mbz build quality

silverarrow

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Mar 19, 2004
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has the build quality got better
i have gone over to lexus but do miss the mbz
but cannot cope with poor cars bad build and attitude dealers sorry stealers :devil: :devil:
are the 2004 reg and 2005 any better
 

gary350

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silverarrow said:
has the build quality got better
i have gone over to lexus but do miss the mbz
but cannot cope with poor cars bad build and attitude dealers sorry stealers :devil: :devil:
are the 2004 reg and 2005 any better

There is not a car that has been built that will not have problems (I am not talking about individual cars) and that includes the Lexus, the trick is to buy a car not put together by the friday crew, but in the end it is luck that will deter if the future is rosy or not, try to forget the various surveys because the only people that will have anything to say about their car will be the guy that has problems,(I played golf this morning and I can only remember the bad shots) the trick is finding a manufacturer that has a silent majority not minority. I have had no real problems with my 2004 MB but I know some that have, it only takes one dozy fitter to spoil your day, the rule book on such happenings is called Sods Law.

gary
 

SilverSaloon

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1994 W124 E300D Estate, 1985 R107 280SL
think they are starting to get better.

i must say build quality on the merc (S class) is one of the reasons why i now have a BMW 7 instead. :devil:

will look again at Benz when i sell the 7 in 5 or so years time.
 

rees_A

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Surely there are more important things to consider when buying a car than reliability....It should be one of the factors but not used to soley decide which manufacturer to choose. Id that was the case we would all drive Honda Jazzes!!! I think MB have had problems mainly with electrics in the past but they have recognised that and are doing something to resolve it. I think owning an MB is not just about reliability, its about the drive, comfort and the way you feel when behind the wheel.

I for one wouldn't be seen dead in a rebadged toyota (aka Lexus) no matter what car mags or anyone else say about how wonderful they are...At the end of the day they are still Toyotas!!!!...

I like MB becuase they are quite, comfortable, easy to drive and you feel good driving in them. Even though there are quite a few out there now, I personally still feel I am driving the second best built car in the world!!
 

MainMan

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The quality of the later cars certainly looks better, but looks can be deceptive. The dealers, I've noticed in my frequent visits, are also more polite than they used to be, but they're still useless and charge like a wounded bull. I think the problem with quality is intractable. They have a pampered, highly paid German workforce and that makes it difficult to produce a decent quality car at a competitive price - corners have to be cut.
 

jgevers

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Hi,

I think, the reason that MB still sell a lot of cars in the UK is that the population in the UK in general is very status consious. My family and I (as a foreigner) always owned MBs until a few years ago. I am the only one (although my father still has an ancient W124T for the dogs) that still has a MB. This is the last one though. The problems I have had with my ML and previously the E55 are rediculous.

The rest of my family have changed to Lexus and Toyota. Looking how these have performed over the last 6 years shows that these Japanese brands are the new Mercedes Benz.

For the status consious, a local chauffeur drive company has done a survey amongst it's corporate customers whether they would prefer MB S class or Lexus LS430. I would have expected that the majority would choose MB here in the UK, but in fact more people preferred the Lexus! It looks like MB is also losing it's way with company directors?

regards,

Job
 

ddentrec

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rees_A said:
I like MB becuase they are quite, comfortable, easy to drive and you feel good driving in them. Even though there are quite a few out there now, I personally still feel I am driving the second best built car in the world!!

You used the word 'feel' twice.

The fact is that M-Bs are designed by subcontractors, and also built by them. DaimlerChrysler have done this to reduce the unit cost of the car, which has been created using automotive specialists like Bosch and MMG who also do work for Ford, etc. Even the M-B factories are owned by Mygyar (may have spelt this wrong!) who build Mitsubishis in the same plant: they are not even operated by DC.

Your 'feel' factor is the Mercedes brand image and nothing more: that is the only bit that DaimlerChrysler actually do own.
 

MainMan

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ddentrec said:
Even the M-B factories are owned by Mygyar (may have spelt this wrong!) who build Mitsubishis in the same plant: they are not even operated by DC.

Who were the thousands of DC workers who staged a protest march in Stuttgart last year then?
 

ddentrec

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Good point: They were German. DaimlerChrysler have to employ a proportion of (expensive) German staff to keep the IG Metall union union and government happy. They striked for a 4% pay/package: but the writing is on the wall for manufacturers to build in Europe: without tax breaks it is just too expensive.

So why own an expensive factory when a subcontractor can do it for you at a cheaper price? Apart from the consumer looking for a prestigious brand, who cares if they also build other marques in the same plant?

Some examples:

...But perhaps more important than seeing the car is an acknowledgement that the Smart will be made in conjunction with Mitsubishi in Brazil, along the same factory line that produces the Colt...

http://www.forbes.com/2003/05/06/cx_mf_0507vow.html


...Oriental Assemblers Sdn. Bhd, Malaysia, are an assembler for Hyundai & Mercedes vehicles.

http://my.jobstreet.com/jobs/2004/6/default/10/126525.htm


…plant for all Honda passenger vehicles such as City, Civic and Accord and Mercedes Benz...Malaysia

http://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=U&st...ise50/e50pages/Winners98/w_orient.html&e=9796
 

big x

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Well,cars have always been a collecton of parts made by many companies.Looking at my 1997 C-class assembled in the MB Bremen plant by Turkish workers the glass is French,the boot lining is from a German company,the paint is from one of the 2 companies that supply all the european makers,a small electrical part by Denso( parent company Nippon Denso),the aircon compressor Japanese (made in germany),alternator French,the brake master cylinder Girling made in UK ! etc,etc.
The key is the quality of the specification and that's what let MB down in recent times due to attempts at squeezing suppliers.
In the recent Autocar article MB pin-pointed that letting the suppliers like Bosch test parts rather than MB testing the actual parts on the prototypes had caused electrical problems on the current E-class.
It should be remembered cars are much cheaper in real terms than 10 years ago E.G. in 1994 a C-180 with aircon,auto,met paint would have been almost £25000 OTR according to the old pricelist I have.Taking into account 11 years of inflation the current model of the same spec. is much cheaper.

adam

ddentrec said:
You used the word 'feel' twice.

The fact is that M-Bs are designed by subcontractors, and also built by them. DaimlerChrysler have done this to reduce the unit cost of the car, which has been created using automotive specialists like Bosch and MMG who also do work for Ford, etc. Even the M-B factories are owned by Mygyar (may have spelt this wrong!) who build Mitsubishis in the same plant: they are not even operated by DC.

Your 'feel' factor is the Mercedes brand image and nothing more: that is the only bit that DaimlerChrysler actually do own.
 
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gary350

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In the latest What Car out today MB are 10th in a reliability survey and the second highest euro car after Skoda (9th) all the rest are far eastern, this beats BMW (17th), Audi (28th) and Porsche (14th) of interest the average cost of an MB claim repair was almost half that of porsche £411 against £972. General opinion is that MB are improving.
1 - Honda
2- Mazda
3 - Toyota
4 - Nissan
5 - Lexus

gary
 

big x

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A few years ago I seem to remember Porsche came 2nd (probabably due to the excellent Boxter) and BMW the top volume european.
I tend to look at long term trends across surveys and VAG products have been on a downward spiral for some time now (excluding Skoda),certainly worse than MB overall.

adam

gary350 said:
In the latest What Car out today MB are 10th in a reliability survey and the second highest euro car after Skoda (9th) all the rest are far eastern, this beats BMW (17th), Audi (28th) and Porsche (14th) of interest the average cost of an MB claim repair was almost half that of porsche £411 against £972. General opinion is that MB are improving.
1 - Honda
2- Mazda
3 - Toyota
4 - Nissan
5 - Lexus

gary
 

peterchurch

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rees_A said:
I for one wouldn't be seen dead in a rebadged toyota (aka Lexus) no matter what car mags or anyone else say about how wonderful they are...At the end of the day they are still Toyotas!!!!...
:rolleyes: yes and my _TOY YODA_ MR2 put 70,000 trouble free miles on the clock in two years :D It did not leak, Throw blots, Rattle or anything the SL did in the 20K I owned it... _NO ONE_ gives a merc a second look these days (unless its something special) so why kid ourselves about extra status for driving one ?

** EDIT **

You are right though. Reliability is not the only thing to judge a car by. that said a car can gain points by the way a dealer handles you when things _do_ go wrong.

When I had my Saab 93 it broke down on the M4 (fan belt pretensioner arm went and the car over heated) The car was picked up by Saab assistance (the AA in drag) They took me and the car home and agreed a time to collect me and the car to take it to the dealers the next day. The dealer arranged a test drive of a viggen for the morning while they put my car back together. They sorted it out washed the car inside and out and It was ready to hand back when I bought the viggen back (not that I wanted to :D )

That service reduced my blood presure...
 
Last edited:

Flyer

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peterchurch said:
The dealer arranged a test drive of a viggen for the morning while they put my car back together. They sorted it out washed the car inside and out and It was ready to hand back when I bought the viggen back (not that I wanted to :D )

Wow, now that's what I call Customer Service! ;) :D

Saab Viggen:
 

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stats007

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This bit is all you need to read:

Mercedes has gone from being the global benchmark for quality and one of the most profitable auto makers in the world to a money-losing shambles. For the first half of 2005, the premium carmaker lost $1.1 billion. Clearly, Zetsche will have his work cut out turning Mercedes around.
 

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