Ive been done... help

[jaymanek]

Brother sold a car whilst I was on my honeymoon.

Guy telephones and pays over phone with two credit cards.
Sends a guy with a car transporter to pick up the car.

today I receive a letter from my card company saying this transaction was fraudulent and they will be taking the money back from me...

Needless to say im a little shaken..

Streamline say they cant help as its a telephone transation even though all the details given were genuine, it was not the guy who actually bought the car.

seems ive been the centre of a scam.. any advice?

 

[Will]

Who was the V5 form filled out to?

Just a start!

Have you contacted the Police?

What sort of cash are we talking here? Very high value?

Will

 

[lil.smartie]

Police would be 1st port of call, any cctv footage of transporter or contact details for that company? I guess someone signed for the collection of the car? Any other contact details other than those given as a billing address? Any land line phone no?

It's pants getting chargebacks, we have only ever lost a couple of £100 on them (crosses fingers) but I can't imagine losing that amount for a whole car!!!

Kate

 

[jaymanek]

It was filled out to the person that bought the car

contacted police, but they dont hold much hope as its fraud and it looks like the car has been sold on to a new owner.

Its a lot of money, 2000 S class... im still shaking

 

[Will]

It was filled out to the person that bought the car

contacted police, but they dont hold much hope as its fraud and it looks like the car has been sold on to a new owner.

Its a lot of money, 2000 S class... im still shaking

I'm certainly no legal expert - but - does the fact that the payment was fraudulent mean that the car has effectively been 'stolen'?

As you were the last legitimate legal owner are you entitled to re-possess the vehicle?

I have no idea I'm afraid - just speculating.

Again, the address on the logbook/V5 - is this the same as the delivery address the transporter driver delivered to?

There is a bottom to all this somewhere, I hope you get it sorted.

Will

 

[talltimtam]

Did the guy who picked up the car show any ID or signed anything ?

 

[bigharry]

where did the car get registered in its new keepers details?
if its near me ill pop and have a look

 

[jaymanek]

It seems he sold on the vehicle before I even had chance to send off the new keeper part, so it was never in his name.
Im sure the addresses he gave were false... although looking on google maps, they do exist.
One is in TN12 - Kent and the work address is in W9 in London.

The transport driver was his own, all he did was sign my receipt to say he collected it.

My insurance say im not covered as its fraud, only theft in the traditional sense is covered.

 

[Chattonmill]

Unfortunately as you handed the Keys and V5 over it will not be insured, My brother had this when he sold a CRX Vtec, Bankers draft was stolen froma building society and it bounced on him.
He got lucky as the guy tried to shift it on and the buyer call the police who picked the guy up when he deliverd it!
Goof luck on the recovery.

 

[jaymanek]

so does the car still belong to me then?

 

[C240Sport97]

if the credit card company approved the transaction, then surely it is their problem. They cannot subsequently make a failure in their security your problem.

or did you not get approval of the credit card company before you released the car?

 

[Chattonmill]

This seems to be a bit of a grey area, if the thief sold it on and the new owner bought it 'in good faith' then it would seem not. But saying that I have heard differing opinions.
Best to call the police and ask.

 

[Smiley]

Jay,
Sorry to hear this; you have been well and truly "done". It sounds like the guy who did this knows what he is doing. If he has sold the car on before you found out that his payment was not valid then he has transferred good title to the new owner. If it was sold after you found out then you can recover the car and the new "owner" does not have title. If the former then your only recourse is to find the guy who committed the fraud and take him to court very quickly before he spends your hard earned cash.
Given the sum involved I would get proper advice fast either CAB or your solicitor.
I am surprised that the card company can not help - presumably they authorised the transaction and this is obviously a scam if he bought the car from a car dealer and then immediately sold it on.
One more thing to check - is the new "owner" in on the scam or is he really an innocent party?

 

[davidjpowell]

I would sugest you speak to a specialist solicitor rather than the police. I suppose some of it is dependant on tracking the car down.

Hope it workes out for you - horrible thing to happen.

Kind regards

David

 

[dougal74]

so does the car still belong to me then?

Technically yes, you were the last legal owner. It was bought from you fraudulently and therefore you are entitled to recover your loss. The poor chap who bought it from your buyer is the most unfortunate party here. You should seek legal representation right away to contact the relevant authorities, DVLA, new keeper etc. You can't transfer good title if you purchased a car by fraud. The V5 does not indicate title, that can only be done by means of sworn statement of the type "free from any liens, other encumberances etc." in a sales invoice etc. which would have needed to have passed from Jay, to fraudster (in their name), to subsequent owner (again signed by the fraudster in their name).

You will of course need to prove the fraud before you can recover the car, but the police should impound the car (for forensics etc.) while they investigate.

I am surprised there was no request by the credit card issuer to telephone validate/authorise the purchase in addition to the electronic "cardholder not present" validation.

Oh and get the transport company on-side as unless they were paid cash they are likely to have been de-frauded aswell!

 

[jaymanek]

if the credit card company approved the transaction, then surely it is their problem. They cannot subsequently make a failure in their security your problem.

or did you not get approval of the credit card company before you released the car?

phone transactions are my liability but they did take almost two months to inform me...

 

[C240Sport97]

best not to ever do them then ...

phone transactions are my liability but they did take almost two months to inform me...

 

[jaymanek]

well I dont generally for anything more than a deposit, but I was on honeymoon..

 

[glojo]

Hi Jay,
Just a quick post to express my disgust in what has happened to you. Do you have legal cover regarding your business? You need to very quickly get legal advice but I do note a couple of very good posts although they contradict each other regarding ownership.

I wonder if there is any CCTV footage of the car transporter and its registration number?

I'm angry and chuntering, so betrs shut up.

Good luck getting this resolved

Regards
John

 

[dougal74]

well I dont generally for anything more than a deposit, but I was on honeymoon..

Check they haven't broken their own rules on not asking for a telephone confirmation of the account holder details as the value of the transaction and two repetitive transaction against the same cardholder (of two different cards) should have flagged against their "cardholder not present" security system.
In the event you can't recover your loss by means of seizing the car you might be able to pursue them for malpractice. However, they would likely only be liable for the amount above their security trigger threshold for each transaction.