Jag XF

[Rory]

more than any BMW (the 5 and 7 are both quite short of legroom),

A colleague of mine is 6'7" and he has, even bearing in mind his height, abnormally long upper leg length. He drives a 5 series BMW.

 

[verytalldave]

Without wishing to get too personal, my inside leg measurement is 35" and the best cars I have owned and driven for long distance comfort recently are my current C200K and a MK1 version of the Renault Scenic. A rather unlikely pair of bedfellows.

 

[television]

In their time the jags were great offering some luxuary at an affordable price.

I have been luck enough to own a XK120,140,150, E type, MK 7,7M,8,9,10, 420G, mk2 3.4,3.8,S type and around 50 XJ6 cars including the first ever to be built

For their time they were great cars and I have some super memories of them.

When I returned from Sweden I had the 300TE and I took a test drive in a 1994 XJ the dash rattled, the car tramped on bumps and it was horrible compared to my 300TE

 

[hawk20]

A colleague of mine is 6'7" and he has, even bearing in mind his height, abnormally long upper leg length. He drives a 5 series BMW.

I know, Ive seen tall or rather long legged people driving lots of different cars that are not right for them, with their thigh totally unsupported and often resting on the door. If I hadn't found Mercedes I would be doing the same.

And some don't notice. How many reviews mentioned that in the UK RHD models, the driving position in the 5 series is seriously offset (pedals not straight in front of driver). Most noticeable in the manual versions of course. Causes backache in many.

 

[gary350]

You will be glad to know that the E and XF are very similar in interior dimensions the XF 1" lower in the front same as the E in the back. Leg room the XF has 4 " more room in the front than the E and 4" less than the E in the back thats seats fully back. The XF is 3" wider in the front than the E and 3" wider in the back than the E.

gary

 

[big x]

And some don't notice. How many reviews mentioned that in the UK RHD models, the driving position in the 5 series is seriously offset (pedals not straight in front of driver). Most noticeable in the manual versions of course. Causes backache in many.

From the 13th Feb Autocar group test:

"The mercedes feels and looks by far the oldest... with endless expanses of surprisingly hard and not very nice-feeling plastic and the offset driving position (a standard E-class bugbear.)The Merc has excellent seats and ergonomics"

"The BMW has a smart well laid out cabin with an excellent driving position,instruments and seats"

"The Jag's sleek cabin and great controls are a winner"

adam

 

[hawk20]

From the 13th Feb Autocar group test:

"The mercedes feels and looks by far the oldest... with endless expanses of surprisingly hard and not very nice-feeling plastic and the offset driving position (a standard E-class bugbear.)The Merc has excellent seats and ergonomics"

"The BMW has a smart well laid out cabin with an excellent driving position,instruments and seats"

"The Jag's sleek cabin and great controls are a winner"

adam

Incredible and just plain wrong. The BMW is seriously offset. Try the manual and it really shows up.

 

[hawk20]

Here are some quotes from the AutoExpress road test on the XF: -
1. The ride is tauter than we expected, but this could be due to launch model’s large alloy wheels. The damping, however, is tuned to perfection. It isn’t soft and silent like a Mercedes, but still glides effortlessly over rough surfaces.

2. The XF is the beginning of a new era for Jaguar, despite being based on a modified version of the old S-Type’s platform.

3. Strong shoulder lines, a high rear and a shallow rear screen angle give it the stance of a coupe – although the slanted windscreen does restrict visibility and headroom.

4. However, despite the XF's lengthy body, packaging is weak. Rear headroom is only just tolerable, and legroom isn’t great.

 

[big x]

Incredible and just plain wrong. The BMW is seriously offset. Try the manual and it really shows up.

Not for me. The Mercedes manual on the other hand is a no go as the offsett is worse.

I dug out the full Whatcar group test to check your space claims and their measurements are :

Rear headroom MB 92cm "rear headroom isn't great"
Jag 92cm, BMW 95cm.

Front headroom MB 94cm, Jag 93cm, BMW 98cm

Front legroom MB 108cm, Jag 112cm, BMW 108cm

Rear legroom MB 78cm, Jag 74cm, BMW 78cm

Front width MB 145cm, Jag 148cm ,BMW 146cm

So from a drivers perspective the Jag has the most legroom and the widest cabin and is only 1 cm lower in the roof.
The BMW has the biggest cabin.

adam

 

[big x]

In general it was a very favourable review but once again lack of legroom (no good to me) and lack of headroom. Can't they measure humans? To me it is the stupid triumph of form over function. Swooping peugeot type roof looks good to some, but ruins practicality.

Actually you've clearly been fooled by the masterfully sleek and cat like design !
It's very spacious up front.

You also claim the chassis is old yet the Whatcar overall rankings give ride and handling scores of:

XF 5 stars
5-series 4 stars
W211 3stars

The BMW would no doubt rank higher if the harsh run flat tyres were ditched, however quote
" the XF is so eager to turn in to corners and zip from apex to apex that it makes the 525d feel positively clumsy...the BMW also suffers more bodyroll.
Low speed ride is firm but he Jaguar feels supple and stable on the motorway.
The XF is good at supressing suspension thud and has the smoothest engine of the four cars."

Whatcar verdict :

1st XF 2.7D. 5 stars. A brilliant combination of a sporting saloon and luxury limo. Refined, classy and well equipped, the XF is hard to fault in any area.

2nd 525d 4 stars. A tremendous car that loses out to the Jag by the slimmest of margins.

3rd E220 CDI 4 stars. A great long distance tourer but it feels out-classed by it's sprightlier rivals.

4th Audi A6 3 stars. Beaten in almost every respect by the Jaguar"

adam

 

[big x]

bump

 

[hawk20]

Whatcar verdict :

1st XF 2.7D. 5 stars. A brilliant combination of a sporting saloon and luxury limo. Refined, classy and well equipped, the XF is hard to fault in any area.

2nd 525d 4 stars. A tremendous car that loses out to the Jag by the slimmest of margins.

3rd E220 CDI 4 stars. A great long distance tourer but it feels out-classed by it's sprightlier rivals.

4th Audi A6 3 stars. Beaten in almost every respect by the Jaguar"

adam

Wonderfully fair to pit a 2.7 litre Jag and a 3 litre BMW detuned and called 2.5 against a 2.2 litre MB? Why not the E280 for a fair comparison?

AutoExpress Driver Power survey of owners puts the E class as top executive car, not the BMW.

And JD Power shows the BMW 5 series at 54th overall!

 

[big x]

Wonderfully fair to pit a 2.7 litre Jag and a 3 litre BMW detuned and called 2.5 against a 2.2 litre MB? Why not the E280 for a fair comparison?

Because of price matching. The 525D SE costs £32865 and the E220 CDI Elegance £33132 and the XF 2.7D Luxuary £33900.
In fact if you option up the Germans to the Jags spec the Germans are more expensive.

The E280 CDI Elegance, on the other hand costs £36997 some 11.6 % more as does the 535D.

adam

 

[Rory]

Because of price matching.

Mercedes make it worse for themselves by having stupidly high list pricing - the real transaction prices are quite a lot lower.

It's a real issue for company car drivers as the tax is based on list pricing. MB have had to introduce a special "business" version of the E Class to get around this.

 

[hawk20]

Mercedes make it worse for themselves by having stupidly high list pricing - the real transaction prices are quite a lot lower.

It's a real issue for company car drivers as the tax is based on list pricing. MB have had to introduce a special "business" version of the E Class to get around this.

Oh boy. That is just so unfair. The whole industry has high list prices and discounts whenever it needs to. I was offered over £5,000 off a new BMW 520d (not pre reg etc). Lexus are on drivethe deal at £5-7k off almost all the time.

I would love to go back to the days when there were no discounts on any Mercedes, and huge residuals, and they restricted supply to keep this so. But those days are gone. They are all at it. Selling high to anyone who will pay, discounted if you can haggle enough, pre reg if you know the ropes, really it is selling at different prices to different customers and the govts of europe should act to get all consumers a fair deal. residuals have been destroyed by manufacturers effectively dumping new and nearly new cars in the secondhand market. That is why I now like a guaranteed residual. Can't predict which model they will go for next. Remember £15 off an SL and £25k off a CL -in Mercedes showrooms. Disgraceful.

Funny if it wasn't so typically inefficient, the govt here passed a law limiting the number of demonstrators any manufacturer could have, but did not limit dealers.

 

[hawk20]

Because of price matching. The 525D SE costs £32865 and the E220 CDI Elegance £33132 and the XF 2.7D Luxuary £33900.
In fact if you option up the Germans to the Jags spec the Germans are more expensive.

The E280 CDI Elegance, on the other hand costs £36997 some 11.6 % more as does the 535D.

adam

I understand that BigX and ,of course, you can make a case for doing it that way. But it always disadvantages the dearer brands as they end up with the smallest engine and then we get 'not as sprightly as the others'.

I much prefer to compare engine size for engine size, and then say the Mercedes is dearer by £x, as you would expect, and then say either that they think it is worth it or not. Matter of taste of course. I nearly always end up thinking the Mercedes is worth the extra it costs. Some don't.

Or compare model to model. The E versus the 5 series versus whatever and then say they all come with a range of engines giving enough performance from this to this.

 

[big x]

I understand that BigX and ,of course, you can make a case for doing it that way. But it always disadvantages the dearer brands as they end up with the smallest engine and then we get 'not as sprightly as the others'.

I much prefer to compare engine size for engine size, and then say the Mercedes is dearer by £x, as you would expect, and then say either that they think it is worth it or not. Matter of taste of course. I nearly always end up thinking the Mercedes is worth the extra it costs. Some don't.

Or compare model to model. The E versus the 5 series versus whatever and then say they all come with a range of engines giving enough performance from this to this.

Well, the Whatcar group test is broken down into 9 sections and one does have the option to ignore the engine section.
I could make the point that the BMW 525D 2995cc engine is in fact the easy victor if £300 was spent chipping it up to the power of the old 530D but a line has to be drawn somewhere.
The E280 CDI will get it's chance when the 3.2 V6 Jag engine comes on line.

adam

 

[st4]

I would hold out in making a definitive verdict for another 2 years, and see if XF owners are still liking their cars, or if they've been troublesome.

On the face of it the XF is a very good product and has come out favourably in group tests, but so do Aston Martins. Is their a bias towards that product, or is it genuinely comprehensively superior. I am looking forward to a major car magazine taking on an XF on its fleet so we get an "owners" prospective.

The CLS 350CGI that TG magazine has/had performed flawelessly in their time with the car, would an XF. Only time will tell....

 

[hawk20]

The E280 CDI will get it's chance when the 3.2 V6 Jag engine comes on line.

adam

Wouldn't it be better and fairer to compare with the E320cdi?

 

[pauldmaynard]

I think it,s best to compare cars on price a fully loaded 320cdi is good but is it worth £40,000 +