Increased Sanctions Proposed for Mobile Phone Use

[cb1965]

Yawn. Go make a cup of tea or something but stay off threads that don't interest you.

Or may be you lot should stop having the same threads over and over again so you can trot out the same self righteous opinions. Does it give you a sense of importance or something else that is lacking in your real life?

Now cue the half witted reply and lots of thanks given by the other 'challenged' gang members.

 

[HB]

I ride to work on the cycle path alongside a dual carriageway a road.
The amount of people driving and texting in the traffic horrifies me.
It does tend to be younger drivers doing it.

The other week I saw an AMG GT being erratically driven by a bloke in his early twenties. Handset held to his ear - obviously couldn't work out the bluetooth

No,he's a drug dealer with 2 phones.

 

[HB]

It's not so much the law, but whether anyone is actually interested in enforcing the law.

I have a Dash Cam installed in my car, primarily to protect me should I be involved in a collision or witness an accident, giving me CCTV footage to back any claim.

Over the last year, I have witnessed two major incidents where another motorist has almost caused a collision, the worst being the Porsche driver overtaking a line of traffic at high speed (we were doing 60 mph in NSL, and I estimate his speed in excess of 100 mph, as he left us standing and disappeared up the road at a rate of knots). Oncoming vehicles were being forced to swerve on to the hard shoulder.

Now you would think that the Police would be interested in that bit of bad behaviour, especially when it is caught on CCTV, wouldn't you? Obviously not...

They sent me a form to fill in, and it asks a number of questions, which it states, 'If you cannot answer yes to all these questions, a prosecution is unlikely'.

One of those questions states, 'Do you have independent witnesses to verify your statement?'. How on earth do you get an independent witness when you are travelling at 60 mph. Are you expected to brake hard, jump out and ask the dog walker if he just saw a car speeding at over 100 mph?

The fact is that the Police have engineered their reporting system to put people off reporting incidents. Unless there is a collision, injuries to persons or even death, the Police just aren't interested.

I have given up reporting to the Police now. Two forms have been thrown in the bin, and even calling 101 to report a neighbour's burglar alarm going off met with a indifference, basically being told that unless I could spot someone scrummaging around the vacant property, they couldn't be bothered to attend.

Policing in the 21st century has definitely taken a nose dive.

As for laws, why make new ones if no one is going to police them? The reason so many people flout laws is because they know that they will get away with it.

We have enough money to bomb people left right and centre but cut police funding. It's a joke.

 

[moonloops]

Anyone caught using a mobile whilst driving should be forced to use an iPhone - problem solved !

 

[Deleted member 6183]

I didn't intend to get drawn into this thread as I have used carphones regularly for decades without incident.

However, it seems that the point is being missed by increasing fines/points for using a phone in the car because this approach just won't work with the casual users. Just like the introduction of drink driving laws didn't work at first.

The solution is education and encouragement of a culture change, just like the DD campaigns which have worked for the vast majority.

 

[Carrsey]

Policing in the 21st century has definitely taken a nose dive.

.

And set to get a whole lot worse..

 

[bpsorrel]

^^ That's comforting...

For the record, IF it was better policed, I would make texting while driving (or any other form of writing ie: FB, Twitter etc) an imprisonable offence. The amount of a$$holes I see daily swerving and weaving around the road due to texting is horrendous and something needs to be done to stop it.

 

[st13phil]

Some interesting discussion over the last 24 hours or so and at least some of you have got the point I was making that without effective detection of offending, the size of any resulting sanction is largely irrelevant in terms of modifying behaviour – unless, of course, it becomes totally disproportionate, such as summary execution!

What tends to get forgotten over time is that the law forbidding the use of hand-held mobile phones whilst driving was introduced simply to make it easier for the Police to secure a conviction when they detected inappropriate driving which they believed to be caused by the driver’s use of a mobile phone. The problem we have now is one of scope creep in that use of a phone per se has become the inappropriate behaviour, rather than bad driving resulting from use of the device. Remember also that the Police have always had the possibility of reporting for DWDCA or Not in Proper Control and can (and do) still use that when appropriate.

The fact is that interactive communication of any kind has the potential to affect a driver’s performance, but the key word in that sentence is “potential”. It’s a truism that any form of distraction has the potential to adversely affect a driver’s performance, but a competent driver manages those distractions by a combination of familiarity and not engaging in distracting activities during times of high workload. For example, a competent driver familiarises himself with the location and operation of the vehicle light switch before needing to use it, and doesn’t attempt to retune the radio while approaching a busy junction with multiple hazards present. Trivial examples perhaps, but it illustrates my point.

Some have made mention of the exemption for Police and Emergency Service use of two-way radios and the fact that those drivers have been trained and can therefore carry out two-way communication while driving in a way that other human beings cannot. I would argue that their competence in this activity is more to do with familiarity (through practice) than training, in a similar way that a pianist or guitar player develops the ability to sing while playing effectively by doing it repeatedly. To suggest that anyone other than a serving Police officer can develop the ability for two-way communication while driving safely and use it appropriately is patent nonsense.

My contention is that the act of carrying out two-way communication does not automatically degrade a driver’s performance to such an extent that it constitutes unacceptable risk, but rather that it depends upon circumstances. I do concede, however, that hand-held mobile phones – especially smart phones – can and do represent hard-to-resist distractions to a large sector of society and that some form of regulation of their use by drivers is probably sensible.

So, my own view is that there are three primary problems that need to be addressed regarding mobile phone use while driving, and none of those are to do with the size of sanctions:

1. Encourage self-regulation. Recognise that it’s simply impossible to detect and act on every infraction and instead engage in effective education and reinforcement of the message regarding the potential for communication devices to cause dangerous distraction to a driver. Public information messages on the radio, TV and social media are all good tools in this regard but are largely not used. Unless and until the raft of people who don’t presently see texting or updating their facebook profile while driving as any sort of problem start to do so, matters won’t improve
2. The current law is unacceptably vague regarding a definition of “use”, and in particular hasn’t kept pace with the development of multi-function devices. For example, most smart phones can act as a sat-nav device (which is commonplace in vehicles being driven) and there is even specific legislation permitting the use of such displays. Serious thought needs to be given as to how the distinction can be effectively and unambiguously drawn between use of the device in an acceptable way (as a sat-nav for example) and using it in an unacceptable way. And, probably more importantly, how does a Police officer detect and distinguish between allowed and disallowed use? Punishing someone for using their smartphone as a sat-nav when their driving was otherwise acceptable is both illogical and counter-productive
3. Reinstate Police Traffic patrols. This is less about detecting the specific offence of using a hand-held mobile phone and more about detecting and discouraging bad driving

One last thought: perhaps the current law on mobile phone use by drivers really is unworkable, and we should return to reporting for the underlying offence of DWDCA or Not in Proper Control?

 

[Carrsey]

Some have made mention of the exemption for Police and Emergency Service use of two-way radios and the fact that those drivers have been trained and can therefore carry out two-way communication while driving in a way that other human beings cannot. I would argue that their competence in this activity is more to do with familiarity (through practice) than training, in a similar way that a pianist or guitar player develops the ability to sing while playing effectively by doing it repeatedly. To suggest that anyone other than a serving Police officer can develop the ability for two-way communication while driving safely and use it appropriately is patent nonsense.


QUOTE]
I haven't and not sure anyone else has made the comment that no other driver could do it. Its more the fact that police drivers have been tested in the said circumstances.

 

[st13phil]

I haven't and not sure anyone else has made the comment that no other driver could do it. Its more the fact that police drivers have been tested in the said circumstances.

I don't think you did make any such comment and I take your point about being tested, too. My comment was made more to emphasise the fact that blind assumption regarding the capabilities of any given individual often results in an incorrect conclusion.

 

[Stratman]

Would 'training' be a defence for an off duty police officer done for phoning while driving?

 

[Carrsey]

Would 'training' be a defence for an off duty police officer done for phoning while driving?

I would hope not, because the exemption is given to police to carry out a policing purpose. So off duty the same rules should apply.

I am trained and tested to drive at 150mph, but in my own car can still get done the same as everyone else..

Simple answer, if you are off duty, you should know better and would be very hypocritical to perform an act that you prosecute others for..

Also one point I missed, shouldn't be on the phone on or off duty when driving..

 

[Carrsey]

Also worth noting (at present at least) this offence can be dealt with via means of an awareness course if its your first time.. As there is a big push to educate rather than prosecute..

 

[219]

Also worth noting (at present at least) this offence can be dealt with via means of an awareness course if its your first time.. As there is a big push to educate rather than prosecute..

Only if you live south of the border . No awareness courses in Scotland .

 

[219]

Would 'training' be a defence for an off duty police officer done for phoning while driving?

Unless it were in relation to some police purpose ( like reporting an offence or calling for reinforcements ) , no .

I know that one of our guys who had been caught speeding in his own car was contemplating citing his emergency response training in court as if it allowed him some latitude - until it was pointed out that he , more than the general public , should know better and therefore would likely be dealt with more severely !

 

[Red C220]

Also worth noting (at present at least) this offence can be dealt with via means of an awareness course if its your first time.. As there is a big push to educate rather than prosecute..

Indeed it was the awareness course that my business partner took (which was actually for speeding) during which he said they spent more time discussing the uses of phones in cars than speeding.

So it looks like they are choosing education but at the same time pushing for an overall ban.

They did make it clear it was a very grey area simply as these devices have progressed in design, complexity and abundance quicker than legislation has been written to account for it.

It was also made clear that if you were involved in an accident and it was later discovered the phone was in use (whatever this means) then effectively the book would be thrown at you.

 

[Deleted member 65149]

It's interestIng to note from most posts here that people are generally concerned about whether or not they get caught, not whether or not their actions contribute to an incident and maybe even death. People are more worried about fines and points than they are about ruined lives. I think this reflects the feelings of most drivers, whether car enthusiasts or not. Surely this attitude needs to change, but I don't know how. Reading other posts I get the feeling that a very high proportion of members here replace their tyres, usually at high costs, long before they're down to the legal limit. It's because we know how dangerous low tread depth can be. Yet, apart from a few exceptions, so many chose to ignore the evidence that demonstrates how dangerous in-car phone use can be, mostly citing themselves as being far too good a driver to let the phone conversation distract them! They know there's little chance of getting caught so they're not concerned. Why not be as safe as they are with tyres?

 

[Deleted member 65149]

Regarding the "safe" use of hands-free, I have to cite the case of my old boss. His whole career has been in the car business. His personal transport is usually a Porsche or Ferrari. He spent many years track racing as a hobby. He claims to be one of the best drivers on the road. Now I once had an instructor shout after me "Don't you know the meaning of fear?" as I rapidly abseiled down a precipice on my first descent, but I regularly wished I'd been wearing brown trousers when a passenger to my old boss. He drove everywhere far too fast, without any thought for road positioning and other vehicles. And he was on the phone a lot. He was regularly told off by the boys in blue, but never booked. When he had a phone pressed to his ear he generally slowed from 100 to 85, and slowed even more as the intensity of the conversation increased. So he often dropped from 100 in the outside lane of the M25 down to 60 - still in the outside lane. When he finally had cars with Bluetooth hands-free I hoped he'd improve. But he was no different. He spent just as long chatting to his mates about his last round at Wentworth, and he still slowed dramatically with no thought for other vehicles. He's had quite a few accidents, fortunately non serious so far. But it's obvious that his driving is just as seriously affected using hands-free as not. He denies it all of course, because he's concentrating so much on his conversation that he doesn't notice what's happening to his driving. I'm certain he's not alone. I chose to leave his employ before he killed me or I had to witness him killing someone else.

I live very happily without my phone when I'm driving. I wouldn't be so happy without my legs.

 

[190]

I agree that distractions result in drivers unconsciously slowing down. It's a tell tale sign that when they suddenly speed up and are no longer a mobile traffic jam they have just put the phone down.

I don't know what the answer is. You see some vehicles that have pulled over in some incredibly stupid places to use the phone. I'm not of the generation that sees the attraction of needing to be in constant electronic communication, so that's one blessing I suppose.

 

[Charles Morgan]

I had a German colleague who was always late and who drove his BMW 750 at the limiter on the autobahns, while on the phone. I travelled with him once only, never again.

I recall some years ago being called on my handsfree just as I was coming off the M25 to head south into London on the M1. By the time I finished the call I was aware that I had just passed the sign to Luton Airport, 15 miles to the North. I had absolutely no recall of turning the wrong way and the journey while on the phone. A very salutary reminder of how distracting even a handsfree call can be.