Lorry drivers &A14

[Muppetz]

Perhaps they'd like to go back to having Traffic Police on the road with humans (well, almost humans) who could exercise discretion, be sympathetic, offer advice and if the worst came to the worst, actually report someone.

If only....

 

[jimti]

I'm way, way out of my depth here and please read all the following points as questions.

I thought you could only drive 9 hours per day and this can be extended to 10 hours twice a week? Am I right to suggest drivers can drive for a maximum total of 56 hours per week?

You are right in what you say but that is driving time, we can also "only" drive 90 hours each fortnight. Working time is completely different

I am neither silly nor daft and fully respect your post and I live in the real world but should ALL HGV drivers only drive for the prescribed time? Perhaps this is going way off topic but is a regular 15 hour day acceptable? (health wise)

Regards
John

I don't like the 15 hour day, the working time directive looked like a way to fix that, but I would guess the politicians got scared and copped out by applying the periods of availability clause.. Without it the transport system would have ground to a halt.

 

[xpc316e]

The Highway Code is quite clear on this subject: one should not accelerate while being overtaken, and even decelerate if necessary to let the other driver pass.

A few truck drivers need to sent to court for driving without reasonable consideration for other road users. While we are at we can send to court those muppet truck drivers who seal off the outside lane when approaching a set of road works.

 

[GRAV888]

The Highway Code is quite clear on this subject: one should not accelerate while being overtaken, and even decelerate if necessary to let the other driver pass.

A few truck drivers need to sent to court for driving without reasonable consideration for other road users. While we are at we can send to court those muppet truck drivers who seal off the outside lane when approaching a set of road works.

I take it you are a skateboard driver who cuts in at the last minute then

 

[glojo]

The Highway Code is quite clear on this subject: one should not accelerate while being overtaken, and even decelerate if necessary to let the other driver pass.

A few truck drivers need to sent to court for driving without reasonable consideration for other road users. While we are at we can send to court those muppet truck drivers who seal off the outside lane when approaching a set of road works.

Are you so vocal about the 70 mph speed limit, or parking where we shouldn't? It is easy to cherry pick, but is it fair?

Regards
John

 

[raymont]

A sign saying reduces to one lane in n miles does not mean start using one lane now. It's a warning. Should continue to use both lanes until reach road works and then 'zip' the two lanes together in a smooth movement.

This approach minimises the disruption and is fair.

The system drivers seem to use in the UK is not fair, as some drivers are perceived as queue jumpers, and causes disruption by the jockeying for position as the two lanes attempt to merge.

I spens a lot of time driving in Germany, and this works perfectly well.

Why can't we do it here?

 

[xpc316e]

No, I am not a 'skateboard driver who cuts in at the last moment' - I have earnt my living driving, and instructing, on LGV C+Es. If the lane is free, who are truck drivers to dictate that I cannot use it as described by the previous poster?

 

[st13phil]

Just back from a 10-day trip on the bike that took in France, Luxembourg, Germany and Belgium and see that this thread's still running, so I thought I'd add some more fuel to the fire based on (very) recent experience...

Started the trip home at about 9:00am yesterday, using motorways almost exclusively. In Germany, most two-lane sections of Autobahn I rode on had trucks restricted to the inside lane only - either by fixed signs (specifying either no overtaking by trucks at all, or no overtaking at specific times of the day) or by overhead gantry signs that obviously change according to conditions / time of day. Result: inside lane pretty full of trucks all travelling at approx 90kph up hill and down dale; overtaking lane populated by free-flowing cars & motorcycles travelling at speed limit +10kph on restricted sections. On derestricted sections most cars travelling at around 160kph +/- 10kph, with a few travelling much faster, but very little variation in speed for any given vehicle due to the free-flowing nature of the traffic (and it was pretty busy on some sections).

Cross border into Holland and then Belgium. Little or no restriction on overtaking by trucks. Result: lots of elephant racing by trucks; cars & other traffic constantly braking and joining "overtaking queues" waiting to overtake; non-truck traffic "bunched" and repeatedly accelerating up to cruising speed then braking again. Much more lane changing and potential for conflict.

Cross border into France. With the exception of the section of A16 near Dunkirk, little or no restriction on overtaking by trucks except on long uphill drags. Result: where truck overtaking was restricted, similar free-flow of other traffic to Germany; where trucks have no restriction on overtaking, very similar to Belgium / France.

Sorry, but I think we could all learn a lot from the Germans on this one.

Other interesting observations on driving in Germany:

• Lots of permanent speed restrictions on Autobahns around urban areas for noise abatement reasons, and also on bridges where sidewinds can be an issue
• When these are a 130kph limit, compliance rates were high; for 120kph limits compliance was lower, but still quite high. 100kph and lower restrictions were largely ignored unless there was a speed camera (very rare)
• Long sections of roadworks, even with very narrow lanes, were generally subject to 80kph limit, had zero camera or other enforcement, but had a very high compliance rate (cf the UK's 40mph limit and SPECS / Gatso cameras in similar circumstances)
• Urban traffic seems to generally have a very high speed limit compliance rate
• In 30kph limited zones (residential areas mostly) traffic turning right from a side turning often has priority over traffic approaching the junction (just like the French Priorite a Droit rule). Because Germans are very law abiding they do not even bother to look to their left before they pull out of the side road. I'm told that these junctions have a predictably high collision rate
• Both speedcams and traffic signal cams are used in towns & villages, but seem to be limited to what look like pretty obvious trouble spots and are much rarer than in the UK
• Outside urban areas most roads are subject to a 100kph limit which is generally adhered to, but drivers quite obviously adjust their speed to the conditions, often travelling much faster if conditions permit
• In the region of most junctions the limit drops to 70kph on the approach (perhaps 150-200yds before), and immediately returns to 100kph within feet the other side. This means that the road has different limits depending upon your direction of travel, according to whether you're approaching or leaving the hazard. The 70kph limit is largely ignored, but all traffic does slow on the approach even if not to 70kph
• Relevant to motorcyclists only: filtering is not permitted

 

[glojo]

Just back from a 10-day trip on the bike that took in France, Luxembourg, Germany and Belgium and see that this thread's still running, so I thought I'd add some more fuel to the fire based on (very) recent experience...

Thanks for taking the ime to post the most informative pot, but safety wise how do German rods compare to our Uk ones? (I'm far to gaa gaa to do any research)

Regards
John

 

[raymont]

A link to some statistics: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/6597743.stm

 

[st13phil]

...but safety wise how do German rods compare to our Uk ones?

I'm not sure of the latest statistics John, but I seem to remember that they were not that dissimilar to our own a couple of years ago.

I don't know much about the driver training / testing regime over there, but judging from what I saw of the general driving standards on this trip (and on numerous other trips in and through Germany in the past) I can't help but conclude that it's far more effective than ours.

Another thing that I suspect helps - at risk of entering into the world of the amateur psychologist - is the lack of speed restriction on approximately 20% of their Autobahn's. The fact that Hans (or whoever) knows that he can drive as fast as he likes when he gets 10k's further down the road seems to result in him being much more willing to respect lower limits elsewhere. That said, limits that are seen to be unreasonably low are widely ignored, just like the 4-mile section of the M26 I travelled on return to the UK yesterday which had the matrix signs in the central reservation flashing "40", no impediment to traffic flow, good visibility, and everyone blasting past at 70+ mph.

 

[raymont]

I've been driving regularly in Germany for more years than I care to think about.

Over that time the number of speed limits in Germany on motorways has increased. I would observe that when there were fewer speed limits they were very well observed, but as the number of limits has increased drivers are taking less notice. Especially of those where there isn't a clear reason for the limit.