Low miles R63AMG

[Bobby Dazzler]

Why make make a 505hp AWD minivan? I don't think anyone beyond the engineering department had a good answer to that, and as quickly as they were introduced, they were gone.

Reminds me of that Gordon Murray quote about the need for innovation that solves a problem, not a solution that needs a problem.

"I think a lot of people stumble straight into what they've come up with. And I think that's a mistake.

The first thing you need to get across is what the problem was in the first place. A lot of people think of an idea and then try and think of a problem it could solve."

As mentioned in a previous post, the R was an insurance policy, and even though Mercedes anticipated that sales of large SUVs may decline due to environmental concerns - and that a more subtle alternative may be required - they could be reasonably confident that a fairly large proportion of their core customer base would still demand larger engined variants, especially in the US and ME.

As the platform is shared with the ML, the cost of engineering both the R 63 and ML 63 was incremental relative to the cost of engineering only one or the other, and would have to be borne whether the ML/GL continued to sell strongly, or whether they’d wane in favour of the R. Key decisions like this would have been made early in the life of the project, say around 2001, and which way the market went would only become known a few years after launch in say 2008.

What the rest of us see as a sales flop in the R - and a pointless exercise in the R 63 - is only because we see it in the context of what actually happened, and not what might have happened, as the market change never came to be. Had history taken the other path then we would have seen the ML/GL and the ML 63 in the same way. To Mercedes they’re not separate successful and and unsuccessful models, they’re just body variants on a single platform, and success - or failure - is judged across them all.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

As mentioned in a previous post, the R was an insurance policy, and even though Mercedes anticipated that sales of large SUVs may decline due to environmental concerns - and that a more subtle alternative may be required - they could be reasonably confident that a fairly large proportion of their core customer base would still demand larger engined variants, especially in the US and ME.

As the platform is shared with the ML, the cost of engineering both the R 63 and ML 63 was incremental relative to the cost of engineering only one or the other, and would have to be borne whether the ML/GL continued to sell strongly, or whether they’d wane in favour of the R. Key decisions like this would have been made early in the life of the project, say around 2001, and which way the market went would only become known a few years after launch in say 2008.

What the rest of us see as a sales flop in the R - and a pointless exercise in the R 63 - is only because we see it in the context of what actually happened, and not what might have happened, as the market change never came to be. Had history taken the other path then we would have seen the ML/GL and the ML 63 in the same way. To Mercedes they’re not separate successful and and unsuccessful models, they’re just body variants on a single platform, and success - or failure - is judged across them all.

Try explaining that to the Labrador in the back of an R63 as it goes round the Nurburgring.

There's nothing wrong with "alleged" flops. Development and implementation lead-times are long. The minivan phase came and went.

The moving finger writes and moves on.

At almost the same time, the 1999 acquisition of AMG was a major success for the brand globally, through the Noughties and beyond. No-one saw how broad that success would be

The 2005 launch of the Maybach was more fun: Only 3,000 units sold and $330k lost on every unit they made.

Why Maybach closed: Daimler lost €330,000 on each one

 

[OnlyV8s]

Still at £12,500.... We've been through the 3-days-to-go-no-one-dares-move-first lull and I expect it to reach £18k by the end of today as everyone else tries to work out who's in and who's out. I'm watching, but can already feel the disapproving glare of Mrs V8 on the back of my head...

 

[OnlyV8s]

Bobby correct as usual. On the design I am going to give credit personally to the designer of the R class. They had a hard job. What they've done well IMO is mask the size of the thing. If you haven't seen one in the flesh it's b*** massive. An ML is small in comparison. A low to the floor GL, but it feels bulkier as it doesn't have that long bonnet. It's basically a transit van but probably wider and it overhangs almost every parking space.

It's also much nicer in real life. I don't know why but it's almost impossible to take a photo of the front which looks great. But when you see it and your brain processes the whole thing I found myself much more positive.

 

[OnlyV8s]

Also in case other people here are watching the auction, the interesting things about this one vs the other 12 are...

Not many of the R63 have a factory reversing camera. The advert says this one does.
Almost all of the R63 have a panoramic/double sunroof. The photos suggest this one doesn't - just a regular sunroof.

It also says the paint is Chromite Black, though it looks navy blue to me. A quick search on Auto Trader suggests that's such a rare MB colour anyway, it's probably the only R63 in Chromite. Obsidian Black and Iridium Silver are the main colours that I've seen. Sorry I'm an options list geek...

 

[BTB 500]

What they've done well IMO is mask the size of the thing. If you haven't seen one in the flesh it's b*** massive. An ML is small in comparison. A low to the floor GL, but it feels bulkier as it doesn't have that long bonnet. It's basically a transit van but probably wider and it overhangs almost every parking space.

They are certainly large compared to a normal estate but it depends what you are used to really. Van-based MPVs like the MB V Class (previously Viano) and VW etc. equivalents are still around ... these are also pretty big! My in-laws use to park their LWB R Class next to our 6-seat Vito Dualiner 'Long' (the middle size) when they visited - the R was about 6" longer but the overall width was slightly less, and obviously it was quite a bit lower.

We routinely take the Vito into supermarket etc. car parks ... even multi-storeys. It has Parktronic but visibility to the rear is worse than an R Class. An R with a reversing camera should be a doddle

 

[BTB 500]

Sorry I'm an options list geek...

Just as an aside, was the R63 available in both standard and long wheelbase??

 

[OnlyV8s]

BTB 500 - As I understand the R63 was only available in SWB in Europe. UK and US are all LWB.

If you look on one of the European car sites - "the parking dot eu" or similar, you'll see half a dozen or so for sale in Germany or Netherlands.

 

[oldguy57]

same car

Thought so.

 

[oldguy57]

Also in case other people here are watching the auction, the interesting things about this one vs the other 12 are...

Not many of the R63 have a factory reversing camera. The advert says this one does.
Almost all of the R63 have a panoramic/double sunroof. The photos suggest this one doesn't - just a regular sunroof.

It also says the paint is Chromite Black, though it looks navy blue to me. A quick search on Auto Trader suggests that's such a rare MB colour anyway, it's probably the only R63 in Chromite. Obsidian Black and Iridium Silver are the main colours that I've seen. Sorry I'm an options list geek...

Somewhere on MB World there is a list of total worldwide R63 production numbers together with the numbers of each colour. US enthusiasts seem to be able to get more info than we can.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

Still at £12,500.... We've been through the 3-days-to-go-no-one-dares-move-first lull and I expect it to reach £18k by the end of today as everyone else tries to work out who's in and who's out. I'm watching, but can already feel the disapproving glare of Mrs V8 on the back of my head...

Auctions is auctions. Only the inexperienced and the shills bid early.

The real action is at the end, when the second highest bidder defines how much the highest bidder will pay.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

The R class made great sense in the US van market. Big roads, big driveways, and an enormous appetite for carrying all kinds of stuff.

The way to think of it is an S class sized Minivan on an SUV platform built in Alabama.

6' 6" width restriction? No problem. An inch and a half spare either side.

 

[E55BOF]

I've seen a few R class on the road (and nearly bought an R500 a while ago), and I wouldn't describe it as ugly. Its sheer size gives it a certain presence, but I'd describe the styling as inoffensive, even anonymous.

 

[ALFAitalia]

I think the headlight area and the headlights themselves are very offensive.....at least to my eye.....
....but then I also seem to be alone on this forum in thinking the CLS 219 headlights are a terrible/ugly/out of place/ design too....so what do I know!?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

I think the headlight area and the headlights themselves are very offensive.....at least to my eye.....
....but then I also seem to be alone on this forum in thinking the CLS 219 headlights are a terrible/ugly/out of place/ design too....so what do I know!?

The R's lovely externally, front to back. It's just big for the UK and the interior's too "Alabama."

But I'm with you on the W219's headlights, although it's the coffin like view from the rear seats that kills it for me.

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

So anyway: tonight's the night. R63 on 63k in good colour with seemingly good provenance, even if it has been stood around for 3 or 4 years.

Without shilling, what's the group wisdom on what someone will pay for this, including fees, at auction - not dealer, so no warranty, at the dawn of the EV era?

I guess £20k. (Half the price of a new BMW 320d)

(It's all defined by the second highest bidder)

 

[fabes]

That presumes there are two people / bidders interested in it....

It is the definition of a niche car, certainly in today's world, doubly so in the UK, as many have commented above.

 

[OnlyV8s]

Movement - £14,400 now.
My prediction from last night was way out already, so clearly I know nothing!

 

[OnlyV8s]

My enthusiasm is held back by the fact I've never won a Collecting Cars auction. It becomes a little depressing after a while!
I remain of the view that for sellers it's one of the best places to sell. A lot of money and a lot of willingness it seems to buy cars unseen.
For me though even 250 photos doesn't replicate sitting in it.
And has anyone else noticed that new button about financing your bids with Charles and Dean!?

 

[MikeInWimbledon]

My enthusiasm is held back by the fact I've never won a Collecting Cars auction. It becomes a little depressing after a while!
I remain of the view that for sellers it's one of the best places to sell. A lot of money and a lot of willingness it seems to buy cars unseen.
For me though even 250 photos doesn't replicate sitting in it.
And has anyone else noticed that new button about financing your bids with Charles and Dean!?

Auctions are seldom won in the middle. It's all about bids at the end. Bid in the middle and you're exposing your interest. There is scope for a shill: fake bids are normal by both the auctioneer and the seller.

From the seller's point of view, many auctions end up with a disappointing result after fees, charges, and transport costs. (See the aquamarine CL600 that sold last weekend with £10k reaching the seller. It sold at £10,500 plus commissions )
CL 600 Manor Park Classics | Spotted on eBay!

It's a great show, but the seller picks up that bill. What the buyer pays isn't what the seller gets.

With an older car, there's always a large risk that can only be measured with a test drive.