ignition problem infra red key 2003 E220 CDI

[hfw]

A problem has just started with my ignition - when I put the key into the ignition nothing happens. Fortunately after a few attemps I get the "Zzu" noise and everything is fine.

When I pull the key out sometimes I do not get the "Zzu" noise.

I am very worried that this problem will not get better - has anybody got any ideas as to what the problem is and if so is it a main dealer job

Hope someone can help

 

[tech123]

do you have a spare key, does this behave the same way?

 

[television]

Hello and welcome, do you have more that one key, if so have you tried the other one

 

[hfw]

Thanks very much for the swift replies

I only have the one key - the £150.00 price tag for a spare put me off buying a second.

Do you think the re is a fair chance that it might be the Key? if so then I could bite the bullet and get it booked into a dealership.

If it isn't the key what else might it be

 

[tech123]

there's a fair chance that the infrared part of the key is starting to fail. you won't need to book your car in, just order a new key. you will need your V5 and I.D. (passport, driving licence) the other possibility is the ignition switch (about £280 i think)

 

[television]

there's a fair chance that the infrared part of the key is starting to fail. you won't need to book your car in, just order a new key. you will need your V5 and I.D. (passport, driving licence) the other possibility is the ignition switch (about £280 i think)

Actually the infra red is not part of the starting, the car has DAS and the key is recognized by the ring on the outer part of the switch. When the ign switch does not recognize the key nothing happens so the fault could be the switch

 

[Diesel Benz]

Actually the infra red is not part of the starting, the car has DAS and the key is recognized by the ring on the outer part of the switch. When the ign switch does not recognize the key nothing happens so the fault could be the switch

Are you sure the IR is not part of the DAS? I agree that the remote door locks is different, it only works if the key has batteries while the DAS part is not dependent on key batteries. Still (I've looked at W210 and newer cars) IR communications would be used between the key and EIS where the key is powered by the electromagnetic field from EIS.

The key anyway would need to be recoginsed first before it even turns. I could see the key being faulty as well as the the EIS. Testing with a spare key would help.

If I was the owner of the car, I would order a second key in any case. If the current key appears faulty, I would dump it and order a new spare key (or you could maintain the key that is not working completely, coded and active).

 

[television]

Are you sure the IR is not part of the DAS? I agree that the remote door locks is different, it only works if the key has batteries while the DAS part is not dependent on key batteries. Still (I've looked at W210 and newer cars) IR communications would be used between the key and EIS where the key is powered by the electromagnetic field from EIS.

The key anyway would need to be recoginsed first before it even turns. I could see the key being faulty as well as the the EIS. Testing with a spare key would help.

If I was the owner of the car, I would order a second key in any case. If the current key appears faulty, I would dump it and order a new spare key (or you could maintain the key that is not working completely, coded and active).

I have just taken the battery out of mine and the car starts OK.
The recognition coil is the large one that sends a signal to the key that is tuned to the correct frequency.

OK the key could still be faulty

 

[DansSlk]

I'm quite confident IR is used in the authentication i had better check before i say yes/no for sure (i really should know from memory), question is why put an IR window on the EIS if its all RF.

I'd replace the key first since its the cheapest option and its always nice to have a spare (you wont find yourself unable to start the car with a flat key battery because of the inductive loop in the EIS but setting the alarm off to get in is embarrassing) and if you have no luck with it then replace the EIS.

 

[television]

I'm quite confident IR is used in the authentication i had better check before i say yes/no for sure (i really should know from memory), question is why put an IR window on the EIS if its all RF.

I'd replace the key first since its the cheapest option and its always nice to have a spare (you wont find yourself unable to start the car with a flat key battery because of the inductive loop in the EIS but setting the alarm off to get in is embarrassing) and if you have no luck with it then replace the EIS.

As I have said,mine starts with no battery in, the idea came in 1998 when we still had the flip out key, and the battery could do nothing to a key blade

 

[Dieselman]

I'm quite confident IR is used in the authentication i had better check before i say yes/no for sure (i really should know from memory), question is why put an IR window on the EIS if its all RF.

.

The DAS 3 system definately uses the IR for authentication. Power is drawn inductivly via the ignition switch.

The problem here could be key for the steering lock withdrawl but sounds more EIS or lock motor for steering lock application.

 

[television]

The DAS 3 system definately uses the IR for authentication. Power is drawn inductivly via the ignition switch.

The problem here could be key for the steering lock withdrawl but sounds more EIS or lock motor for steering lock application.

Why does my car start with no battery in then

 

[hfw]

if it helps to diagnose the problem, when the fault occurs the key will not turn

 

[DansSlk]

The DAS 3 system definately uses the IR for authentication. Power is drawn inductivly via the ignition switch.

The problem here could be key for the steering lock withdrawl but sounds more EIS or lock motor for steering lock application.

Yep i was just going to post up saying I've checked to be sure and the IR is used.

Why does my car start with no battery in then

That would be the inductive loop, car powers the key.

Works similar to the system you see for hearing aids.

if it helps to diagnose the problem, when the fault occurs the key will not turn

That would be the key not getting correctly authenticated because of a fault, as before first try a new key then a new EIS.

 

[Diesel Benz]

Yep i was just going to post up saying I've checked to be sure and the IR is used.

That would be the inductive loop, car powers the key.

Works similar to the system you see for hearing aids.

I actually mentioned this on post 7 but a second opinion from a real expert is always useful.

Anyway, one could assume that the DAS part would work equally as "on other cars, through the inductive loop power AND signalling and the IR was only to transfer key dependent info or similar. However this discussion reminds me performing a test when the same thing was "argued" some time ago (another forum), I put a piece of paper to block the IR from the key but allowing me to put the key to the slot anyway. The key did not turn, meaning the DAS did not recognise the key. The paper could not block any RF signalling that other cars would use. Actually I consider this an MB safety feature, it is impossible to eavesdrop the IR communication between the key and the EIS while a sensitive receiver close to the key could monitor an RF based communication. On the other hand, KG communications can anyway be monitored and sufficient protection needs to be built for that anyway.

You may try to find an MB training video on the topic, titled
"210_80b smartkey.mpg". I did find hits with google but only outdated...

 

[DansSlk]

Actually I consider this an MB safety feature, it is impossible to eavesdrop the IR communication between the key and the EIS while a sensitive receiver close to the key could monitor an RF based communication. On the other hand, KG communications can anyway be monitored and sufficient protection needs to be built for that anyway.

Agreed with 100%

 

[Mercedes cozy]

A friend of mine had the same problem,

Just to cut the log story short.

He found another car in the breakers and repalced the following parts.

1. Key fob
2. The bit that the key fob fits into.
3. steering lock attached to the coloum.
4. Main Ecu

All these parts are interlinked.

After fiiting these bits the car started with no problem, and the key operated as normal.

 

[television]

I took the one that I have to pieces the photo cell can be seen and the the IR transfer rod.

Well at least we know for sure now how they work, and that the fault is alway in this inductive part of the set up.

This still leaves the problem that could be the key or the switch, the key being the cheaper option, but can only add to the cost if it is the switch

 

[television]

I keep thinking about this, the tube that sends the IR signal down to the switch on the one that I have has a very dirty and greasy scratched face, if this face was cleaned along with the face of the IR lens on the remote, could this solve the intermittent fault.

The lens in the switch is spring loaded , but could be done with a stick cleaner

Just a thought, and cost nothing to try

 

[DrNick]

I had the same problem on my old E300. Cleaning the end of the key and the ignition barrel IR window seemed to sort it out. There was a lot of grime on it!

I keep thinking about this, the tube that sends the IR signal down to the switch on the one that I have has a very dirty and greasy scratched face, if this face was cleaned along with the face of the IR lens on the remote, could this solve the intermittent fault.

The lens in the switch is spring loaded , but could be done with a stick cleaner

Just a thought, and cost nothing to try