Jaguar and Land Rover

[crockers]

Saw my first XF in a carpark today - dark metallic blue with cream leather.

Thought it was very nice as I looked head on to it - but didn't have any wow factor...Had a look inside and that does have a wow factor....but the rear 3/4 view is fantastic -- Aston through and through....I just wish the front was more.......attractive..



All IMHO.............

 

[big x]

I dont really really dislike Jaguars.
What annoys me is that they are charging £33K+ for a car which is presented and offered as a "new design" car when in truth its a rebodied old design. So in my opinion, it does make the car inferior. Certainly at that price.
Maybe if it was £25K then thats another story. Its ALWAYS is a matter of price.

Have you driven an XF ?

The complete running gear comes from the more expensive XK.

The chassis is highly rated by all who have driven it.

adam

 

[Dave Lewis]

Except that Dave's dates were a little out. The Citroen Traction Commerciale was actually launched in about 1940, IIRC

*anorak on*
In it's original incarnation, it had a split tailgate. When it re-emerged in '54 it had the top-hinged hatch, (or 'lifestyle door' )

 

[big x]

I never really have liked Jaguars and I know I will get probably get shot but I think Jaguars are a typical "old man's car" and very boring!

It may come as shock to you but to young people Mercedes is very much an old man's car too !

adam

 

[verytalldave]

Have you driven an XF ?

The complete running gear comes from the more expensive XK.

The chassis is highly rated by all who have driven it.

adam

No, I havent driven a XF. I have driven both S and X types and liked neither. At least not enough to buy one.
Its my opinion that cars are either bought or not bought on their looks.
If you like a cars looks and all other boxes are ticked, then it becomes a potential purchase.
A car could be a superb piece of engineering, cheap to buy and run, but if it doesnt appeal to you visually, then its a non-starter.
I have yet to see a XF in the flesh, so I will reserve judgement on that score.

 

[verytalldave]

It may come as shock to you but to young people Mercedes is very much an old man's car too !

adam

Mercedes, along with BMW seem to appeal all age groups at the moment. They have both managed to manipulate their images to give a very wide band of appeal. Other brands struggle to achieve this ideal position such as Lexus, Honda, Jaguar and many others, but have yet to succeed.
In my opinion anyway.

 

[big x]

Most new XF sales are going to be company cars. It would be nice to think given a choice many will give the XF extra consideration for being British made as well as reading the road tests that show the car to be highly competative dynamically and with class leading residuals.

I bought a Scottish made jumper today. Made in Hawick with British wool.
In Tokyo these are sought after products and much more expensive than here yet people still go to Marks and Spencers and buy an inferior Israeli jumper without a second thought. I can understand someone buying a cheaper Chinese made garment for the kids but people here pay large amounts of money for designer label tat that comes from China.

Yesterday I was in Tescos and bought some frozen southern fried chicken without looking at the label closely. Guess where it came from..............
The other side of the world, Thailand and no doubt laced with growth hormones that are illegal here.

Other European consumers are better educated IMHO. Italians buy Italian made cloths, shoes, food and cars etc. Same with Germans and French.

 

[Mr E]

Most new XF sales are going to be company cars. It would be nice to think given a choice many will give the XF extra consideration for being British made as well as reading the road tests that show the car to be highly competative dynamically and with class leading residuals.

I bought a Scottish made jumper today. Made in Hawick with British wool.
In Tokyo these are sought after products and much more expensive than here yet people still go to Marks and Spencers and buy an inferior Israeli jumper without a second thought. I can understand someone buying a cheaper Chinese made garment for the kids but people here pay large amounts of money for designer label tat that comes from China.

Yesterday I was in Tescos and bought some frozen southern fried chicken without looking at the label closely. Guess where it came from..............
The other side of the world, Thailand and no doubt laced with growth hormones that are illegal here.

Other European consumers are better educated. Italians buy Italian made cloths, shoes, food and cars etc. Same with Germans and French.

The XF was coming out substantially more expensive on a like-for-like spec basis when compared to the E-Class under our company car scheme. Infact, the system would quote me as it was out of my banding, whereas I'm £100+ under my limit with the E-Class I've ordered.


I don't think that it's because consumers are more educated that they buy locally - rather they seem to exhibit more pride in locally-produced things. That's something we don't seem to have here. Also, we're now reaping the results of rampant consumerism where cost is king and value means nothing.

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

A Volvo is still a Volvo and built in Sweden

The Volvo S40 and V50 share their chassis, body structure and suspension with the Ford Focus and are manufactured in Ghent, Belgium.

 

[chriswt]

Mercedes, along with BMW seem to appeal all age groups at the moment. They have both managed to manipulate their images to give a very wide band of appeal. Other brands struggle to achieve this ideal position such as Lexus, Honda, Jaguar and many others, but have yet to succeed.
In my opinion anyway.

I'm afraid the Mercs are definitely 'old man' cars regardless of the actual sales statistics.

When I first turned up in my new-old CLK a good proportion of the office (30 blokes of varying age) made plenty of 'old man' digs and a few of my younger friends said that Mercs are too old man and they'd rather stick to their BMW's, VW's and hot hatches.

On the up side, Mercs are still considered well-built which I believe stopped sometime in the early 90’s!!??

This goes back to my point about stigmas being unjustly attached to certain cars.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

Strange nobody has ever suggested our MBs are an old-man's car. Although I agree that the marque has traditionally endured a more silver-haired image compared to peers like BMW or Audi.

Ironically my wife liked driving her previous car - Vauxhall Omega - although she always felt conscious of it being an "old man's car" - maybe to do with the fact I just bought it because it was a good deal and she gave up her MX5 for it!!

She replaced the Omega with a Mercedes - completely her choice - and so must be close to the polar opposite in her mind.

PS Just thought. Maybe nobody comments because of these pesky silver flecks I have - maybe they just think I AM an old man!!

 

[chriswt]

Strange nobody has ever suggested our MBs are an old-man's car. Although I agree that the marque has traditionally endured a more silver-haired image compared to peers like BMW or Audi.

You obviously have a sensible and well-mannered set of work colleagues and friends.

Blokes in particular like nothing better than to rip the pee out of a friends new motor regardless of what it is.

If I’d bought a new Aston Martin I would have had to endure plenty of ‘Ford parts bin’ jokes and comments like “where’s the half moon ashtray”!!

The old man image is the first and most popular one to conjure up when thinking of the best way to take the Michael out of a Mercedes unless it’s a convertible where the hairdresser jokes take precedence.

 

[verytalldave]

I'm afraid the Mercs are definitely 'old man' cars regardless of the actual sales statistics.

When I first turned up in my new-old CLK a good proportion of the office (30 blokes of varying age) made plenty of 'old man' digs and a few of my younger friends said that Mercs are too old man and they'd rather stick to their BMW's, VW's and hot hatches.

On the up side, Mercs are still considered well-built which I believe stopped sometime in the early 90’s!!??

This goes back to my point about stigmas being unjustly attached to certain cars.

Strange then that they should use "an old mans car" as the pace/safety car for Formula 1 and not something younger and "trendy" like a BMW or Audi.

In truth, the fact that MB are labelled as old mans cars is because its usually only that section of the market that can afford to buy and run them.

 

[chriswt]

Strange then that they should use "an old mans car" as the pace/safety car for Formula 1 and not something younger and "trendy" like a BMW or Audi.

In truth, the fact that MB are labelled as old mans cars is because its usually only that section of the market that can afford to buy and run them.

With respect there are plenty of young and extremely wealth car owners out there and the likes of Audi and BMW seem to target them more successfully and Mercedes do.

MB's image is changing but traditionally MB's were bought by older people than those who bought BMW's. Mercedes orthopaedic seats are surely designed to appeal to older people (or the occasional young one like me with a bad back!)

As far as the F1 safety car goes I'd say it comes down to sponsorship and I bet that MB chose F1 rather than F1 choosing MB.

 

[amwebby]

I think the perception of Mercedes as an "old mans car" is prevalent to a certain extent in the UK at present, mostly because BMWs are perceived as sportier. To a certain extent this also hold true in Germany. In both case I feel it is because of the reputation for reliability, which is seen as "safe" and a factor that only concerns older men.

The same is not true in the US, where "old men" drive Lincolns and Cadillacs and Mercedes sporting image is intact because it's an "import" and all European cars are perceived as faster and more sporting then the local product.

 

[imadoofus]

all European cars are faster and more sporting then the local product.

 

[TonyVianoAmbiente]

Strange then that they should use "an old mans car" as the pace/safety car for Formula 1.

Simple. Mercedes were prepared to pay the most to get the safety car contract.

No-one chose Mercedes. The Mercedes offer was the highest.

 

[verytalldave]

Either way, it still the car everyone sees driving down the tarmac prior to all F1 races.

 

[Bobby Dazzler]

I think it makes sense for MB/AMG as it creates a sub-conscious link between the fantasy world of F1 and real cars that real people can drive.

I guess BMW could have a go, but other motor manufacturers with an F1 involvement don't really have a suitable road-derived car to use in their current line-up - thinking Renault and Honda.

The big advantage for MB is that they have lots of potential models they could use - so they can cycle them each season - even BMW have fewer very high performance cars. Compare the number of AMG models to number of M-power models.

So it's probably easier for MB to justify paying a higher price than the others.

 

[imadoofus]

I guess BMW could have a go, but other motor manufacturers with an F1 involvement don't really have a suitable road-derived car to use in their current line-up - thinking Renault and Honda.

But surely that's the point of this type of marketing exercise. If Renault or Honda put up one of their faster cars, then some of the glory would get reflected. Marketing is about creating a demand, sales is about fulfilling it.