Insurance woes

[st13phil]

What we're talking about aren't massive modifications

I totally agree. I also think it's petty, but motor insurers don't work in logical ways. For example, it costs more to insure a MkIV VW Golf that started life with a PD TDI 115 engine that has a tuning box added that takes it to 140bhp than it does to insure a car that came from the factory with a PD TDI 150 engine even though in all other respects the cars are identical - and I'm including suspension, brakes and trim in that statement. Further, some insurers won't insure the first car at all because it's "modified".

Your insurance is voided, as are all your other insurance policies, you are sued for the cost of the insurance claims and you are financially ruined for life.

I think (but I stand to be corrected), that the insurer would not be able to void the policy in respect of 3rd-party risks in such circumstances. For example, it's totally illegal to drive while under the influence of drink or drugs but if a 3rd-party is injured or their property damaged by a drunk driver the insurance co can't just say "you didn't abide by the terms of the policy, tough" and walk away. Similarly, the fact that someone has changed the rear bumper on their car for an alternative type would be viewed as immaterial to the question of them having mown someone down and a court would give an insurance co that tried to void a policy on the basis of a non-material matter very short shrift in a court. And the insurance co's know that.

What people seem to be missing in this discussion is that no insurance company is bound to accept your business when you ask them to insure you. They can also stipulate conditions under which they will cease to accept your business even when they have accepted it before. If I have my car insured and want to modify it then I ask the insurer if that modification will attract any special conditions. I can argue the validty of anything they say at that stage and then take whatever course of action I believe to be appropriate. If I tell them "oh, I've made these modifications to my car" and they say "we won't insure modified cars, so get lost" I don't really have much choice in the matter.

 

[Uberwagon]

Hold on, changing bumpers so your car appears to be a more expensive, bigger risk model is not a small minor difference. It isn't a slightly different style standard grill etc.

There's no excuse, changing the physical appearence of the car in an obvious way is asking for trouble, it's not the insurance company being petty at all.

Dave!

 

[st13phil]

Dave, I didn't say it made no difference at all, I agree that it's the insurance co's privilege to consider that it represents a different risk for theft or own damage; what I said was that a court would not consider it a material change that would warrant voiding the policy in the event that the driver of said modified vehicle mowed someone down. Two different things.

 

[Colin_b]

I suspect Cumbria attracts lower car insurance ratings than a suburb of London.
I did shop around and the quote I got for the policy details suited me better than some of the cheaper prices I got. In this ultra-competitive world a lower price usually means that something is not as good. Not always I grant you, but usually. Unless you go through with a magnifying glass in small print, you are unlikely to find these shortfalls until you come to claim. I have had reason to claim twice with my current insurer and both times was dealt with in an exemplary fashion. Thats worth more to me than a few quid saved.
But thats me. Each to his own.

I think Cumbria is chaper, makes sense. Doesn't negate the need to shop around at all - as you say compare like with like, and beware of 'we are the cheapest'.

None the less, different marketing arms of the ins. companies tend towards specific demographics - ensure you aren't in the wrong one, to avoid the discouragement pricing. Buyer beware, of course.

 

[DSLiverpool]

From personal experience I had Mitsubishi VR4 salon a ralliart official UK import.

I called What Car? insurance who couldnt find the car on any database so agreed to insure it as a V6 24v model at £800 - I got the cert it said Mitsi 24v VR4

I ran over (straddled) a brick on the M56 (in hindsight I should have run over it) took out spoiler, turbo (1), undertray and exhaust downpipe - £3k

I was bricking it over the assessor visit but maybe i was lucky but he came, asked about the accident and signed it off - thsi was Norwich Union in 2001 - its probably stricter now ?

Good luck with the quotes

 

[cjab98]

I totally agree. I also think it's petty, but motor insurers don't work in logical ways. For example, it costs more to insure a MkIV VW Golf that started life with a PD TDI 115 engine that has a tuning box added that takes it to 140bhp than it does to insure a car that came from the factory with a PD TDI 150 engine even though in all other respects the cars are identical - and I'm including suspension, brakes and trim in that statement. Further, some insurers won't insure the first car at all because it's "modified"

Motor insurance companies do work logically, they are based on statistics.

With your comparison above you're overlooking one key element. A person who modifies a car (especially a mod that increases power) is more likely to be an enthusiastic driver than someone who drives a standard car.
The cost of the quote isn't just based on the power output, it's also based on the percieved risk of the driver. As they cannot determine what each individual is like, they group people statistically.
Someone who chips a car is dropped straight into the category where you find all the boy racers with their performance mods, leading to a higher insurance premium.

 

[KillerHERTZ]

Thanks for your replies, it certainly has turned into in in-dept discussion!

The very fact I have declared the change in bumper is that I do not want to be dishonest and have any problems should I have any kind of crash in the future, this isnt an issue. My main 'beef' is losing 10months NCB, which is a hell of a lot when you only have 1 year already.

I am in 2 minds whether to get them to swap it back for the remaining 2 months and tell them that I have put the orignal bumper back on. The problem is I have already swapped over insurance companies now as I needed the car today (I do have a 14 day termination of the policy, but would I be able to get back with the old company now? I doubt it!), I didnt really think the whole situation through as I never in a 100 years expected to have a claim refused!

How long will I have to declare that I have had insurance refused in the future? as long as I have this car?

Thanks again.

KHz, on your old policy could it have been possible to change it to TPFT for the last two months? That would have at least given you the 2ys NCD at the end of the policy.

After my crash/write off 2 years ago, I wouldnt want to tempt fate with TPFT to be honest!

Out of curiosity could you tell me how much it would cost to insure a basic 430 please?

Me to insure you mean? E430?

 

[The G.F.P]

So you think their assessor wouldn't notice 17" rims on a car that didn't have them as standard. I bet they would.

read it again

i ment that 17" merc alloys on a car that already had 15" merc alloys would not stick out as abnormal and if i had to make a claim and they were pointed out as not standard i would just say they are merc alloys on a merc and they came with the car when i bought it

sometimes i wonder if you ever see a post that you dont miss read and try and pick holes in

They didnt on my last W202

None of the mods on my previous car were noticed. 17" AMG styling IIs, AMG styling package and C43 exhaust.

All the bloke said was that he thought was a nice example and a shame to have to write it off!

If they were common factory options (e.g. plenty of 202s came out the factory with the optional 17" AMGs) they'd have to be particularly zealous to start asking questions. Of course if they were after market 19s and were damaged I wouldn't consider unreasonable to refuse to replace them (if they weren't declared).

my point exactly

 

[Dryce]

Motor insurance companies do work logically, they are based on statistics.

Yes. Marketing ones.

As they cannot determine what each individual is like, they group people statistically.

Or they just think of a number.

The problem is that grouping thing. Grouping somebody who takes pride in their car with somebody who takes pride in burning up the local high street isn't necessarily statistically valid.

As long as there isn't much of a *market* for people who change their rear bumpers then there is no business incentive to work out a meaningful or practical number from which to derive a sensible price.

 

[Adam230K]

I remember when someone hit my door on the c200, and i put in the claim, they asked me if it was modified since i bought it, i said no. They then had a look at it, at one of their certified garages, and they gave me a call saying "there seems to be a non-factory exhaust on there sir, is this a modification you have added?" I just said, erm no, i didnt even know that wasn't factory, its been on the car since i bought it. And i heard nothing of it again

 

[The G.F.P]

yup just claim ignorance and you will get away with it

but everytime i put non merc wheels on them i always ring up and tell them

the current lot cost me just under £1,000 and when i told norwich union they said there would be a £48 extra cost

i said so if its knicked you will pay for the wheels, they said yes

then i asked have you any idea how much an original set of 17" amg alloys would cost from merc without tyres, she said no and i told her about twice as much as the price of my new wheels & tyres

 

[Fredhead]

To declare or not to declare

Last year, I had a damage to my front bumper and had it replaced. I called my insurance company first to find out what would happen to my ncb and future premiums. I was very surprised to hear that even if you don't claim, the very fact that you have registered an accident will have a knock on effect on future premiums as the incident would be logged on the system.

Thankfully I had yet to give my car registration details and stopped the call asap. I guess you have to weigh up what the benefit - to - loss ratio is before declaring an incident that may effect you adversely.

Of course, this doesn't apply to incidents where if you did not declare what happened, you may face very serious consequences.

 

[Corrado]

How long will I have to declare that I have had insurance refused in the future? as long as I have this car?

It may be insurance company-dependent, but its generally "within the past 5 years"

After my crash/write off 2 years ago, I wouldnt want to tempt fate with TPFT to be honest!

Fair play. Obviously its down to personal circumstance.

This accident history in itself must be loading your insurance, so the £900 for 1yrs no-claims might not be so unreasonable

Its a real pain that when you try to do the right thing you get stuffed for doing so. Best of luck for a satisfactory result.

 

[KillerHERTZ]

Its a real pain that when you try to do the right thing you get stuffed for doing so. Best of luck for a satisfactory result.

Thats exactly what is pissing me off, I have had it fitted for 4 months and I was washing it the other day and felt guilty

Unless you were a Merc geek, theres no way you could tell it wasnt the 'normal' bumper

Will give them a call tomorrow!

 

[KillerHERTZ]

Just got off the phone with them, its too late the orignal Policy has been cancelled now so there isnt anything they can do

Gutted, if only I had known this would have happened in the 1st place

 

[LeighW]

That's a pain mate. I guess you just need a more 'mod-friendly' insurance company.

Slightly off topic, I have just been getting quotes online with my existing insurer (Admiral), as I'm thinking of changing my car. Actually, make that 'was' thinking of changing.

Last year my policy was £380 for my clk320. I put in my existing details to get a quote out of interest, and it came back as £347. Then I amended it to declare a non-fault bump I had. (One of my neighbours bumped into the back of me at the end of my road, only slight scuff to my back bumper, repaired and resprayed via my insurance, other party admitted liability). Now, bear in mind this was obviously not my fault, the premium increases from £347 to £429! How the hell can that be right, I'm penalised for some dozy neighbour bumping into the back of me?? Not impressed.

Nor am I impressed that a CLK430 convertible will cost me £750 to insure. Looks like the 320 will be staying.

 

[KillerHERTZ]

Its always the same, ive had someone go into the back of me years back - its almost like a fine for a being a pain in the ass - in the eyes of the insurance companies.

 

[Adam230K]

I've always looked at the entire concept of "Insurance" as Legal Thievery, they can invalidate people's insurance and refuse payouts on the most pathetic reasons, and they also change your premiums for the most pathetic reasons. Just thinking about it too much REALLY irritates me...

Sorry to hear about your dilema Hertz... its a pain

 

[Uberwagon]

This was discussed on Pistonheads I think a long while ago.

They had numbers which basically said that those in non fault accidents were more likely to claim on average than those with non fault. Just what the statistics told them.

Oddly, my insurance dropped 600 a year AFTER I was banned for 28 days.

I didn't moan, but even i'd find it hard to argue for the logic in that.

Dave!

 

[Shude]

Just got off the phone with them, its too late the orignal Policy has been cancelled now so there isnt anything they can do

Ask them for confirmation of the number of years and MONTHS of no-claims you have with them, some insurance companies will accept part years and then you'll be losing nothing (maybe a month).