the ISO socket?


I know that my BE4715 has been shipped today, so maybe within 3 days I'll might have it?

The BE4715 comes with the square metal slot on backside next to the ISO plugs!
This square slot is for the D2B plug?

The wiclic plug connection is it on the right side end next to the ISO plugs?

There is also a round metal plug sticking out to the left side end this is for the standard antenna connection?

And the last small round connector in between the standard antenna
plug and square slot on the other side what is this small round connection?

No one has a picture of the backside of the APS 30 with all wires hooked up and with an explanation marked to each connector?

About technical knowledge for new automotive electronics it's very important to be up to date if a shop wants to stay alive and have customers!
About the owner you wrote about I bet he was ****** off with the shop whom installed the wrong alarm!
Incompetence that's the correct word for fu-- ups!
I bet this owner will not go back to that shop again.

Anyway thanks a million for the input you gave me.
You rock!
Cheers mate

 

[jaymanek]

If you get a manual for becker traffic, its pretty much the same..

I have the info at work as i recently installed an APS30 in a W123 model but i just googled a manual for it.

In your case the unit will just be plug and play, you should find that the ISO plug already has the speed pulse there.

All you will need is a universal GPS antenna.

 

[noogieman]

If you get a manual for becker traffic, its pretty much the same..

I have the info at work as i recently installed an APS30 in a W123 model but i just googled a manual for it.

In your case the unit will just be plug and play, you should find that the ISO plug already has the speed pulse there.

All you will need is a universal GPS antenna.

Hey Mr. Jaymanek!
You've got some seksi old skool Benzes.
Damn!
I love those 126 SEC's types!
So freekin cool cars!
One of my all time favorite Benzes!

And the R107 what a beauty!
And so goes for the 124 E500!
a real Autobahn killa'
Stick to them and don't ever sell them!


About the manual can you link me where I can download it in English?
I will get an German manual with the navigator,so no undestanding for me!

I recently bought this universal antenna,
I will link the ebay page.
GPS Antenne Wiclic für Bec ker Mercedes Sony MEX usw.. bei eBay.de: Einbau-Navigationssysteme (endet 08.05.10 13:46:40 MESZ)
It has a gain of 28 db +-3
Seller says it's very powerful!
Is this a strong antenna?
Or is it standard performance?
Do you know if they are waterproof?

I saw another antenna from another auction, seller claims it's waterproof?
Aren't they all safe from liquid?
Here is the link:
GPS Antenne WICLIC Becker JVC Traffic Pro APS30 / #8 bei eBay.de: Einbau-Navigationssysteme (endet 21.04.10 03:28:53 MESZ)

I also bought the original MB stereo tools!
They were really cheap.

Thanks

 

[jaymanek]

Thanks!


only one problem with those antennas, if i remember, tje APS 30 takes a square ended plug.. I had this issue... luckily i had an old Mercedes GPS lead so i cut it and joined it to the antenna.

 

[cyberflex]

Hi Kowalski,
Just to say that it is extremely likely that it will be plug and play, one of the reasons I love this place is because of contributors like jaymanek, I have learned a fair bit from threads he and others like him have contributed to. From threads I have read that he has contributed to, I can say he knows his stuff, so I think we may be at the end of your quest for answers.
Just to add, I agree that the square metal slot is the D2B socket.
As everything is iso, it is going to be easy, you can always check when you check your cars power iso to see if it has a wire in pin position A1, which is for speed dependant volume control. ISO A is power, ISO B is speakers, each iso has 8 positions/pins, as you look at the back of the head unit ISO A will be at the bottom, ISO B will be above, normally the D2B fibre connection will be at the same level as ISO A. So just make sure you have a wire at position 1 on ISO A, then you have your speed pulse. The metal round eminance will be for the fm aerial.
I think you will be fine now.