LPG anyone got the inside line

[lotusmark2]

Just found this on the ECO cars web site

Very Very interested nowas it looks like I would be daft not to!

Government continues strong support for LPG in 2008 Budget

Converting a petrol vehicle to LPG provides motorists with a way to immediately reduce their motoring carbon footprint by 20%, and save money on their fuel costs.
Support continued for LPG in 2008 Budget - 20th March 2008

The Government continued to demonstrate its long term commitment to LPG in the 2008 Budget
when the Chancellor announced a
continuation of the existing guarantee for low fuel duty for LPG through to 2011.
The duty will rise by no more than 1p per litre per year more than petrol or diesel.
The rates announced are:

· The fuel duty increases planned for the 1st April will now take place on 1st October 2008.
At this time duty on LPG will increase only by .135p per litre more than petrol/diesel.

· As previously announced, on 1st April 2009 fuel duty on LPG will rise by .035p per litre
more than petrol / diesel

· On 1st April 2010 all fuel duty rates will increase by .5p per litre plus inflation.
As a result the specific duty rate will not be known until then.

This means that the price of LPG at the pumps should continue at around half
the price of petrol and diesel for the foreseeable future.

Additionally the VED reduction for LPG cars registered after March 2001 was increased by up to 100% depending on the CO2 band.

Vehicles converted to LPG (as evidenced by the production of an LPGA Approved Installer "LPG Conversion Certificate") are eligible for the following reduction in VED:

* Vehicles registered on or after 1st March 2001

* £20 per year for vehicles in bands B to E (increased from £10)

* £15 per year for vehicles in band F (increased from £10)

* Vehicles registered on or after 23rd March 2006 for which band G applies

* £15 per year (increased from £10)

This is a clear message of support for LPG for the long term which gives motorists and fleet managers the confidence to purchase LPG vehicles and contribute to a cleaner motoring environment

 

[Piff]

Why, if lpg is so good, havn't all the manufacturers ditched petrol & derv engines & fitted lpg engines instead?
Am I missing something here?

 

[tali]

Type in lpg calculator in google -plenty of sites showing any savings.
Personally, LPG on Meriva or any small car is a crazy idea

 

[Dieselman]

I had a small donought tank installed in the ML's spare wheel well, the range was 130 miles....

But then a fill up was sub £20!!!

That was when lpg was 42p per litre though.

Not too good. 12.4mpg and 15.3 pence per mile. It would've been cheaper driving a diesel.
LPG price is now about 56p/litre so now it's 18.7p per mile. Not worth doing.

 

[Seamster15]

Not too good. 12.4mpg and 15.3 pence per mile. It would've been cheaper driving a diesel.
LPG price is now about 56p/litre so now it's 18.7p per mile. Not worth doing.

Agreed but, the diesels were 4k more to buy at the time even after the conversion costs. Plus the 320 petrol had much more go in it.

Now I would get the diesel, as the hassle of finding the LPG and the poor running issues cause too many problems.

 

[Dieselman]

Converting a petrol vehicle to LPG provides motorists with a way to immediately reduce their motoring carbon footprint by 20%, and save money on their fuel costs.

Theoretically, but it fails to take into account the reduced efficiency when running on LPG.

This means that the price of LPG at the pumps should continue at around half
the price of petrol and diesel for the foreseeable future.

So half the price of diesel but only gives 50% of the range. Is it worth it given the fitting cost and lost practicality.?

 

[quasarman]

More points to consider:

As far as I know any changes to fuel duty on LPG must be announced 3 years in advance.
LPG burns cleaner than either unleaded or diesel, good for environment but also good for your engine -studies aparently show lpg fuelled engines last significantly longer than those on 'regular' fuels.
Shop around you can get lpg today for 52p a litre versus 117p unleaded or 130p diesel.

In my opinion conversions are worthwhile especially in larger engined cars as this will also help offset forthcoming VED increases.

Anyone care to give give some reasons why lpg really isn't a good idea?...

 

[Apial]

I have heard that some engines valve seats get burnt. I don't know which ones, other than engines which run on leaded only, are too soft to run on lpg. However, somone mentioned that Ford Zetec engines were not suitable, and they do run on unleaded.

 

[Fredhead]

I have been running lpg on my E280 W210 for 3 months now. I expect to get back my initial cost (£1800) over about 12 - 14,000 miles. Probabaly a bit quicker now that petrol has gone up so much.
My only grouse is that the range is about 200 - 220 miles on a 65 litre tank, about 10 litres of which doesn't get used, so effectively about 53 litres. You have to plan your fill ups.
Having said that, next year this time, I'll be saving half on my fuel bill.
The government has promised not to raise taxes on lpg at least until 2010-11. After that it will go up I guess, but i think it will still be cheaper than petrol as you can't suddenly double its price.

 

[Defiant]

Having said that, next year this time, I'll be saving half on my fuel bill.
The government has promised not to raise taxes on lpg at least until 2010-11. After that it will go up I guess, but i think it will still be cheaper than petrol as you can't suddenly double its price.

That had been part of the draw for diesel engines here. It used to cost about half what gasoline did. Now, it's more costly than gas. No telling if they'll do the same with LPG. Whoever "they" are.

 

[Dragon]

I seem to remember in the budget the duty on LPG will increase by slightly more than the duty on petrol for the next couple of years and the guarantee for low fuel duty for LPG was only until 2011.
After that it's anybodys guess. Like others have said, the more popular it becomes, the greater the temptation to hilke the tax

Don't worry about tomorrow, enjoy life now, you never know what may happen tomorrow.

 

[SilverSaloon]

Don't want to be Mr. Negative but is there a chance of HMG suddenly increasing the tax on LPG if it gets popular?

i remember everyone advising me against this back in 2005 on my BMW for the same reason.

OK, i have since sold the car so not really an issue BUT the price of LPG is roughly still the same and HASNT GONE UP. So if i had kept the car and done the conversion, it would have paid for itself easily by now......

i'd get it converted if you want to.

 

[Dieselman]

LPG Duty rate.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/budget2008/bn71.pdf

The duty rate for liquefied petroleum gas will increase to reduce the differential with main road fuels by the equivalent of 1 penny on litre of petrol up to 2010-11, in line with the alternative fuels framework.

The duty will go up 8p by 2009, according to this.

 

[Fredhead]

lpg hikes

LPG Duty rate.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/budget2008/bn71.pdf

The duty rate for liquefied petroleum gas will increase to reduce the differential with main road fuels by the equivalent of 1 penny on litre of petrol up to 2010-11, in line with the alternative fuels framework.

The duty will go up 8p by 2009, according to this.

That's quite right from what I can read. 4p this year and 4p next year. Thieving b............s. It will hardly net them much as there aren't many lpg cars about - maybe 150,000 or so on the roads, compared with about 30,000,000 other vehicles.
Also shouldn't increase in numbers a lot as lpg conversion is still very much a cottage industry. Most garages will cope with 1 - 3 conversions a week at most.

 

[Dieselman]

That's quite right from what I can read. 4p this year and 4p next year. Thieving b............s.

An opposing thought might be "Why has LPG had a tax reduced status at all.?" It's a hydrocarbon fuel.

 

[st4]

An opposing thought might be "Why has LPG had a tax reduced status at all.?" It's a hydrocarbon fuel.

Although I don't like your thinking I can see the logic behind it As LPG is HC based does it not produce less particulates, and NOx emissions.

 

[Dieselman]

Although I don't like your thinking I can see the logic behind it As LPG is HC based does it not produce less particulates, and NOx emissions.

Yes but it has a lower energy content as well so you need more of it to go the same distance, thus it's not really any different overal compared to petrol.
There is a dispensation of £15 on the VED charge as the reduced Co2 is minimal.

 

[st4]

Yes but it has a lower energy content as well so you need more of it to go the same distance, thus it's not really any different overal compared to petrol.
There is a dispensation of £15 on the VED charge as the reduced Co2 is minimal.

So it should have less duty on it to account for the fact that LPG means less MPG but a similar level of emissions of NOx per mile than petrol. (if you buy into the car+climate change thing )

 

[CiaranMcKeown]

I read somewhere before that LPG converted cars can easily run on home heating oil which would reduce the cost even more. Correct me if im wrong.

 

[Dieselman]

I read somewhere before that LPG converted cars can easily run on home heating oil which would reduce the cost even more. Correct me if im wrong.

I'd be surprised given that LPG is a gas and heating oil is a liquid.