MB Paint Touch Up Sticks...

[glojo]

Just had a thought.

Touch-up paint is usually oil based, yet our cars have water based paints? I'm not criticising the colour match. I am just curious about the reasons why.

John

 

[COUPE FREAK]

my cars a 1993,, not sure if its cellulose or water based paint,, anybody know when mb changed over,?

my paint stick smells like cellulose,?? i recently bought from mb.

 

[glojo]

my cars a 1993,, not sure if its cellulose or water based paint,, anybody know when mb changed over,?

my paint stick smells like cellulose,?? i recently bought from mb.

Hope I have not caused confusion. I have never purchased any touch-up paint that was not cellulose.

I am merely pointing out that modern Mercedes are painted with water based paints.

If I was a gambling man, then I would suggest that oil based touch-up paints dry much, much quicker than the industrial water based paints.

John

 

[COUPE FREAK]

would have thought if you used cellulose paint on water based paint it would react, ie, bubble up,, then again, i'm not a car painter,,

 

[Howard]

Hmmmmm

Seem to remember that you can either put acrylic over cellulose or cellulose over acrylic but can't remember which way round it was ... one way will react, the other won't ...

I expect i'm wrong, just seem to remember something ...

 

[Ian B Walker]

Acrylic over Cellulose Howard. As long as you use a primer first.

 

[glojo]

would have thought if you used cellulose paint on water based paint it would react, ie, bubble up,, then again, i'm not a car painter,,

What's paint got to do with woodwork........



Think about it????



Car painter




Car pen tar

Sorry about that, it just appealled to my stupid sense of humour


I have used cellulose touch up paint on my water base coated 210 with NO reaction.

Regards
John the simple

 

[Howard]

hmmmm.....

 

[COUPE FREAK]

when you're saying "water based" paint,, what is it,, emulsion paint from b&q,?

 

[COUPE FREAK]

I have used cellulose touch up paint on my water base coated 210 with NO reaction.

Regards
John the simple

the touch-up paint cant have been cellulose,, i'm sure it would react with this so called water based stuff,

what makes you think your touch-up paint was cellulose,?

 

[glojo]

I think it might be my misunderstanding having got the definition of water based paints wrong?

Water based paints are water soluble so equipment, brushes etc can be cleaned with water???

Brushes that have been used with oil based paints need proper cleaning?

That is my simple translation of the information I was given, but you appear to have doubts?

Our 210 was definitely sprayed with water based paint. The touch-up paints we used were definitely oil based (They are still in our garage)

Surely you would only get a reaction if the base paint was wet? (the car)

I sometimes use acrylic paints on my models, but I can still paint over them with oil based enamels? again the acrylic MUST be thoroughly dry.

Regards
John

 

[glojo]

when you're saying "water based" paint,, what is it,, emulsion paint from b&q,?

Just tried exactly that. The walls of our swimming pool complex are painted with oil based eggshell paint. I applied a similar coloured water based paint on it. The paint dried perfectly.

We then applied the eggshell (Oil based) onto the water based paint. Unfortunately the eggshell takes 24 hours to dry so I cannot comment on the second stage.

I'm sure you read the previous post about water CAR based paints:
****************************

Dear John

To answer your easiest questions first:

Paints normally contain some volatile material. This is in order that the
paint is thin / runny enough to be applied by brush / roller / spray. Once the
paint has been applied, this volatile material evaporates to leave a film that
then dries.

If the volatile material is organic (i.e made up of compounds largely based on
carbon and hydrogen) then we refer to the coating as a solvent based paint.
The solvents (materials like white spirit, xylene, butanol etc) are often
referred to as volatile organic compounds (VOCs).

If the volatile material is mainly water we referred to the coating as a water
based paint. In fact many water based paints also contain some VOCs. Emulsion
paints are one example where small amounts of VOCs (known as co-solvents) are
added to aid in the coalescence of the emulsified resin during the drying process.

In general water based paints can be diluted with water and water can be used
to clean brushes etc used with such paints. Whether or not water SHOULD be
added to a water based paint is something that the manufacturer can advise on.


Now to deal with your question regarding when water based paints become
mandatory. As I understand the situation, nobody has said "You must use water
based paints". What the have said in effect is:-

"You must limit the amount of VOCs emitted by your painting process" The
details are given in the Solvents Emissions Directive.

AND

"You must limit the VOC content of your paints" The details are given in the
Paint Products Directive.

These are both complex documents but if you need help in locating them please
let me know.

***********************************

Sorry to go off topic but you appeared to be doubting what I was saying?

Regards
John the

 

[Howard]

Just tried exactly that. The walls of our swimming pool complex are painted with oil based eggshell paint. .

Dude , you've got too much cash !!

LOL good luck to you , if i had a pool you'd never get me out of it !

 

[glojo]

Dude , you've got too much cash !!

LOL good luck to you , if i had a pool you'd never get me out of it !

If the paint had bubbled I would have sent COUPE FREAK the bill 32 degrees.

Talking of water.... What happened to your duck?

Take care,
John

 

[COUPE FREAK]

Just tried exactly that. The walls of our swimming pool complex are painted with oil based eggshell paint. I applied a similar coloured water based paint on it. The paint dried perfectly.

We then applied the eggshell (Oil based) onto the water based paint. Unfortunately the eggshell takes 24 hours to dry so I cannot comment on the second stage.

yes, i know you'd have no problem with putting water based paint onto what you call "oil-based" paint, because there's next to no solvents in it,,

you've mentioned quite a few paint type's,, this is what i think you can and cant paint over,, i do of course stand to be corrected,

paint types,,

acrlic,, is i think thinned with keytones, never really used it,

gloss-enamel,, thinned with white spirit or turpentine,

cellulose,, thinned with cellulose thinners,,

emulsion,, thinned with water,

painting over,,

cellulose, over paint with-enamel,emulsion,acrlic.

enamel, over paint with-emulsion.

emulsion, over paint with-enamel.

acrlic,, as i said, never used it so i cant really say, but it's not really relevent.

you can of course put any paint on top of any other paint if you firstly use a barrier coat. but thats not relevent either.

and even if the water based paint was dry, i'd never try and put cellulose paint on top of it, think it would still react,,

 

[glojo]

and even if the water based paint was dry, i'd never try and put cellulose paint on top of it, think it would still react,,

This is an interesting debate, and keeping it right on topic, in your opinion is touch up paint an oil based liquid (cellulose????), or a water based one?

Our year 2000 210 was definitely repaired with oil based paints, which I can only presume were cellulose??? The original paint is definitely yukky water based.

John

 

[COUPE FREAK]

i've always thought of oil based paints to be enamel,, ie, thin it with white spirit or turp's,

the touch up stick i bought definitley smells of thinners, my cars a 1993 tho,

i can only assume your touch up stick is enamel, so it can be applied to the water based mb paint,

but as i said,, i'm not a painter, but i've done a bit over the years,

 

[glojo]

i've always thought of oil based paints to be enamel,, ie, thin it with white spirit or turp's,

the touch up stick i bought definitley smells of thinners, my cars a 1993 tho,

i can only assume your touch up stick is enamel, so it can be applied to the water based mb paint,

but as i said,, i'm not a painter, but i've done a bit over the years,

I understand where your coming from and we must be careful not to start splitting hairs over definitions. Oil based paints would clearly include cellulose, I am cetainly NOT going to categorically say whether touch up paint is either enamel or cellulose. Because of the smell I have always assumed it to be cellulose, but smell means nothing. Just checked our Azurite Blue touch up paint and the clear lacquer. It really has that very strong smell of cellulose, but nowhere on the container does it say.

Oh and acrylic paint has been used by mainstream car manufacturers for the spraying of motor vehicles.

Regards
John

 

[Goldfish11]

Where do you guys source your very fine/thin artist paint brushes from i.e. on line and how much do they cost?

When you have finished with the brush do you use it again for future touch ups and just rinse the brush in in water or is it best to dispose of it after a single session?

In my town the local cheapo book shop and hobby shop stock them £1.99 for 4.
An artist would not use these as they are cheap and nasty but I generally throw them away after I have done the car. Dont by expensive ones!

These I find are purfect for touching up.