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Mercedes S Class or Jaguar XJ?

My first S-Class was a M100 300SEL 6.3 and i have had every S-Class up to my present W221 500L Except the W140 which i couldn't face driving every day due to it's ugliness ( so i bought a 740iL )
I picked up my 221 ( AMG Kit + 20" AMG wheels, full leather interior + disigno Piano Black ) in January 2008 from the factory and 181,000 miles later, it still pulls like a train and i still get 29/30 mpg
As you have had 220's then you must have appreciated the marque.
 
MikeInWimbledon said:
Ps. There are question marks over Tata’s long term commitment to Jaguar saloons and sports cars. I wonder if they’ll flog Jaguar “brand” to the Chinese and keep Land Rover to themselves

P Ps that island XJ is gorgeous. If I wasn’t already mentally committed to spending nearly £30k on a 2015 “wall to wall screen” S500 I’d be tempted….

Isn’t the obvious thing just to try the Jaaaag and see how it compares to your current car ?
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Have set up a Test drive for later in the week. As you say, logical place to start.
 
2012SLK200 said:
Is this the one you are looking at? Jaguar XJ-L Supercharged | Premium Nearly New Pre-owned Cars for Sale in Jersey Channel Islands
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I think I'd be slightly nervous of an 11-year-old car that had done only 2000 miles per year on an island with a 40mph speed limit. With that much torque it must have almost never exceeded 2000rpm. And with such low miles many journeys must be short ones from cold. Is that a risk?
 
2012SLK200 said:
It's unclear if you are looking at Ford Era X350 (2004-2009) or a Tata Era X351 (2010-2019). After that they dropped the XJ.

In regard to reliability, counter-intuitively the older the car, the less electronics it has on it, thus in an odd way, the older the better. When electronics fail, they can cost more than the car is worth. I had a 2001 SLK R170. Not a lot of electronics. It was fairly straightforward and I expect I could have kept it running for decades. I only sold it when I fractured my back and needed the softer ride of the R172.

My 2012 SLK R172 is electric everything. The windows even drop an inch when closing the door. Right now it all works, but when things stop working, it will be a nightmare. Mercedes went whole hog on tech. In a new car under warranty, that's great. But the first time you go into the shop after the warranty, the invoice is eye-watering.

The Jag is less complicated and I find the Ford era to be very reliable. The only real weakness in a Jag is the air suspension. Unless it has papers showing a recent replacement, just order four new air shocks from Rock Auto (US2,000) and the pump rebuild kit (£25), and it won't let you down (pardon the pun).

Reliability in the Mercedes? Hard to say, except to say there are a whole lot more components to break. A lot turns on the history of the car - does it come with a complete history showing it was well cared for? Was it always garaged? Was it never driven in snow, salt, near the ocean? Was it driven enough, or by the old lady who took it to church on Sundays, so the engine never warmed up and it's full of gunk?

In terms of luxury, you really need to drive them both. Turo shows a
If you want to test drive an older X350, contact the Jaguar Club and an enthusiast will be happy to help
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2012SLK200 said:
It's unclear if you are looking at Ford Era X350 (2004-2009) or a Tata Era X351 (2010-2019). After that they dropped the XJ.

In regard to reliability, counter-intuitively the older the car, the less electronics it has on it, thus in an odd way, the older the better. When electronics fail, they can cost more than the car is worth. I had a 2001 SLK R170. Not a lot of electronics. It was fairly straightforward and I expect I could have kept it running for decades. I only sold it when I fractured my back and needed the softer ride of the R172.

My 2012 SLK R172 is electric everything. The windows even drop an inch when closing the door. Right now it all works, but when things stop working, it will be a nightmare. Mercedes went whole hog on tech. In a new car under warranty, that's great. But the first time you go into the shop after the warranty, the invoice is eye-watering.

The Jag is less complicated and I find the Ford era to be very reliable. The only real weakness in a Jag is the air suspension. Unless it has papers showing a recent replacement, just order four new air shocks from Rock Auto (US2,000) and the pump rebuild kit (£25), and it won't let you down (pardon the pun).

Reliability in the Mercedes? Hard to say, except to say there are a whole lot more components to break. A lot turns on the history of the car - does it come with a complete history showing it was well cared for? Was it always garaged? Was it never driven in snow, salt, near the ocean? Was it driven enough, or by the old lady who took it to church on Sundays, so the engine never warmed up and it's full of gunk?

In terms of luxury, you really need to drive them both. Turo shows a
If you want to test drive an older X350, contact the Jaguar Club and an enthusiast will be happy to help out.
Click to expand...

This is the one I was looking at locally (in fact its the only one that caught my eye locally - as its a small market)
www.jtdirectory.com

Jaguar XJ-L Supercharged £19950

www.jtdirectory.com www.jtdirectory.com
 
MikeInWimbledon said:
My first point was more that these cars are rare and difficult to obtain in the right spec/mileage at your price level, so it's not as simple a choice as it looks - you don't get carte blanche. I'm looking for my third S500L now and colour (not black or silver), specification, mileage and ownership choices are limited. (And I'll go anywhere in the UK to find the right car)

Second point, as XJ is almost an S class equivalent, although it's really half way between an E and S Class. BUT... you're wanting to compare a luxury car (the S500L) with a "souped up" (sorry for the old fashioned words) XJ, so you're adding the joys of sports suspension, exhaust, handling, and kit / looks to the mix.

If you're mainly on Jersey, you're not doing 120mph that often, or even pressing pedal to the metal, so it's more feel of the E63 or XJ Supercharged that matters, rather than Nurburgring style handling. If you've enjoyed the E63, then it points to the S500L being too boring (discreet)

The S500L will be more reliable. It'll have been owned by organisations and individuals with more than enough money, while a supercharged XJ will likely have been driven con brio, and will probably have had more private owners, who scrimp a bit.
But an S500L will be quiet, and hushed. If you liked quiet and hushed power you'd have bought an E500 rather than an E63 last time.

Every review describes every generation of the S500L as the ultimate luxury limousine. The used challenged is that luxury limousines are usually bought new and struggle to sell used. Do you really want a luxury limousine?
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Wasn't especially looking for LWB - it just so happens that the Jag on sale happens to be that spec. SWB in either is fine. All of the W220's I've owned have been SWB.
Not having driven this era of Jag (the only one I've actually driven is an old 4.2 XJ6) I was righly/wrongly assuming a newer XJ and an S class would be very similar in the comfort stakes.........but perhaps not.
I've loved the E63 and its not uncomfortable - but wanted just a little more comfort, hence the choices.
Having come from an E63 (an E500, a C63 and S8) I did wonder if the S class in non AMG form may be a little sedate??
I would be happy with an S63 - but it would be the same age as my E63 (2007) with the budget I have - hence the move to an S500 as I can then stretch to a car that's a few years newer (but still old)
An S63 would still be the same W221 shape as an S500 albeit it older..........is this the worst idea in the world as many of the components will be a god deal older.
First job is to drive the Jag and see how much of a step up or side step it is compared to the E63.
 
SW18 said:
I think I'd be slightly nervous of an 11-year-old car that had done only 2000 miles per year on an island with a 40mph speed limit. With that much torque it must have almost never exceeded 2000rpm. And with such low miles many journeys must be short ones from cold. Is that a risk?
Click to expand...

Fair comment - my E63 (2007) is only on 42k now though and hasn't been an issue
 
mark_le_b said:
Not having driven this era of Jag (the only one I've actually driven is an old 4.2 XJ6) I was righly/wrongly assuming a newer XJ and an S class would be very similar in the comfort stakes.........but perhaps not.
Click to expand...
IIRC the XJs were criticised at launch for having overly stiff suspension to the detriment of comfort. This sticks in my mind as at the time I couldn't help but think that Jaguar had missed an opportunity to make the LWB softer and smoother riding as standard with the option of stiffer set-up for those who wanted it. Rear passengers would have appreciated softer I'd imagine and LWB is surely for their benefit.
 
Bellow said:
IIRC the XJs were criticised at launch for having overly stiff suspension to the detriment of comfort. This sticks in my mind as at the time I couldn't help but think that Jaguar had missed an opportunity to make the LWB softer and smoother riding as standard with the option of stiffer set-up for those who wanted it. Rear passengers would have appreciated softer I'd imagine and LWB is surely for their benefit.
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I have no expertise in the Jag XJ’s but, by definition, you’d think that any supercharged car would have a sportier set up, suspension etc. The normal XJ (portfolio?) would be closer in comfort to the S500L
 
mark_le_b said:
Wasn't especially looking for LWB - it just so happens that the Jag on sale happens to be that spec. SWB in either is fine. All of the W220's I've owned have been SWB.
Not having driven this era of Jag (the only one I've actually driven is an old 4.2 XJ6) I was righly/wrongly assuming a newer XJ and an S class would be very similar in the comfort stakes.........but perhaps not.
I've loved the E63 and its not uncomfortable - but wanted just a little more comfort, hence the choices.
Having come from an E63 (an E500, a C63 and S8) I did wonder if the S class in non AMG form may be a little sedate??
I would be happy with an S63 - but it would be the same age as my E63 (2007) with the budget I have - hence the move to an S500 as I can then stretch to a car that's a few years newer (but still old)
An S63 would still be the same W221 shape as an S500 albeit it older..........is this the worst idea
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SWB limos can be found next to the hen’s teeth.

They were very rare in the UK. More common in the States and Germany
 
MikeInWimbledon said:
I have no expertise in the Jag XJ’s but, by definition, you’d think that any supercharged car would have a sportier set up, suspension etc. The normal XJ (portfolio?) would be closer in comfort to the S500L
Click to expand...
Not what was said at the time - and that was before the V8 version existed.
 
mark_le_b said:
So we should all be in Honda's then........not sure I'll make that move.
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Slightly OT, but I think that comparing luxury marques with mundane brands isn't very informative.

Complex sophisticated cars with lots of options are more likely to go wrong compared to the more basic ones.

The reliability of Honda's cars in the UK should be compared with Suzuki, Nissan, Hyundai, and Kia.

The reliability of Jaguar and Land Rover should be compared with Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, etc.

In short, it is very difficult for a luxury brand to do well in reliability charts that also include makers of very basic cars.

(And, for this very reason, Lexus should get top score for doing well in the list)
 
With the greatest of respect, you're unlikely to receive a truly impartial answer on a marque-specific form (whatever the marque). Both are excellent cars. The Jaguar is aluminium and a seriously under-rated car, with surprisingly good handling for a large car. However, without knowing your driving patterns, ie is it all on Jersey, or long continental trips, how relevant that is is unknown.

One issue that the Jaguar 5.0V8 can suffer from (both in Jaguar and Land Rover applications) is timing chain tensioner/chain wear), fixed, according to some, in approx 2015. Others dispute that. Jaguar did alter the tensioner and the chains and retro-fit is possible. However, early 4.7tt V8 MB engines (I know not the one that you're considering) also suffered similar problems but you don't hear so much about that, likewise the headbolt issue on the 6.2V8 MB. With the passing of time, it would seem that the older 4.2V8 Jag engine has proved to be more reliable in service

The Jag's styling, particularly from the rear, tended to polarise views when it was launched but seems to have become more 'accepted' now. I didn't like it originally but I do now.

In my view, when considering 10-year old cars the use and maintenance history of a particular car is of more importance than generic 'issues', so I would say drive both and see which better suits your use/needs/wishes?

Sorry, not much help :)
 
tonysmb said:
With the greatest of respect, you're unlikely to receive a truly impartial answer on a marque-specific form (whatever the marque). Both are excellent cars. The Jaguar is aluminium and a seriously under-rated car, with surprisingly good handling for a large car. However, without knowing your driving patterns, ie is it all on Jersey, or long continental trips, how relevant that is is unknown.

One issue that the Jaguar 5.0V8 can suffer from (both in Jaguar and Land Rover applications) is timing chain tensioner/chain wear), fixed, according to some, in approx 2015. Others dispute that. Jaguar did alter the tensioner and the chains and retro-fit is possible. However, early 4.7tt V8 MB engines (I know not the one that you're considering) also suffered similar problems but you don't hear so much about that, likewise the headbolt issue on the 6.2V8 MB. With the passing of time, it would seem that the older 4.2V8 Jag engine has proved to be more reliable in service

The Jag's styling, particularly from the rear, tended to polarise views when it was launched but seems to have become more 'accepted' now. I didn't like it originally but I do now.

In my view, when considering 10-year old cars the use and maintenance history of a particular car is of more importance than generic 'issues', so I would say drive both and see which better suits your use/needs/wishes?

Sorry, not much help :)
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To be fair I kind of knew asking this question on an MB forum I would experience this - but I've been a long time fan of Mercs, so I'd be the same. Always nice to hear opinions and a lot have been helpful.
I know this may sound bad, but I take the view that no matter what the car, they are all machines that could go wrong and require repairs (sometimes expensive) - that's not to say I don't care about the cost, but I do tend to do a fair bit of research (and ask a lot of questions on forums!).
It's interesting that you mention 6.2 headbolts - that was a question I asked of my indy before I bought the E63. He'd never had to do any and said he thought it was blown out of proportion..........lots in the USA (if you believe all you read) - but not exactly common in the UK.......and apologies to any of you that have had the issue.
Agree on the rear of the Jag - wasn't a fan at the start - but I didn't like the Bentley Continental either - but have grown to like it.
Whatever I buy, the history will be a major factor in the decision.
 
Unsure what the newer Lexus drive like. But my Dad has purchased the Lexus 400 LX on a V registration. Its the most comfortable car I have ever driven. The most comfortable car for ride quality I would say I have owned Is the w211 E55. Was like riding a cloud. But the Lexus 400 LX just blows it away for ride comfort.

It goes back to the basic science for me. Bigger tyre wall better ride comfort. Less tyre wall more sportier ride. Have you considered the newer shape Lexus. It's definitely a car I will consider when I part with my E63. For me the Eclass W212 rides just for my liking to be fair. If it were to ride softer it would affect the handling of the car so much. I was always of the impression the E63 W211 ride was amazingly comfortable or have I got that incorrect.
 
Bellow said:
Not what was said at the time - and that was before the V8 version existed.
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Understood.

My point was that the normal non-supercharged XJ would be closer to an S500L than the supercharged V8 (that the OP is test driving this week.

Agreed that the normal XJ won’t ride as smoothly as the normal S500 on normal wheels.

As I said right at the beginning, ride quality is subjective so it’s important to see if something feels right to the OP.
 
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mark_le_b said:
Maybe a silly question to ask on this forum, but here goes!
I am thinking of moving from my 06 W211 E63 into something perhaps a little newer (but comfortable)
Has anybody had experience of an XJ? The one I am looking at is a LWB supercharged one.
My other choice would be an S500 - similar age with the 5.5l engine.
I'd prefer an S63 but my budget won't get me one much newer than my current E63.
Has anyone come from Jag to Merc or vice versa?
Just wondered if there is any comparison.
Always been a Merc man - so not convinced I could move to Jag anyway!
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Funny you should say about an XJL Supersport as I have had one for 4 years and just listed mine for sale as I bought an E43 Estate recently to replace it with. Absolutely love it. I've had a few E Classes but never an S Class. Always loved the X351 XJ and I couldn't resist the value that the XJL Supersport offered at the price compared to other options I was looking for at the time.

I aluminium bodied XJ with that 5.0 V8 Supercharged engine mated to the 6 speed ZF auto is a great combo IMHO. Good fun to drive, cheap to buy, run and service. Very quiet, comfortable, spacious, safe, well spec'd so I don't have many or any downsides. I'd love to keep it but I'm rolling two cars into one which is why I have just bought the E43 Estate so it has to go.

Feel free to ask any questions I have got to know the car quite well after owning it for the last 4 years.
 
350cls said:
Unsure what the newer Lexus drive like. But my Dad has purchased the Lexus 400 LX on a V registration. Its the most comfortable car I have ever driven. The most comfortable car for ride quality I would say I have owned Is the w211 E55. Was like riding a cloud. But the Lexus 400 LX just blows it away for ride comfort.

It goes back to the basic science for me. Bigger tyre wall better ride comfort. Less tyre wall more sportier ride. Have you considered the newer shape Lexus. It's definitely a car I will consider when I part with my E63. For me the Eclass W212 rides just for my liking to be fair. If it were to ride softer it would affect the handling of the car so much. I was always of the impression the E63 W211 ride was amazingly comfortable or have I got that incorrect.
Click to expand...

The E63 is far more comfortable than the C63 I had for a short while (very poor roads and 19" wheels just didn't work for me and I couldn't change to 18" because of the brake disc size).
One of the most comfortable cars I've driven was an old D2 Audi S8 - but the W220 S classes were also good - hence thinking of a W221.
Not been in a Lexus to be honest - not sure there is many of those currently for sale here (its a very small choice)
 
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